Paynters

[trencrom]

The wife of Robert Curnow of Towednack (d. 1685) was Catherine Painter, christened on 22/6/1632 at St. Erth to Peter Painter and his wife Jane, who married there on 26/11/1631. Catherine had at least 7 other siblings: Mary, also chr. 22/6/1632, Mary chr. 4/9/1634, and Jane chr. 6/3/1635, all at St. Erth, also Elizabeth, Sibella (who married Mathew Stevens), Maudeyn & Jone.
Peter died at Towednack in April 1670 and Jane his wife in August 1678.

Peter evidently came from St Erth, and Paynters appear there in the heraldic visitation of 1620; however, and rather surprisingly, Peter does not appear in the visitation pedigree. Does anyone know if he was a member of the visitation family and if so, how he fits into it?

[Cornish Terrier]

My understanding is that Peter Painter (Paynter) was the son of John PAYNTER and Mary (nee BORLASE).
John PAYNTER was the son of George CAMBORNE and Ann (nee ANTRON).
Mary BORLASE was daughter of a Walter BORLASE.

This information came from some Paynter data I obtained many years ago and which I have not looked at for a long time.

However, there is detail in this 'Paynter Pedigree' that suggests some of the information was obtained from 'COLLECTANIA CORNUBIENSIA'.

I need to locate my information and try to go through it again to see if there is anything more I may glean from it.

But a little more information from those documents:-

Much of this revolves around St Erth and Gwinear so will probably interest many others looking at this query.

George CAMBORNE was also known as George PAYNTER and he was, apparently the son of John CAMBORNE and Eleanor (nee WILTON).

NOTES about John CAMBORNE are as follows:-

He was of 'Deverill in Gwinear'.
Also of 'Trelissic Walbert, St Erth'.

Quote - "Supposedly killed William PAYNTER (1st husband of Eleanor WILTON) and fled to Ireland.
He returned to St Erth taking the name of PAYNTER (thus becoming WILLIAM CAMBORNE als PAYNTER) along with the Arms, lands and wife of his victim.
Received grant of arms from Garter King of Arms July 1569.

Will dated 1591 (L).

It is unclear whether this man was previously married - one reference states that he married Eleanor c. 1558 however son George CAMBORNE als PAYNTER is supposed to have married in 1565 and was mentioned in 1561 as a 'son-in-law' of Joane ANTRON."

It would appear that this 'PAYNTER' family became involved at St Buryan.

I think you will find you have opened a rather large 'can of worms' here that I placed in the 'TOO HARD' category a long time ago.

With further data and resources now available I am willing to have another look at it but I can guarantee it will not be an easy task.

[Zenobia]

A George Painter of St. Ives died in 1636, leaving a wife Sibella. For some time now I've been thinking that these were likely parents for Peter (since he named a daughter Sibella), but have not been able to get any more info on this George. The bondsman on George's estate was Christopher Cock, gent, of St Ives, who also lived at St. Erth at various times.

[Cornish Terrier]

I tend to agree with this to a point.
Peter's daughter Sibella seems to have been a later child among the EIGHT DAUGHTERS with Mary and Catherine seemingly taking predominence over any other names.
JANE was the third name used from what I can see which is possibly suggestive of Mary and Catherine being the names of the mothers of Peter and Jane.
This fits with Peter being the son of John Paynter and MARY Borlase.

The St Ives scenario is also very interesting and is quite difficult to work out with any degree of certainty.
But I think we can quite possibly discount George and Sibella as Peter Painter's parents.

Whilst there is no available information (that I am aware of) to suggest a possible birthdate for George PAYNTER and no record seemingly available to tell us when he married Sibella we do have a couple of things to work with.

George died (probably) about June or July 1636 and left a widow Sibella.

11th June 1638 Peter TOMPKIN (Tonkin?) married SIBILL PAYNTER at St Ives

I believe this to be the widow of George PAYNTER

In 1663 at St Ives we find the following burial:-

Cibella wife of Peter Tonkin

I believe Peter Tonkin to be the man buried at St Ives in 1666.

