kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Sept 1, 2007 14:46:09 GMT -5
I have a John UREN who married Elizabeth MAY 21 JUL 1804 at Ludgvan. I believe his mother was Ann ? but I do not know which John UREN he is as there were two born about the same time. From the IGI Batch C020961 they are: 1) John UREN bap 05 APR 1772 to a Thoams UREN and ? 2) John UREN bap 05 MAR 1775 to John UREN and Mary GRENFELL Obviously the first would be obvious as the second the woman is Mary not Ann, however the IGI only lists one Thomas UREN marriage in Ludgvan in the right period, and that is to a Mary CARBESS on 04 FEB 1769 at Ludgvan. Still no Ann? The children of John UREN & Elizabeth MAY as I have them. William Hosking UREN bap 19 NOV 1804 Ludgvan Samuel UREN bap 27 NOV 1807 Ludgvan Elizabeth UREN bap 21 JUN 1811 Ludgvan Joseph UREN bap 27 DEC 1813 Ludgvan John UREN bap 13 MAY 1816 Ludgvan Thomas Rapson UREN bap 20 MAY 1825 St. Ives Mary Jane UREN bap 4 DEC 1825 Ludgvan Elizabeth MAY's mother was Catherine RAPSON so that explains Thomas Rapson UREN's middle name. I feel that William Hosking UREN's middle name must be a clue, but I have not connected it.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 1, 2007 15:25:55 GMT -5
Welcome back. I have the marriage of John Uren to Elizabeth May in my database but, so far, have only Samuel as one of their children. Have already spotted some anomalies with some of this information but cannot work on it now as I need some sleep and get back to work in about 8 hours. Will try to look into it when I get home tonight. Prior to bed I will take a quick look at the other posting I notice you have provided.
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Post by cornishpasty on Sept 4, 2007 6:09:32 GMT -5
Hi Kernow,
Don't know whether this will help but I have some documents sent to me a while ago whilst I was searching for my John UREN.
This person was doing a one name study for UREN. I can send the documents to you via email because I would not know how to attach them to this message.
Please PM me with your email address and I will email the documents to you.
Like I said, I don't know if they contain what you are looking for but I do know that I came across the John UREN and Elizabeth MAY marriage information months ago, almost mistook them for mine. There is a list of baptisms, marriages, etc. etc. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Meanwhile I will search my lot to see if I can find anything relevant.
CP ;D
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 4, 2007 11:01:53 GMT -5
Cornishpasty - would appreciate you sending me that information also (if you have not already done so and I have misplaced it ) Meanwhile I will take a quick look and see if I have anything to help in the short term. Cornish Terrier
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 4, 2007 11:34:35 GMT -5
A search through IGI, combined with P&T Marriages for Ludgvan shows nothing that will help.
I would suspect that John UREN was from elsewhere, possibly St Ives or Lelant, but have not yet been able to track him down.
There is also a bit of a concern about the list of children supplied as belonging to John and Elizabeth (nee May) given a couple of rather large gaps between baptisms.
I will wait until Cornishpasty has supplied some further information and then have another look at this.
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Post by cornishmaid on Sept 12, 2007 6:12:59 GMT -5
Hi all School holidays over ;D so hopefully should be able to get back to the important stuff This particular family is also related to me, so in the next few days will see if I can find anything which might help a bit. Have just had a quick look for information. In the 1841 Census, living in the Stennack, St Ives, is the Cook family. With them are: Elizabeth Uren, mother in law, widow, aged 64, born Ludgvan Thomas Uren, brother in law, Unmarried, Male, age 25, Tin Miner, born St Ives. Elizabeth Cook is aged 40 and born in Ludgvan (ie the Elizabeth Uren bapt 21 June 1811 in Ludgvan). This would connect the 1811 baptism of Elizabeth and the 1825 baptism of Thomas Rapson Uren in St Ives. In 1851, Elizabeth and Thomas Uren are still with the Cook family, aged 64 and 25 respectively. Thomas Rapson Uren married Mary Ann Nicholas on 12 June 1852 by Banns and his father is listed as "John Uren, Labourer". One more quick point of interest before I go clean the house is that my Great Grandmother, Mary Uren (descendent of John Uren), called one of her children "Catherine Rapson". This would seem to confirm her connection with the same family, ie Elizabeth May's mother.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 12, 2007 14:23:07 GMT -5
I am that tired now that I cannot concentrate although I have had a brief look at things. What I did find was something else of more interest to myself that I seemed to have no record of:- James TREWELLA Uren bn. 09 Jun 1830, bp. 26 Sep 1832 at Ludgvan s/o Henry JAMES and Christian UREN (IGI) I will obviously need to pursue this but will try and return to your particular problem tonight when I feel much more rested.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 13, 2007 15:30:01 GMT -5
My apologies Team - will try hard to get back on to this one tonight. Another long day and I forget that some queries take longer to answer than others.
