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Post by marychown on Sept 15, 2018 2:45:33 GMT -5
Ancestry has published new ethnicity estimations with more specific areas. For me, some make sense and others do not. The big thing I noticed is that my Iberian peninsula category is now gone. Is anyone else seeing the same? Zib My new ethnicity estimations have also totally changed, Zib! My Iberian peninsula category has now gone too as well as my Scandinavian category. My estimate now reads: England, Wales and Northwestern Europe 100% - Increased by 70%. Migrations: Southern England, Devon and Cornwall. All my previous categories have gone! I do wish Ancestry would not keep playing around with data like this.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 15, 2018 4:26:55 GMT -5
Well, I started out with very little to no idea of how this all works and after all this I still have very little to no idea of how this all works!! I have hundreds (probably thousands) of matches in Ancestry, Gedmatch and FTDNA with no common names in gedcoms and no indication where the match might be. Some 2nd-3rd cousin matches could relate to my unknown Singleton or O'Neill sides but the 4th-6th cousin matches mostly don't make any sense. As for the ethnicity estimates. I went from:- 41% Ireland and Scotland 49% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 4% Scandinavia 2% Europe East <1% Melanesia <1% Europe West <1% Iberian Peninsula <1% Asia South To:- 59% Ireland and Scotland 38% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 3% Norway (refined from Scandinavia) CT
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Post by zibetha on Sept 15, 2018 7:12:26 GMT -5
Mine has changed also with the biggest difference being that I am more Norwegian than Swedish. Ha ha ha NOT. And I actually want my Iberian influence back. I understand this is all based on algorithms. An American cousin of mine discusses it here. dna-explained.com
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 15, 2018 8:27:13 GMT -5
Thanks Zib - the ethnicity bit doesn't really do anything for me at the moment but way down below there is a section on uploading/downloading raw data that might be helpful. I originally uploaded my Ancestry autosomal test to FTDNA and got an account set up. And then when I did the Y-DNA test through FTDNA itself they set up another account for that! With this article I might now be able to work out a way to get both tests combined.
CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Sept 15, 2018 17:10:18 GMT -5
Good evening from Cornwall
I have been thinking about these posts and would like to add my very uneducated opinion.
First thing is this absurd notion that the families of Cornwall were waiting with open doors and virgin daughters for the survivors of their enemies Armada... and as I understand it anyway the majority of the wrecks were on the eastern Irish Coast and it is not pleasing reading to learn what happened to a lot of the Armada survivors who made it to shore... after all the two countries were at war and the survivors were prisoners of war. It has been said that during the last ice age the British Isles as we know it was depopulated due to the harshness of the ice age climate. 16 to 17 thousand years ago as the climate started to warm the first Britons walked across to what we now know as Britain and started to live there. Other people arrived from differing directions and so it belies belief to consider that after 16000 years of populating Britain a few randy Spanish sailors were going to any effect on the Cornish population. And as an aside there do not seem to be a lot of Spanish names in the Parish records - is that right CT. In my humble opinion.
Zib what I can't understand from your latest discussion is the value of the ethnicity results. The reason I say that is best illustrated with a question.. what, for example, is the Norwegian ethnicity they are referring to.. are they suggesting that all Norwegians have the same... because unless Norway was populated in one go then there must be diversity among the Norwegians themselves??
For me there is only one DNA result that really interests me.. and that is my Haplogroup... you see all I want to know is how did my lot get to Cornwall.... where and when did they come out of Africa and what are the stages of migration that occurred before they (or he) arrived in Cornwall, for example where did they winter over during the last ice age. Because if I am 5% Norwegian for example, at what stage in that migration did I get that 5% irrespective of what it actually means to be Norwegian.
So I belong to R-Z8.. that is as far as I have got to date. DNA information is developing and getting easier to understand and I am hoping that in my lifetime I can follow those footsteps back the way they came.. on a map of course.
Lannanta
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Post by spikeharwood on Sept 15, 2018 17:13:21 GMT -5
Thanks Zib - the ethnicity bit doesn't really do anything for me at the moment but way down below there is a section on uploading/downloading raw data that might be helpful. I originally uploaded my Ancestry autosomal test to FTDNA and got an account set up. And then when I did the Y-DNA test through FTDNA itself they set up another account for that! With this article I might now be able to work out a way to get both tests combined. CT I'm not sure you will be able to combine your kits. I think they like to keep the Ancestry transfers separate and they all have a B prefix. I have about 14 kits under my management - not all mine of course. They each have their own number and separate log in. Are you on the new Ancestry chip or the old one? The old will give you say 2000 plus matches with close and speculative matches included. The new chip only gives the close matches, around 200 or so. Can I ask at what level you did your Y-DNA and what haplogroup you are in? Did you know that there is a very active Cornish Project on FTDNA? The main emphasis is on the Y. The administrator is Victorian, Jim Joe Flood and he is very knowledgeable about the Y haplogroups. With your Cornish surname I'm sure he would love to have you in the group and would be very helpful. There is also a tool that shows you your autosomal matches with other members of the group, which numbers over 660. I've looked at your One to many report on GEDmatch. Not much for you to work with. One second cousin then not much after that. You might just have to be patient and wait for more rellies to test. If possible, I'd be getting someone from an older generation tested, parent,uncle, aunt if you have any left. I found that sorting my matches into paternal/maternal has been a great help. But lucky for me I have a 91 year old father that I was able to test.
