George Richards born 1723 Paul

[Sarch]

I received an email from Joseph De Rijck living in Canada re an ancestor found via DNA

The ancestor is George Richards born 1723 in Paul

I can find a George Richards baptised 1 June 1723 father John in Paul on the OPC site

However I dont have him in my database can anyone help


His email below

After discovering your name on a genealogy website
I am taking the liberty of sending you this email with
regards to the Richards surname in Cornwall.
Several years ago I discovered, via Family Tree DNA,
that a George Richards born in Paul, Cornwall in 1723 had,
apparently, a DNA link with me.
Please see the details below:

www.lostlangtons.co.uk/other/langton/images/phylogentic/J2a3d-Tree-Feb2014.pdf

On pages 3 and 4: Kits 268280 and N71370.

I have tried, over the years, to discover more detailed
information regarding this match but to no avail.

Would you have any additional information on the George Richards
in question and/or his descendants?

Thank you for your attention and looking forward to hearing
from you, at your convenience.

Sincerely,

Joseph De Rijck
Québec, Canada

Regards


Sarch

[zibetha]

That is a challenge and I have no easy response. My father's family ventured to the USA. This week I have had the first match on his mother's side to the De Clerck family with a woman in Canada.

from Zib

[spikeharwood]

This is about Y-DNA not autosomal DNA. Joseph has had a Y-DNA test done at FTDNA and discovered that he’s in haplogroup J2a. Y-DNA is a test of our father’s father’s etc DNA until we get back to an ancient ancestor whose DNA mutated into this haplogroup from further up the “tree of mankind”. All the other kit’s listed are in J2 including #268280.
All Y-DNA testers are asked to identify their oldest known male ancestor. Joseph has someone b 1510, kit 268280 has George Richards b 1723. I wonder if Joseph has emailed all the kit owners in the haplogroup?
Is the kit 268280 managed by you (on behalf of a male relative with the Richards surname)? Otherwise how does he have your contact details?
I’m not sure that he understands how Y-DNA works. It is entirely different to autosomal DNA (ie matching cousins from up to four or five generations back.) He is most unlikely to have an autosomal DNA match with you. Any information on George Richards is irrelevant to him because if you go back much further surnames disappear so he’s never going to connect him in a tree to his ancestor. And the only value he would get from George’s descendants is if he’s willing to trace the male Richards line down to the present and get them to test their Y-DNA.

[Sarch]

Hi Spikesharwood

I descend from Robert Wallish and Angnes Kinsman (St Just in Penwith) and also Thomas Quick and Sinoby - there are quite a few Richards connecting to my tree and that is how Joseph found me re George Richards.


I am rather lost in the DNA tecnicalities.


My male cousin had a DNA test done Haplogroup R-FT122000 Kit Number IN92998 and he lodged it on the Wallace/Wallis DNA project
But he did not seem to get anywhere that I know of as he died within about a month after sharing the news with me. His first DNA test was just the basic one and then he had the more extensive test done and the Haplogroup changed from R-M269 to R-FT122000.

www.familytreedna.com/groups/wallace-dna/about/background


I have two Wallis grandparents and my cousin falls into the unknown side of my Wallis tree

Regards

Sarch

[breydel]

Apr 9, 2024 12:41:37 GMT -5 zibetha said:

That is a challenge and I have no easy response. My father's family ventured to the USA. This week I have had the first match on his mother's side to the De Clerck family with a woman in Canada.

from Zib

The surname De Clerck is referred to over 300 times

in a pdf I regularly consult to check my De Rijck, De Rijcke,

De Rycke data.

This very detailed pdf covers the Erembodegem village

which is now part of Aalst in Flemish Brabant, Belgium.

If I could be of any help with your De Clerck side of

your family I would be most happy to be of some help.



Joseph

[zibetha]

Thank you, Joseph,

Those of us with part of our family roots in what is now Benelux are descendants of not just Cornish miners but of other ancestors who made decisions similar to our Cornish ones to move on to other countries. My Cornish miner ancestors at least spoke the language and had a reasonable expectation of their names being recorded somewhat correctly on local records.

I do appreciate your help--

Thanks

Zib

[zibetha]

Back to Sarch and Spike,

I do know that Y DNA is different than what I can get on my Autosomal results. Then, I need to say that I seem to be a member of a variety of "groups" if you will accept that term, because I have some very distinct ancestor lines that don't quite go over the cliffs into endogamy but begin approach it in terms of pedigree collapse. I don't see overlap on my own lines until they arrive here other than extremely distant.

What I have found after 10 plus years into exploring my DNA results, is that when I get results that are often much closer than I expect, either my match and/or I share a pair of ancestors. That seems to reduce the predicted relationship level a good 5+ generations at minimum.

To end, I could not have gone to this point without the help of you and kind cousins who speak the languages I cannot.

Zib

[donne]

A degree of endogamy seems almost inevitable in remote Cornish parishes where many marriages, particularly prior to the nineteenth century, seem, to involve couples from the same parish. I understand that this can lead to fragmentation in an autosomal DNA match - add up all the small segments and the sum indicates a much closer kinship than is actually the case.

I have been most disappointed with my Y-DNA results which trace the male descent - the surname line in simple terms. Only one match with a possible link to a male ancestor in the historical era - much of the rest seem to spurious or possibly relate to some Norse ancestor lost in the mists of time.

