Greetings from a displaced Celt in Canberra

[limeburnermitchell]

Hello all - hope this finds you all happy, safe and well.  

I'm a long time researcher who, for some reason, hasn't joined up to this forum.  

My name's Grant.  I have a tree that's been plundered on Ancestry since 2007.  Thankfully not too much of it has been found to be incorrect.  Sadly though, some has been, and so I can't say I'm innocent of spreading the dire misinformation and poor research conclusions that predominate over there. 

I've dipped my toe into DNA testing.  Although it seems 75% of my great grandparents are Cornish, I'm 35% Irish, 23% Scottish and 12% Welsh.  If I could live where I feel I belong, it would be in Kerrier or Penwith.     

My late beloved maternal grandmother was born in St Agnes.  Her family are an absolute mess.  I am talking the Wendron/Sithney Pryors.  Anyone who has tried to unpick that mob will feel my pain!  She also has Kerrier Reynoldses in there (who I really haven't progressed far with) and a Tippett family that seems to have wandered around between Wendron, the Lizard, St Erth and St Hilary.

I've been looking at the Trewela/Trewhela/Trewhella/Trewheela/Trevella etc family recently, who marry into my grandmother's Tippett family.  They appear to have Penwith origins and ended up in and around Redruth and Camborne.  My grandmother's GGf John Trewela (ca 1778-?) is a little bit of a mystery.  His wife Mary Thomas appears to be living with our Tippett family in Relubbus in 1841.  Some researchers believe John's still alive at this point, possibly with another partner.  

My Mum's a Stephens, and her Stephens family emigrated to Australia from London.  However, her earliest ancestor - John Stephens (ca 1753-1802) - seems to have been working in Hampshire and then followed his employer to Wimbledon.  John marries a Mary Fellow(e)s, which doesn't seem to be a Cornish name.  Their children include a Tamzen Stephens.  So I believe John is originally from further west than Hampshire.  

On my Dad's side, his Mitchell family appear to have stayed pretty much in and around Cubert, Perranzabuloe, and Crantock.  Issues with Cubert's parish records have made progress beyond the 1730s painfully slow and DNA testing hasn't helped so far.  Once the Mitchells moved to Australia (naming their houses "Cubert" and running silver mines), they marry into the Penwith Mathews family (from Madron/Penzance).  My research suggests that the Mathews family connect to St Ives Richards and Uren families, as well as a Welsh Davies family from Neath/Swansea.  Other Penwith names are Burgan, Garland, Hosking and Symonds.  

Coming back to Mum's Trewellas who most probably have their genesis in Penwith, Dad also appears to have a Dorothy Trewhella from Towednack who marries John Symonds - their daughter Phyllis is my 6GGm.  

Greatly looking forward to exchanging theories with you all in the quest to eliminate misinformation in online family tree research!   

Cheers

Grant

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Grant and Welcome to Penwith Genealogy.

I suggest that if you wish to discuss certain parts of your genealogy in more depth you either begin new threads in appropriate places or add on to existing threads. In my case we would be dealing mostly with the Trewhella side, at least initially, so a thread in the Trewhella forum under the Surnames section would be appropriate.

But for now I will comment on this:-

My grandmother's GGf John Trewela (ca 1778-?) is a little bit of a mystery. His wife Mary Thomas appears to be living with our Tippett family in Relubbus in 1841. Some researchers believe John's still alive at this point, possibly with another partner.

After many years agonizing over the various Trewhella/Trewella/Trewhella/Trewolla etc. families I concluded that John Trewella and Mary Thomas were not the ancestors of Christiana Trewheela who married Thomas Tippett at St Erth in 1833.

This John Trewella is still a bit of a mystery as I have not been able to find a burial for him although it is possibly the 1812 burial I have assigned to his father may in fact belong to the younger John. It is possible that either father or son (or both) were in the maritime trade and one or other lost at sea but no records have been found to prove the case either way.
Another enigma with John is that I do believe he was probably married twice - first to Mary Thomas at Redruth in 1801 and then in 1805 at Illogan to Ann Martyn. If my conclusions here are correct then there was a son from each marriage with the second child dying at the age of 21.
The son from the marriage to Mary Thomas was named John and he married Elizabeth Spargo at Camborne in 1830. There were seven children from that marriage and John Trewhella died at Illogan in 1891 age 85.

Now for the Tippett connection.