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Post by spikeharwood on Sept 15, 2018 17:22:40 GMT -5
Hi Glazin, I see there is already an R-Z8 in the Cornish Project. That might be you, if not you could join up and double the number!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 15, 2018 18:03:43 GMT -5
Firstly a short answer for Lannanta - the one 'odd' name from the earlier registers that always caught my eye was DELARIAGETTA which first seems to appear at St Erth in 1676. I don't know whether or not it is Spanish but even so it is still more than 80 years after the Armada attack on Mousehole. There may well be Spanish names scattered through earlier records but in my opinion it is more likely they are a result of shipwreck survivors or traders who came ashore and decided for one reason or another to stay. Spike - you are right that the DNA kits can't be combined (as in merged together) but that was not exactly my intent. What I want is to be able to get away from having multiple logins for my own kits. Earlier tonight, after a read through the information in the link provided by Zibetha, I contacted FTDNA and asked if they might be able to help me sort the problem out. The result is that within a couple of weeks I should have what I want! The request has been passed to the database managers or tech experts who will remove the Ancestry Raw data file that I uploaded last year and cancel that account. All I have to do after that is to log in to my Y-DNA Account and follow the procedure to upload the raw data again to that account. I presume I am on the newer chip with Ancestry as I only did the test last May. Checking results on the autosomal test now and I see there are 398 matches. I did the Y-111 test with FTDNA and the Haplogroup is R-M269. I think that one is very broad but I can't afford the add-ons at the moment and in any case will be waiting on my cousin's results to come through before chatting with him and deciding the next steps to take. After all, he paid for the test but has nominated ME as the best person to interpret the results! I think there are four of us involved in this exercise with one in New Zealand who is related to the Russian Trewheler family via his 2xgt-grandfather who was a brother to the John Trewheler who went to Russia around 1815. The Y test shows that our families are connected as I had long suspected. I do know of the Cornish Group and of Joe Flood but I am waiting until I get my database in order and learn a little more about working with DNA results before I start committing to groups like that. Gedmatch - There are actually a few matches there that are reasonably close. A couple of Roberts entries are close because they descend from my great-grandfather's brother Ben. But by far the strongest match is Helen Pfann who is a cousin of my mother on the Singleton side. There is only one Ancestry match so far I think that I know is a direct link to Trewhellas in Cornwall and that is a descendant of John Trewhella and Nancy Jelbart from St Buryan. I always believed John was a brother to my 3xgt-grandfather as he was born at Towednack around 1800. Unfortunately there is no baptism record for John but his age in the Census is always consistent and he fits into a three year gap in the family. The Ancestry match is a direct descendant of John and Nancy which helps prove the link. As for other family members testing - none of my siblings have ever shown the slightest interest and certainly none of them likes to release their grip on a dollar! And my Dad and only Trewhella uncle are also gone. My cousin Dennis who did the Y-test was a second cousin to my father and is the last of the older generations so hopefully his and my own tests can 'do the job'. His sister also did the autosomal test via Ancestry but I don't think she has uploaded to Gedmatch. I may be calling on you soon for a bit of assistance Spike. CT
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Post by zibetha on Sept 15, 2018 21:12:29 GMT -5
In terms of ethnicity results being meaningful, I have no disagreement with Lannanta/Glazin. They are a sampling and/or estimate. I am on the lookout for anything unusual as it helps me gauge the validity of other results. Different services evaluate tests in their own way, and I have to determine how/where to best allocate my research time. For example, My Heritage has me at 43.7% Scandinavian vs 20% at Ancestry, and I think MH has me matched to every Swede, Norwegian, Dane and Finn in their database. One of my great-grandmothers was from Sweden. I am happy that Ancestry doesn't lump us all into an "Irish" category anymore. I like the new England/Wales/Northwest Europe category where I am "in" at 73% That makes total sense, and I do have a smidgin of Ireland/Scotland at 5% I can relate to. The only new area I see is Germanic Europe at 2% (Also makes sense.) As to Iberian Peninsula, I do have a distant link aside from Cornwall. Interestingly, there was an FAQ question response on Ancestry on the order of my Iberian Peninsula influence has disappeared, should I stop my bullfighting lessons? Answer was sangria and siestas were safer anyway... That seems to have been taken down. What I find interesting was that the Iberian "change" was noticed and addressed. My only "area" shown is Devon & Cornwall - OK but, based on my matches, I also expected to be in one re: people moving from Pennsylvania to Ohio. My brother has that one but not Cornwall. CT, I am very happy to hear of your Trewhella/Trewhela New Zealand link. My mtDNA kit has arrived; I will post when I have results. Zib
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Post by zibetha on Sept 15, 2018 22:10:06 GMT -5
The Iberian Peninsula commonality came up for me a couple of days ago via a topic on a DNA site and caused me to examine my known Cornish matches. All but 2 had that.