I will leave that in the mix for now and see what thoughts some of you may have on it.

[cornishmaiden]

Eleanor or Elinor Wilton married to William Camborne Paynter was part of the large Wilton family from Lanreath.
William's parents were William Paynter & Alice Courtenay, Alice's Father being Richard Courtenay and his Father was Sir Edmund Courtenay of Deviock. These Courtenay's are part of the large Powderham castle dynasty with links back to Hugh de Courtenay and Margret de Bohun. Margret de Bohun has links to Edward I Henry II & III and William the Conqueror amongst others.
The Wilton's have some interesting links in there tree with a couple of links to the Courtenays and also William Wilton, born circa 1555, marrying Alice (Alsten) Dandy of Lanreath who was descended from the ancient baronial family of Daubenay's (D'Aunays, Dawnays) various spellings, who lived at Sheviock manor.
One question, as yet unanswered is why the Wilton family were marrying into these families. It has been suggested that perhaps they were living in 'Wilton' land at Lanreath and perhaps were part of the Courtenay family in some way and were using the name Wilton, which was apparantly common in Cornwall up to the 16th C.
Any comments on this mystery very welcome

[trencrom]

cornishmaiden, have sent you a PM in response to your post.

Also, what do you know about Eleanor Wilton's direct ancestry?

Thanks

Trencrom

[cornishmaiden]

There is a book 'The Wilton's of Cornwall' by Robert Wilton published by Phillimore ISBN 0 850337224 which covers all the point I made very fully. Unforunately the book is now out of print but they occastionally surface on Amazon (pricey though)
There appear to be 2 Elenor (Elinor Eleanor) Wilton's, one the daughter of John Wilton and one the daughter of John's son Edmund. I have several interests in this entire tree. My Wilton link is John-Edmund-Pascho and down through the line to present day, on my paternal side. However on my maternal side I am interested in the Eleanor Wilton through to Peter Paynter, Father of Catherine Painter who married into the Curnow's. All births are freely available on IGI and I have also been given matching info from local sources regarding the Wilton's as there is still a very strong local connection, the name pops up regularly in East Cornwall.
However, I am not sure on the early (1450) part of the tree, I am sure there is more to be uncovered as the Wilton's marry into many distingiushed families, the early Wilton's paid taxes , 1523 Loans 1525 Subsidies, the spelling here being Wylton.
The Eleanor Wilton / Curnow line is still very new to me and I am interested in hearing from anyone who has any documentation as to where Peter Paynter 1606 came from. Is he definitely part of the Ann Anron tree ?
I have also made an interesting discovery on the IGI at familysearch. William Camborne Paynter marriage to Elenor Wilson (must be Wilton), the father is listed as George Paynter but it lists Wiliiams birth as abt 1531 death 5th Jun 1611 at Whitegate Cheshire ?? It also states that the marriage took place at Daverham Cheshire ?? Is it possible that if William Paynter fled to Ireland he may have come back via Liverpool and married Elenor there.
Also has anyone done any reasearch to connect Archambaud II 'le Boucher' de Comborn to the Camborne Paynters.

LOADS OF QUESTIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cornishmaiden]

Also see this link for more info on Elenor Wilton's Wilton tree
jearnshaw.me.uk/tree/14852.htm

[trencrom]

Cornishmaiden, thanks for your responses. several questions arising from the same:
Do you know off hand which libraries may have the book you mentioned?
Secondly, as far as I know Peter's parentage has not been determined. I have long suspected a connection with the other St Erth Paynters, but as you doubtless know he does not appear in the visitation pedigree for the family. That omission may nor be conclusive, but it is problematic.

Since Peter was having children in 1630s at St Erth that indicates that he is of the generation of the grandchildren of William Camborne als Paynter and Eleanor Wilton.

There is the possibility too that he descends from a collateral line rather than from the visitation family.

(Did you see my PM? Check at the very top of the page after you log in for the link for these)

[trencrom]

i have just checked familysearch.