Ooooooooooooops!!! - I now need to thank you for joining this forum and posting your information because you have just highlighted a rather large flaw in my thinking! I was about to explain why I had concluded that Christiana Trewheela (wife of Thomas Tippet) was not the daughter of John Trewella and Mary Thomas. I had concluded a couple of years back (after those many years of agonizing) that Christiana was the youngest of 11 children of John Trevela and Mary Harris who married at Redruth in 1790.

But having just taken another look at the 1841 Census I can see that there is something very, very wrong with my conclusions! In the 1841 Census Mary Trewhella was age 60 so even taking into account the age could have been rounded down to the nearest 5 years it is unlikely she was born before 1785/6. She could have been a couple of years older as people were sometimes a little liberal with their version of '5 years' but it does mean I need to take another serious look at both families. If Mary was indeed truly aged no more than 65 or 66 then she would have been just about 15 at marriage which was not illegal at the time but would have been extremely unusual.

I will need time to review all of this and search for anything else I may have missed. Meantime please explore the forum and post any queries you might have. But one thing that does concern me now is that I cannot find a death/burial record for the Mary Trewhella at St Hilary with the Tippetts in 1841.

CT

[zibetha]

Greetings, Grant,

I came upon a post of yours from about five years ago and added the John and Mary group to a worksheet, since I did not know how they fit in. I was looking at Semmons/Symons etc. branches at the time to see who Dorothy Trewhella's husband was.

Anyway, CT, from other discussions here re: Trewhelas/Trewellas in Illogan, I thought we had identified the John Trewella who married Ann Martin as son of William Trewella and Jennifer/Jane White and that he married (secondly) Grace whose last name was not known?

RE: ethnicity estimates, they are just that. It does seem test providers are making some progress separating out the Cornish, but I do laugh at becoming a Scot all of a sudden. The Scandinavian countries seem to boggle the scientists, too. Never the less, I am getting more and more results I can identify. My shared matches help me break things out. Solved my own Mitchell mystery that way

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib and also Grant who I am sure will be interested in the 'round table' on this.

Zib - your note created a few moments of consternation but I think I am over it now. Anyway, I am not quite sure when you and I last talked about this part of the Trewhella family but it may have been prior to my 2018 review and update of my information during which time I found a few things that caused me to make changes here and there.

Now, I have just checked through the database again specifically looking at the now three John Trewhella/Trevella families in my database. I don't actually recall having John Trewhella with the mystery wife Grace linked to the earlier marriage of Ann Martin although I guess it is possible that I may have done at some time. But the first difficulty is that it appears Grace and Ann were still both living in 1841. I have identified a burial at Illogan in 1846 that seems can only have been that of Ann (nee Martin) Trewhella.

Before I give a brief outline of the families as I now have them I need to make a correction to a comment from my initial response to Grant. I believe I stated that John Trewhella had one son from each of his two marriages - son John to wife Mary and son Henry to wife Ann. That is actually not correct as both sons were from the marriage to Ann Martin.

I also found further information in my database to support my conclusion re the identity of Christiana Trewhella/Trevela which I will highlight in the brief outlines here.

Family 1
John Trewela married Mary Thomas at Redruth 31st October 1801 (I do not have a copy of the marriage register but the Bawden Transcripts show that John signed his name 'TREWELA')

Mary wife of John Trewhela was buried 7th September 1802 at Illogan (Bawden Transcript of the Illogan Register) <=====

John Trewella sojourner married Ann Martyn at Illogan 20th October 1805 (I also don't have a copy of the Illogan register but again the Bawden Transcripts show that John signed his name 'TREWELA')
1. John son of John and Ann Treweela baptised 7th September 1806 Illogan (he married Elizabeth Spargo at Camborne 24th May 1830)
2. Henry son of John and Ann Treweela baptised 5th August 1808 Illogan (born 15th July) (Henry Treweela of Bridge age 21 buried 19th October 1829 at Illogan)

As pointed out in my last I have not yet identified a death/burial for John.