And, Mr Glazin--- you are in Cornwall right now?!?!?!
I am jealous. Z
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Post by Glazin2018 on Sept 16, 2018 8:30:31 GMT -5
Zib
Really? I do not wish to be a doubting Thomas but is there not a question of relevancy here?? Pardon me for being of an engineering background but if you can get that sort of variance then I would be thinking that one would be better to put their money in their pocket and wait a few years for the technology to come to a level that is meaningful for the thousands who must be investing in the likes of Ancestry etc.
Anyway, in my rant last night I forgot to say what I was trying to say all along. Using the 'Spanish' word loosely I agree with Oppenheimer in that yes there are Spanish genes in Cornwall. But they did not come with the Spanish Armada ... rather they came even before the first farmers, that is between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago following the last Ice Age. This Spanish group came out of the French-Spanish refuge - the Basque area - and of course Spain is on the Iberian Peninsula.
However there was a second colonisation from the opposite direction - from near the Black Sea - the Ukrainian and Moldavian refuges.
For those that are struggling with this topic I would seriously suggest taking the time to read Stephen Oppenheimer's book - "The Origins of the British". It gives a very good insight into the peopling of Britain and how DNA is being used to map the original colonisation. You need to take your time and read slowly. It is a very good piece of literature.
Lannanta
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Post by trencrom on Sept 21, 2018 3:00:26 GMT -5
I pointed out earlier that apparent "Spanish" genes is probably due to there having been a Celtic presence in the Iberian peninsula. So what you may think of as "Spanish" would actually be Celtic. As for "Scandinavian" ancestry, with the exception of course of those folk who know that they have relatively recent ancestry from those countries, you may want to consider the possibility that what the test results are calling "Scandinavian" might, in fact, be Viking. Trencrom
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Post by Glazin2018 on Sept 24, 2018 3:26:32 GMT -5
Good evening
I am not sure if you are referring to my use of the word "Spanish" so I would just like to make it clear that I was using it and the word "Iberian" in a geographical sense only - to place on a modern map where I understand one of the two initial immigrations following the last glacial maximum started from - i.e. the Basque refuge.
I do not agree with you that the initial immigration to Cornwall from the Basque refuge was necessarily Celtic as you indicate - nor would I enter into an argument about whether the first immigrants into Cornwall were Celts or pre-Celts - from my readings there are many scholars on either side of that argument and I am completely out of my depth to choose a side.
Zib - back in NZ now
Spikeharwood - that is me in the Cornish project.
Lannanta
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Post by zibetha on Sept 24, 2018 7:36:56 GMT -5
All right Lannanta!
I am glad you are home but sad at the same time that you have departed from Cornwall. I do have Viking blood via the Blewett family. I just did not expect to see that from an autosomal test (have found Blewett cousins though.)
Who knows.
Zib
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Post by trencrom on Sept 27, 2018 2:14:57 GMT -5
Good evening
I am not sure if you are referring to my use of the word "Spanish" so I would just like to make it clear that I was using it and the word "Iberian" in a geographical sense only - to place on a modern map where I understand one of the two initial immigrations following the last glacial maximum started from - i.e. the Basque refuge. [ I do not agree with you that the initial immigration to Cornwall from the Basque refuge was necessarily Celtic as you indicate - nor would I enter into an argument about whether the first immigrants into Cornwall were Celts or pre-Celts - from my readings there are many scholars on either side of that argument and I am completely out of my depth to choose a side.
I didn't say anything about a first emigration into Cornwall being Celtic or not. Nor did I say that the Celts in Cornwall came there from the Basque region. My point was that DNA results indicating a connection to the Iberian peninsula could well be Celtic in their nature because there were Celtic peoples in the Iberian peninsula. And the Cornish too were a Celtic people. That does not necessarily mean that the Cornish came from the Iberian peninsula! The Celts, as I understand it, originated in Central Europe and it may well be that some then went to the Iberian region and others went to Cornwall. Common Celtic ancestry would therefore account for the genetic similarities without necessitating that one is descended from the other. Trencrom
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