The William Paynter in Cheshire IGI entry you refer to is a patron submission, not an entry from the original registers via the LDS extraction programme.
I doubt very much that it is the same William Paynter. If Wiltons are a Cornwall family I don't think they'll be marrying anyone in Cheshire. And the groom's original surname "Camborne" is a Cornish name. Two Cornish families will not be marrying so far away from their home county at that time.

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi All,
A very quick response to part of this discussion.

I have tentatively (a few years ago) deduced the possibility that Peter Painter was the son of John Paynter and Mary (nee Borlase).

John Paynter, in turn, was the son of George Camborne and Ann (nee Antron).

Peter married Jane () at St Erth in 1631 and had eight known children of which two daughters, Catherine and Jone, married Curnows.

Best I can do for now - but that is my current (or ongoing) scenario.

Ian

[guyg02]

Painter Family: Peter Painter - probate 26 Jun 1671

I am happy that Peter Painter's parents were Mary Borlace and John Painter.

I cannot be sure exactly who John Painter was.

John born about 1573, fourth son of George Painter born about 1544 seems reasonable.

John's first two sons appear to be William bu 1601 and George ba Sep 1601 both at Towednack 

before his grandfather Walter Burlas leaves George a bequest in Nov 1601.

These forenames are what might be expected.

What concerns me a bit are the wills of David Painter -1623 of Towednack and his son William -1635 of Towednack.

David leaves:

poor of St. Erth 3 sh.
poor of Gwinear 3 sh.
poor of Towednack 3 sh.
eldest son: JOHN PAINTER 12 d.

The bequests to the poor of St Erth, Gwinear and Towednack seem appropriate 

- but what is known about David's eldest son John?

Could this John be the father of the William and George that appear in the 1601 Towednack Parish register?

[Cornish Terrier]

Could this John be the father of the William and George that appear in the 1601 Towednack Parish register?

I am not sure about that but I do have my doubts. I have not tried to read that Will of David Painter for a long, long time and I do not recall ever trying to transcribe the entire document. Looking at it now and I would guess a good half hour minimum would be needed to try and get my eyes used to the writing and then transcribe it.

There are a few 'chunks' missing from the page and at first glance it looks like there might be a line missing because of it. However, on closer inspection I think it just could be an illusion with the damage allowing a separation in the page. By following the actual writing it appears all but a few words might be lost.

My doubts about William bu. 1601 and George bp. 1601 being possible grandsons of David Painter by his son John might be unfounded. I cannot find any reference to Painter grandsons in the Will but it could be that George also died before 1623.

David certainly names 'eldest son John Painter' and he also mentions 'Julian the daughter of John Painter' which I assume to be a grandaughter. If John Painter had surviving sons I should have thought at least the eldest might have been mentioned in David's Will.

Not an easy family to piece together particularly given the paucity of surviving records for Towednack.

CT

[guyg02]

Many thanks - very helpful.

In 1635 David's son William leaves 10 L to Julian wife of Henry Odgers.

He also makes bequests to his Randall nephews and nieces 

- children of two of his sisters who were Randalls by 1623.

Another 1635 bequest might suggest a sister of Julian:

JOHN s/o ANN JENNINGS 10 L when 21

I agree that John Paynter husband of Ann Borlase is probably not the son of David Paynter bu July 1623.

[Cornish Terrier]

I really am going to have to try and find time to carefully read each of these Painter Wills.

From what work I did more than 20 years ago I had concluded that Florence and Ann, two of the daughters of David Painter, had each married Randell men - I expect that information should probably have come from David's Will. But on glancing through the Will of his son William I see the entry you refer to as 'John son of Anne Jennings' and wonder if my earlier impressions were incorrect.

Of course there is an alternative - Anne did indeed marrry a Randell but was then widowed and remarried to a Jennings. That will have to be given quite some thought and any conclusions will have to wait until I can get to read those Wills properly.

But wait!! - With no immmediate attempt to read David Painter's Will again I just glanced at the image on screen and there in the middle of the screen is this entry:-

It - I bequeath unto Anne Randall my daughter .....

Best I try and make some time a little later tonight to carefully read each of the relevent Wills!

CT