Ann Trewheela of Union House age 66 buried 15th December 1846 at Illogan (I believe this is Ann Martyn/Martin)

The John Trewhella (var.) from this family I believe was baptised 14th March 1779 at Redruth to John and Ann (nee White) Trewhella)

Family 2
John Trewhella and Grace (maiden name not known) for whom we are yet to find a marriage. Presuming a marriage did take place then it must have been before October 1822 when their first known child was baptised.
John and Grace were both still living at the time of the 1851 Census - John age 73 and born Illogan and Grace age 63 and born Redruth. I believe this John was baptised at Redruth 24th May 1778 to William Trewhella and Jane/Jenifer (nee White)
1. William son of John and Grace Treweel of Town, mason baptised privately 16th October 1822 at Redruth (married Elizabeth Hocking at Illogan 18th January 1847)
2. Elizabeth born about 1824 married James Marshall 12th December 1848 at Holy Trinity Church, Adelaide, South Australia (she can be found with the family in the 1841 Census)
3. Matthew born about 1829 at Redruth (1851 Census) married Jane Northey 25th December 1853 at St Blazey. Married again to Mary Skillins 11th May 1864 at Detroit, Michigan, USA
4. Mary Ann born about 1832 Redruth (1841 and 1851 Census) married first William Rowe at Liskeard in 1857 and second Christopher Bodinner 28th November 1859 at the Liskeard Register Office. (She died in North Yorkshire in 1888)

John Trewhella was buried at Illogan 27th November 1853 but I have found no further trace of Grace.

Re the parentage of Christiana - the burial of Mary 'wife of John Trewhela' that I highlighted above is probably what cleared up quite a few problems with these Illogan and Redruth families. The key is that we are dealing with a John Trewhella/Trevela (and variants) with a wife named Mary and prior to 1843 there were very few. Here is the list along with notes to 'narrow the field':-

1699 St Clement - John Trewolo and Mary Tregon - far too early
1713 Crowan - John Trewheela and Mary - far too early
1715 Camborne - John Trewhellyea and Mary Williams - far too early
1715 Crowan - John Treweela and Mary - far too early and possibly the same as the 1713 event
1758 St Agnes - John Trevailor and Mary Restallack - far too early
1790 Redruth - John Trevela and Mary Harris <====
1794 Crowan - John Trewhela and Mary Holman - 13 children all baptised at Crowan and Gwinear from 1795 to 1820
1800 Towednack - John Trewhella and Mary Berryman - 8 children baptised at Towednack and Lelant from 1800-1820
1801 Redruth - John Trewela and Mary Thomas <====
1825 Camborne - John Trewella and Mary Edwards
1843 Lelant - John Trewhella and Mary Richards

It could be argued that the burial of Mary 'wife of John Trewhela' might have been Mary Harris the wife of John Trevela. But then John and Mary Trevela had been baptising children at Redruth since 1791 including daughter Susannah in 1800 and son Richard in 1802. Another four children were baptised up to 1812 with all but recorded as 'Trevela'.

My conclusion on the identity of Christiana remain unchanged but I am still puzzled by the 1841 Census showing Mary Trewhella age 60 residing with the Tippett family.

CT

[zibetha]

Hi,

I have moved Ann back where she belongs -- there was too much of a gap if she had been the first wife and Grace the second. It could have been a slip on my part in not updating my tree vs worksheets. Correct me if I have it wrong, but the two Johns were cousins? On their fathers' side if not also on their mothers' - Jane and Ann White. I have not looked into that!

To me, it seems we are missing some people. I don't know where to place John Trewhella born 1778 residing at Redruth a widowed stone mason with 5 children who was convicted of stealing a trowel in Midsummer 1834 and sentenced to Bodmin jail. Neither of the John T's mentioned above would have been widowers. Which means we are looking for an additional John for the father of Christiana if Mary in the Tippett household is indeed her mother rather than having a different relationship.

The one thing I can verify is that John Trewhela who married Mary Holman can be crossed off the list as he was the brother of my 4th great, great-grandmother, the wife of William Harvey.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib - the two Johns are as follows:-

John m. Ann White 1778 Redruth - bp. 25th August 1751 Camborne son of William Trewhella and Jane Hocking

John m. Jane Thomas 1801 Redruth - bp. 14th March 1779 son of John Trewhella and Ann White above

Re Ann and Jane White:-

Jane White was the wife of William Trewhella brother to John who married Ann White but as yet I do not have baptisms or parentage for either. It is quite possible Ann and Jane were sisters but I really haven't looked into it. What I do know is that Ann was born around 1748 or 1749 based on her age at burial in 1841 being 72.

The closest I can come to Ann from the OPC records is the baptism of Ann daughter of Benjamin and Jane White at Redruth 27th July 1751.
And after a brief search for Jane I see that Benjamin and Jane White baptised a daughter Jane at Redruth 28th May 1748 which fits in fairly nicely with what we already know.

