Croftodden

[rogerC41]

Hi All

My grandfather, Robert soloman Curnow was born 1858, Towednack and emigrated to Australia December?1878.
Recently throwing out stuff, among some old papers relating to him I came across reference to Croftodden.
Question: was this a farm in the Towednack area.?

roger

[zibetha]

(new attempt)



www.cornwallheritage.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Victoria-Ballarat-Newsletter-December-2023.pdf

Zib

more to follow

[sue]

Not come across a Croftodden, but there was a Chytodden in Towednack, various references including 1841 Enumeration District 11 "All the east part of the Parish of Towednack as far as the main road running north and south through the parish including Treveja.", Folio 9 pages 8 & 9 listed next to Bussow/Bussa, followed by Penderleath. Berrymans, Quicks, Mitchells, Martins. And Chytodden listed again after Penderleath again in Folio 10 page 12. Also not far from your family at Cripplesease in later years.

1873 Kellys John Mitchell @ Chytodden.

Chy - house? Croft - grazing land?

Chytodden farm, run by Hollow family, these days can be viewed at postcode TR26 3AT if you want to see it on Googlemaps.

Your Robert Curnow I believe the carman arriving Sydney 12 Jan 1879 on the Northampton....

[donne]

A quick Google pulls up a load of references to Chytodden Farm, including some posts within this Penwith Genealogy board. It was included as part of the sale of the Porthia Estate (https://west-penwith.org.uk/porthia.htm ) in which its described as a 62 acre farm. And there is even a 1970 home movie on the British Film Institute website (https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-chytodden-farm-at-towednack-1970-online ) in which the farmer talks about his prize-winning dairy herd, and including, if you are interested, some shots of the farm buildings and general situation.

There seems to be a few 'croft' names in the neighbourhood including the ancient monument site at Sperris Croft on Beagletodn Downs to west of Chytodden.

[rogerC41]

Thanks Donne and thanks Sue and thanks...much makes sense once I replace Croftodden by Chytodden

[zibetha]

Hi, Roger,

I found some terms that might help clarify the situation.

RE: Chytodden
CHITODDEN, i.q. CHETOADN
CHE-TOADN, -TODDEN, ? i.q. CHENTON. Toad’s house, or h. on the hill, Pr.

RE: Croftodden
C. TOTTAN, ? the lay (todn) croft; ? hill (dun) croft


Source:
The Salamanca Corpus: A Glossary of Cornish
Names (1869-1871
Copyright © 2014– DING, The Salamanca Corpus, Universidad de Salamanca

gredos.usal.es/bitstream/handle/10366/123981/SC_J.Bannister_Cornish%20Names_1869_1871.pdf;jsessionid=458A3366386516AB4C9BD23BB1F2EA5A?sequence=2

I think your family’s reference to Croftodden is to a small plot of land or garden, possibly tenant-farmed and does not necessarily include a dwelling. As the term is a general one, I don’t think you will find it as a place name marked on a map. I do suspect it is associated with Chytodden in Towednack. On a hill, yes, frogs/toads? Maybe 😊

commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Looking_towards_Chytodden_-_geograph.org.uk_-_6651989.jpg

Zib

[donne]

Hi Zib
I'm not sure I buy the 'toad' etymology you suggest. It seems an uneasy mixture of Cornish and English, bearing in mind that my Cornish dictionary tells me that the Cornish for frog/toad is 'cronek'! I had a look at the source you referenced and I noted that it also had an entry for BEAGLE-TODDEN or –TON, shepherd’s pasture (ton), or hill (dun), which name looks very similar to Beaglestodn Down, adjacent to Chytodden. So Chytodden = house on the hill/pasture seems much more likely to me.

And RogerC41, do the papers relating to your grandfather give any clue as to his association with Croftrodden? Like Zib, I wondered if it was small plot of land, possible an intake of common land on the hill and brought into cultivation for a short time.

[rogerC41]

Hi All
Sort of apologies to you since my post at the start of this thread was unnecessary or would have been if I had any sort of memory.
CT discovered Chytodden for me in a post (or possibly correspondence between he and I) about three years ago.
Back then Chytodden was disguised as Shetoding.

Based on the 1861 census it seems to have been 1 house, 3 families
Chytodden,1,Richard Uren,Head,M,31,,Tin Miner,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,,Ann Uren,Wife,M,,39,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Elizabeth Ann Uren,Dau,,,6,Scholar,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Annie Uren,Dau,,,3,Scholar,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Richard Uren,Son,,1,,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,John Quick,Boardr,U,22,,Tin Miner,Towednack Cornwall,,
Folio 101 Page 7

25,Chytodden,1,John Mitchell,Head,M,49,,Tin Miner & Farmer,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Mary Mitchell,Wife,M,,52,Wife,Lelant Cornwall,,
,,,John Mitchell,Son,U,18,,Farmer Son,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Matthew Mitchell,Son,U,16,,Farmer Son,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,William Mitchell,Son,U,14,,Farmer Son,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Simon Mitchell,Son,U,11,,Scholar,Towednack Cornwall,,
26,Chytodden,1,John Hollow,Head,M,23,,Tin Miner,St Just Cornwall,,
,,,Mary Hollow,Wife,M,,26,,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,,John Quick Hollow,Son,,4,,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,James Quick Hollow,Son,,2,,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Paul Quick Hollow,Son,,1,,,Towednack Cornwall,,

I was expecing to find a Trewhalla.

roger

[rogerC41]

Slightly of thread
Sue wrote: "Your Robert Curnow I believe the carman arriving Sydney 12 Jan 1879 on the Northampton...."
Hi Sue---yes Robert the carman which I presume means horse & cart man, though why he should be so (self?) described I m not sure.
His brother John who came out 2 years later was very much a horse man.
He looked set for life as chief farrier for Yellow Cabs in the early 1900's but his sure income dwindled as Yellow Cabs switched from hay to petrol to fuel/feed their cabs.
He is the one who named his house Chylasson.