Furze (again)

[tonymitch]

Hi everyone. Been a bit 'off the board' for some time now for various reasons, but now I'm back with a really weird one. Whilst tracing John Williams Furze I find the following on the Australian genealogy site www.theycametheystayed.com..."John Williams Furze was baptized on 1 May 1825 in Paul Parish. His father was a fisherman at the time.
So, John Williams Furze whose father was Uter Furze, is in Down Under and stayed there.

This morning I discovered another John Williams Furze who was born on 27th Sept 1892 and was baptised on 7th March 1893 in St Buryan and that his father was John Williams Furze and his mother was Eliz (Cornwall OPC). However he was registered six months later in Penzance during the March quarter of 1893 (Free BMD).

This looks like the son of John who was born in 1825, making Dad a healthy and energetic 68 year old, who emigrated to Australia. Why return? Why have him registered in Penzance? Why have him baptised in St Buryan?

Free BMD also lists the death of a John Williams Furze aged 14 during the June quarter of 1907. Is this John 2?...looks like it. What happened then to John 1? Why hoof it off back to Oz?

This raises more and more questions.

Tony M

[Cornish Terrier]

Sorry Tony - but I think you are chasing the wrong rabbit here! And I am afraid you are also looking on the wrong Continent for the rabbit hole.

I do not currently have anything on John Williams Furze of 1825 in my database except for his baptism - but that does not really matter at the moment because he is not actually involved in your current problem!

There was another John Williams Furze baptised at Sancreed 14th July 1863 to William Furze and Elizabeth Jane Williams. This William Furze was a younger brother to the John Williams Furze above and was baptised at St Just in 1839.

William Furze married Elizabeth Jane Williams at Sancreed 7th April 1860 and had 11 children with John Williams being the 2nd child and eldest son.

John Williams Furze married Eliza Hosking in the Penzance Registration District in the December Qtr of 1888. As far as I can tell there was just one child and if you check the GRO Index you will find that the mother's name is recorded as 'Hosking'.

And now for something to save you some sleepless nights!

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995 (Ancestry)

FURZE John Williams of St. Just-in-Penwith Cornwall miner died 5 February 1897 at Moddesfontein-extension limited South African republic Administration Bodmin 24 July to Eliza Furze widow Effects L113 8s.

Once I located the Probate information I then checked the South African records on FamilySearch. The following link will take you to the image of his death record.

www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3F-ZF4P?i=387&cc=2520237

It is not in English but I can read enough to outline the details:-

John Williams Furze native of Cornwall died 5th February 1897 at Moddesfontein Extension dist Boksburg age 33 years 11 months
Parents were William Furze and Elizabetha Jane Furze (maiden name Williams)
Wife was Eliza Furze (born Hosking)
One child John Williams Furze born 27 Dec 1893

The interesting thing for me out of all of this is that I am currently working on the Eddy families and I just discovered that Eliza Hosking was the daughter of Thomas Hosking and Constance Eddy who married at St Just in 1860.

After the death of John Williams Furze his widow remarried to Richard Leggo in 1898. Richard and Eliza Leggo can be found in the 1901 Census at Heamoor in Madron along with stepson John W Furze.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

So, John Williams Furze whose father was Uter Furze, is in Down Under and stayed there.

Tony - just a point on the above comment. After searching the Australian Indexes and after taking a glance through the information via the link you provided I am certain that John Williams Furze (1825) never came to Australia at all. At least if he did then he certainly left no 'footprint' in the BDM records.

I also think you have misinterpreted some of the information provided via that link. For example - there is a record of a John Furze who was baptised at St Just in Roseland 11th January 1740. He most certainly could not have been in Australia as the First Fleet didn't arrive until nearly 40 years later!!
Likewise there is the Jane Furze a few entries above this John of 1740. Jane apparently married John Dunn in 1803 and was still alive at the 1851 Census. The information provided explicitly states that John Dunn's death was registered in the June Qtr of 1851 in Cornwall and that there are several possible death entries for Jane between 1857 and 1860.

So many of the entries are there because they have some sort of link to those that did come to Australia and not because they all came out here. In fact the number of Furze/Furse people that did come to Australia is not really that many.

CT

[tonymitch]

Thanks C.T. You're correct as always (well nearly!) My ferret was sent down the hole and the resulting kerfuffle produced several rabbits some of which darted into other adjacent holes in the warren but still left one searching for another hole.

John Williams Furze (1863) is already known to me. Not only was he killed in the mine accident in 1897, he had also been accused of murder! Elizabeth eventually returned to Cornwall and married John Leggo who was the Landlord of the Star Inn Fore Street St Just. Elizabeth Jane Furze (formerly Williams) lived with them until returning to S.Africa in 1903 (WHY???). She died in 1919 Atherton Lancashire.

The Child John Williams Furze is obviously the child I was having trouble locating who died aged 14. I knew about him, but became confused (very easy these days) with all these multiple John Williams Furzes'

The John Williams Furze I'm having difficulty with is the one born 1825 He was the eldest son of Uter Furze (1806) and Mary Tonkin (1803). All I can find about him was that he was born! Nothing else. I incorrectly attributed John (1882) to him as his son whereas John (1892) was already known to me as son of John who died in S.Africa. In fairness the thing which has thrown me off course is the "theycametheystayed" web site which definitely puts John in Australia.

Incidentally, I have a total of 4 John Williams Furzes' and one John William Furze along with 9 further Johns.