Most unfortunate that Benjamin White does not appear to have left a Will and equally unfortunate that no member of the White family witnessed either of the marriages in question. Nevertheless, I think we are almost certainly looking at the family of Benjamin and Jane White. The only possible marriage I can find:-

Kenwyn 5th May 1747 Bennet White and Jane Hoare both of this Parish

The only children for any Ben White in the OPC records are the six baptised at Redruth from 1748 to 1761 so it appears that may be the marriage.

Re Christiana Tippett - I am quite satisfied we are not dealing with a 'missing' John Trewhella/Trevela so the problem lies with the identity of Mary from the 1841 Census. What really concerns me is that I cannot find a death/burial record for this Mary ............. whoever she is! Not even a reasonably close match in the GRO Index.

If this Mary is related to Christiana then she would either be her mother and her age in the Census is at least 10 years below what it should be or she would be a sister and the age is more than 10 years above what it should be. (There are baptisms for two Mary Trevelas at Redruth in 1792 and 1794. Both appear to belong to the same family but there is no burial for the earlier child which means either a missing burial or a second baptism.)
If Mary is not related to Christiana then there is another problem because I do not have ANY Mary of any variant spelling of the name who was alive in 1841 but not where she should have been. In other words - all Mary Trewhellas alive at the time are accounted for in the homes of the husbands. I should qualify that and say that these are all Mary Trewhellas who were born around the right time to be recorded as age 60 in 1841.
I can find no other possible birth or marriage record to account for this Mary either so in the absence of a death record I have to conclude for the moment that it may be Christian's mother with her age recorded incorrectly.

CT

[zibetha]

I have a question re: a different Christiana Trewhella (I'll just spell it that way for now) of Kenwyn born about 1795 who married Peter Hancock and who might be connected to people in this thread. I have had a bit of a headache separating her from Christiana Sandow wife of John Hancock. Don't know if Peter and John were related, but aren't we all? I have not been able to identify parents for Christiana T.

I seem to connect with Peter Hancock via Uren and Bartill lines.

Wondering if you have ideas re: this Christiana's parents.

Thanks,
Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib - yes, I can sort that out for you.

First of all I have Peter Hancock baptized at Gwennap 27th September 1789 to Joseph Hancock and Elizabeth (nee Goldsworthy).

From the OPC database - Peter Hancock of Union House age 60 buried 19th September 1850 at Redruth

And now for Christiana

From the Kenwyn Parish Register:-

Christian daughter of William and Catherine Trewhelar baptised 8th April 1787

Christian's parents were William Trewhela (5th November 1725 Kenwyn son of John Trewhela and Mary Williams) and his third wife Catherine Truscott who were married at Kenwyn 5th May 1781. She was, therefore, the 17th of 19 children of William Trewhela.

This makes her a half-sister to Richard Trewheler (m. Martha Snow) whose son John was responsible for the Russian family. Another son Thomas married Dinah Goodson and had some family in New Zealand and Australia.

The first two wives of William Trewhelar (var.) were Elizabeth Tremelling (m. Kenwyn 23rd February 1754) and Elizabeth James (m. Kenwyn 28th December 1773).

I am not sure how you arrived at a possible birth year of 1795 for Christiana but she died in 1838 at the age of 52.

From St Day Parish Register:-

1838 3rd May Christiana Hancock of St Day age 52, decline

CT

[zibetha]

Thanks for the information, CT. I guess-timated Christiana's year of birth based on baptisms to Peter and Christian for William 1819, Elizabeth 1821 and Ann/Nanny 1823 in the OPC database. Since found the marriage in 1813, so Christiana was obviously older than I thought. I have Peter's parents as you indicated, and knew I was missing children of William Trewhela, which from earlier threads I thought were 13- 14. Guess I need to revisit that!

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib - if you want to let me know which children you have for William Trewhela I can fill in the gaps for you.

CT

[zibetha]

I will. Not the first time this William's family has been addressed, and I don't want to bore people or change the direction of Grant's thread.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib - this might be one that would be better off being handled via email. As you indicate, we don't want to distract from the original intent of the thread.

CT

[zibetha]

I have picked up where I left off-- Just h ad to think for a while

[zibetha]

To Grant--we are not a DNA match on Ancestry. That does not concern me as it would be pretty far back.I am tracking my matches on different branches and get more than I would expect.

Zib