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Post by cornishmaid on Sept 14, 2007 15:04:37 GMT -5
Well... have been going round in circles here for the last couple of days trying to find something more I am assuming Elizabeth May was born circa 1787 (according to the census) and was married age 17(ish). On the further assumption that John Uren was born around this time, and on the further assumption that his mother may have been Ann, I have only found a John Uren baptised on 25 November 1787 at Gulval, and another baptised on 6 May 1787 at St Buryan. On both the father is stated as James Uren, but with no mother listed. John Uren was, it appears, deceased before the 1841 census. Although his wife and son were living in St Ives in 1841, I can find no burials for a John Uren, at the right age, in St Ives. Did their daughter Elizabeth marry someone living in St Ives, and hence her widowed mother and younger brother moved in with them when her father died? See.. am going round in circles
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 14, 2007 16:27:11 GMT -5
M'dear - it is seeming to be a rather large circle with little in the way of signposts and no 'off ramps' that I can find. There will be an answer and we will find it - but not right now. I have to get some sleep before work so will try, as with other notes, to tackle this again tonight or in the next couple of days. Anything you might find - please post and let me review it and I will try to think of some other avenues that might help us track down the elusive blighter.
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Post by azenor on Sept 19, 2007 12:50:57 GMT -5
I too descend from John UREN who married Elizabeth MAY 21 JUL 1804 at Ludgvan and am also stuck identifying John. (BTW - my 2x great granny was Catherine Rapson UREN.)
If it is any help I did discount John UREN bap 05 Apr 1772, father Thomas, as the baptism record only states the father's name. Typically that indicates that the father was a gentleman and given the occupations of the children of John and Elizabeth I thought this unlikely.
You say you believe his mother to be Ann - what's the thinking behind that?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 19, 2007 13:48:55 GMT -5
Hello 'azenor' - you seem to have crept in under my guard. WELCOME to this site and I appreciate your input and thoughts. I will try to keep this very brief for now as I am requiring food and sleep. I fear that you have discounted this man unfairly - even if he does prove to be the wrong man. The fact that a mother's name was not recorded in baptismal record really has nothing o do with 'social status'. If you check Parish Registers for Madron, Gulval, Ludgvan and a number of other West Penwith Paishes you will find that the name of the mother is very rarely, if at all, mentioned in baptismal records in the earl days. Gulval and Madron PRs really only show the name of the mother from1813 onwards - as do some other Parishes. The fact that a mother was not named at baptism really has nothing to do with 'social status'. In fact - to oppose your comment regarding 'gentlemen' I might add that, looking through Madron and Gulval PRs prior to 1813, the only time (usually) the mother's name is mentioned in a baptismal record is when the child is that of a Gentleman or more 'upper class' man than the general populace of the area. Look forward to further conversation with you and hope to be able to help you with your research.
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Post by azenor on Sept 19, 2007 14:31:46 GMT -5
Excellent - then I have been misled and this then opens up more possibilities. Thank you for your help.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 19, 2007 15:02:05 GMT -5
You are most welcome and please keep involved in this 'chase' as I also have a possible connection to this man. (I certainly have connections to part of the Uren family). But this is what this Forum is all about ... I also forgot to mention in my last reply:- There are many Parish Registers for West Cornwall where the Marriage entry only states the name of the groom. This all changed from 1813 but, prior to that, many PRs do not state the name of the Bride (unless she was either (in comparison) upper class or she was marrying someone 'worth mentioning'. (I may have phrased this incorrectly but ...) Look forward to your next and we shall see what we can do for you.
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Post by cornishmaid on Sept 19, 2007 15:32:55 GMT -5
Ha, another cousin! Very nice to meet you ;D We think Ann may be John's mother because of the census information in 1841. Living at Street An Garrow in St Ives is Samuel Uren (John Uren's son) and his family. With them is Ann Uren, ie: UREN Samuel M 30 Shoe Maker Cornwall UREN Kitty F 20 Cornwall UREN Martha F 2 Cornwall UREN Ann F 80 Cornwall We are going by the hypothesis at the moment (for lack of any other clues) that Ann was Samuel's grandmother, and hence John Uren's mother. If she was a different relation then that throws that theory out of the window , but at the moment we can't be sure who she is for definite. Be great to have your input on this as well.
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