[breydel]

Apr 9, 2024 17:35:54 GMT -5 spikeharwood said:

This is about Y-DNA not autosomal DNA. Joseph has had a Y-DNA test done at FTDNA and discovered that he’s in haplogroup J2a. Y-DNA is a test of our father’s father’s etc DNA until we get back to an ancient ancestor whose DNA mutated into this haplogroup from further up the “tree of mankind”. All the other kit’s listed are in J2 including #268280.
All Y-DNA testers are asked to identify their oldest known male ancestor. Joseph has someone b 1510, kit 268280 has George Richards b 1723. I wonder if Joseph has emailed all the kit owners in the haplogroup?
Is the kit 268280 managed by you (on behalf of a male relative with the Richards surname)? Otherwise how does he have your contact details?
I’m not sure that he understands how Y-DNA works. It is entirely different to autosomal DNA (ie matching cousins from up to four or five generations back.) He is most unlikely to have an autosomal DNA match with you. Any information on George Richards is irrelevant to him because if you go back much further surnames disappear so he’s never going to connect him in a tree to his ancestor. And the only value he would get from George’s descendants is if he’s willing to trace the male Richards line down to the present and get them to test their Y-DNA.

'' And the only value he would get from George’s descendants is if he’s willing to trace the male Richards line down to the present and get them to test their Y-DNA. ''

Precisely. The results of his ' distant cousin ' in Australia are what I obtained from FTDNA a while ago. Not sure of how I should interpret them as I am not well read in DNA matters So far, Wayne Richards is the only 0 distance match I have.
 > Genetic Distance of

> 0

> at the

> Y-25

> test level

> Based on a Genetic Distance of 0 at the Y-25 test level,

> Joseph De Rijck and Mr. Wayne Leslie Richards are estimated

> to share a common paternal line ancestor who was, with a 95% probability,

> born between 1400 and 1950 CE. The most likely year is rounded to 1750 CE.

> This date is an estimate based on genetic information only.

The mystery remains between this ' relative ' in time and space

[donne]

I'm not sure how convinced I would be by an exact match at the Y-25 level. I see that I have 23 'exact' matches on FTDNA at the Y-25 level;18 of those matches have also tested up to and beyond the Y-67 level but only three still hold good at Y-67. Of those three, the one with the lowest genetic distance (now 3 at Y-67) is the only one with a convincing surname match. (Apparently, a genetic distance of 3 at the Y-67 level implies a most recent common ancestor in the timeframe 1300-1850 with the most probable year 1600)

[breydel]

Apr 14, 2024 14:22:46 GMT -5 donne said:

I'm not sure how convinced I would be by an exact match at the Y-25 level. I see that I have 23 'exact' matches on FTDNA at the Y-25 level;18 of those matches have also tested up to and beyond the Y-67 level but only three still hold good at Y-67. Of those three, the one with the lowest genetic distance (now 3 at Y-67) is the only one with a convincing surname match. (Apparently, a genetic distance of 3 at the Y-67 level implies a most recent common ancestor in the timeframe 1300-1850 with the most probable year 1600)

I feel myself slipping away from my FTDNA results as time goes by, retaining only ' proveable ' results with some members in my family tree  Strangely enough, after I obtained a list, albeit a short one, of some ' matches ' nothing seems to be transpiring as if I have reached ' the end '

[spikeharwood]

Joseph and Roger, I feel your frustration over the Y-DNA results. I’ve had my father’s BigY-700 done and also his brother at Y-500. After seven years all we have to show is one match at Y67 with a GD=6. Based on my ancestral lines I’m 65% Cornish and 12.5% German. Unfortunately it’s the Germanic line that has provided the Y-DNA.
But I do have some good news on the Y-DNA front. My 2xgreat grandfather was Philip Hocking of an extensive and well researched Camborne Hocking line. We can get back to William Huchyn b 1430. I’d always wanted to get one of the Hocking descendants tested and when one of my 4th cousins was passing through town late last year and wanted to meet up, I just happened to have a Y37 kit!
Several months later I got the results. As you may know there are several Y-DNA Projects on FTDNA. The day I got the results I was asked by one of the Project admins to join the kit up, which I did. They had already done considerable work on tracking down a possible common ancestor.
They discovered several surname lines all tracing back to this common ancestor from sometime in the period of the Roman Empire. At that point an existing branch split in two and ours wandered off to England. It splits again before surnames were a thing and the men in that new line went on to take the names Hocking, Pomeroy and Glidden amongst others. The unique thing about this group is that on one of the DNA markers (or STR’s) the marker value has reduced from 12 to 8 thus giving that group its own DNA mutation.
Oddly enough this mutation shows up in the Y12 test results (although I think the minimum test that can be bought these days is Y37). We know of several different Hocking haplogroups with the surname appearing in separate locations independent of each other. But we can prove that someone has the Camborne line by checking just the one marker.

I’ve added part of the results for the project. The marker in question is on the right with the marker value of 8 showing for the matches.

[spikeharwood]

We already had four men with the Hocking surname who had tested and were in the same group. With some being more difficult than others, we were able to slot all four into the Camborne Hocking Tree. They are shown in the diagram with the kit I manage on the left. Interestingly they all have Ralph Hocking as their common ancestor with Ralph being a few generations down from William Huchyn.

[Sarch]

Hi Spikeharwood

Would it be possible to lodge my cousins y-DNA test on FTDNA?

Regards

Sarch

[spikeharwood]

Sarch. It looks as if he's there already. You can open an account at FTDNA for free and join the Project if you wish.