On a completely different tack, I have a watercolour sketch of The Star Inn in St Just mentioned abve on my F.B. Tony Mitchell Artist page (@ tonymitch.art)

[Cornish Terrier]

In fairness the thing which has thrown me off course is the "theycametheystayed" web site which definitely puts John in Australia.

Sorry Tony but I addressed this comment in my last message when I outlined your misconceptions/misinterpretations about "theycametheystayed". That site is about connections to families who had family members come to Australia and remain. The fact that someone is mentioned on that site is not evidence that that particular person came to Australia at all.

I repeat, as an example, the mention of the John Furze baptised at St Just in Roseland in 1740 as per this:-

I also think you have misinterpreted some of the information provided via that link. For example - there is a record of a John Furze who was baptised at St Just in Roseland 11th January 1740. He most certainly could not have been in Australia as the First Fleet didn't arrive until nearly 40 years later!!
Likewise there is the Jane Furze a few entries above this John of 1740. Jane apparently married John Dunn in 1803 and was still alive at the 1851 Census. The information provided explicitly states that John Dunn's death was registered in the June Qtr of 1851 in Cornwall and that there are several possible death entries for Jane between 1857 and 1860.

These two entries appear just above your John Furze of 1825 yet they could not possibly have been in Australia. Likewise I say the same about John Williams Furze (1825). I also do not know what became of him after the 1841 Census but from what I have been able to ascertain he did NOT come to Australia.

Give John disappeared around 1841 or soon after I would suggest you consider firstly South Africa and possibly the US given records for that period are rather inadequate. But you should also consider the mines of Mexico and Chile which were destinations for many Cornishmen around that time.

CT

[tonymitch]

Yep, I'm aware that, as you say, I misinterpreted the web site info, I was simply attempting to explain why I had made such a dismal error. Please don't think that I was suggesting you were in the least bit inaccurate.

I have fairly extensive info re the Furze family in the USA and John Williams Furze does not appear to one of them. It was in fact the first place I looked as almost all of his nephews went there.

Another reason why I started looking Australia-wise was due to another report on the "theycametheystayed" site. This is regarding John William (minus the 's') Furze ....."John William Furze immigrated to South Australia between 1881 and 1882. He may have travelled with his half brother Henry William Pauley. One of John's relatives either William or James Eddy born 1882 (son of Elizabeth Jane Fruze born 1860) also came to South Australia."....

John William was the nephew of John Williams Furze and the "William or James Eddy" was also a great nephew, "William or James" (whatever his name was) being the son of Elizabeth Jane, daughter of William, John Williams younger brother. There is some problem differentiating William and James Eddy.

I haven't thought of looking S.Africa, but I think you are correct and it's something I shall look at.

[Cornish Terrier]

The mist begins to clear!! The John William(s) Furze supposedly arriving about 1881 or 1882 was the son of Matthew Thomas Furze and his wife Grace Warren. This is the John who married Elizabeth Ivey at Mount Lofty in 1882 and William H Pauley was certainly his half-brother.

Now, the mention of 'William or James Eddy born 1882' having also come to Australia - The children of James and Elizabeth Jane (Furze) Eddy were James born 1882, William born 1887 and Peter born 1897 and died 1902. There was also an adopted daughter - Ethel Collins born London about 1893.

So the reference in "theycametheystayed" would appear to mean James given he was actually born in 1882. But I wonder if that is actually correct ......

There is a marriage in South Australia 24th August 1916 for a William Eddy age 30 son of James Eddy to Agnes Mary Louisa Bauerochse. The age fits fairly closely to the son of James and Elizabeh Jane Eddy as noted above although that does not necessarily mean it is the same man.
The only marriage for a James Eddy in SA was in 1885 so too early and also his father was Stephen Eddy.

In reference to the marriage of William Eddy in 1916 - this is certainly NOT the son of James and Elizabeth Jane. This particular William was born at Prospect, South Australia in 1886 to James Eddy and Mary Ann (nee Miller).

If James or William Eddy did come to South Australia then any reference to them is beyond the resources I have available at the moment.

And don't forget when pursuing the elder John Williams Eddy that Mexico and Chile are other likely places he could have gone.

CT

[tonymitch]

The problem of differentiating between James and William Eddy hasn't been something I've needed to battle with until now. The story is that way back in about 1986 on my first visit to Cornwall I met an old lady who was well into her 90s who claimed to have been delivered by "Nurse Furze", Elizabeth Jane's mother (b 1844) She told me that "There was a Furze who married an Eddy". This ladies companion a Mr's Hocking said his name was James, the old lady said it was William.

A letter from a Wally Furze in the USA confirmed that the man who married Elizabeth Jane was William and that they had had a son named James. I later had communication from a G-Granddaughter in Australia to say that the man who married Elizabeth Jane was indeed James Eddy, that their son, also James, had married Gracie Johns and they had a daughter Grace Furze Eddy. I now see that whoever put the info into the website "They came..." also had difficulty in deciding on the name of Elizabeth Jane's husband. As their G-Granddaughter has said that his name was James, conformed by her mother Elizabeth J's Granddaughter I'm going with that.

Tony M

[Cornish Terrier]

It was certainly James Eddy who married Elizabeth Jane Furze. The marriage was in the December Qtr of 1881 but I am yet to work out whether it was at the Registry Office at Penzance or in one of the Chapels.
As stated in an earlier message there were three children from the marriage plus an adopted daughter. The Census and the GRO Index confirm the parents as James and Elizabeth Jane and the mother's maiden name as Furze.

CT