New user looking for info on John Tonkin (c1780)

[percy]

I am trying to establish my ancestral line beyond my 4th great grandfather, John Tonkin. The only definite fact that I have on him is that he married Elizabeth Foss in Plymouth, in 1805. Apart from that, DNA suggests that he MAY be either a brother or first cousin of Richard Tonkin, 1771-1844, of Tregony.

I hope I have posted on the correct board, as this is my first attempt at this. I would appreciate any assistance, even if it is to tell me I am in the worng place!
John has baffled most of our family's attempts to correcty identify him, I hope someone here can roved that first lead.

Regards
Percy

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Percy and Welcome to the site.

I am not familiar with any of the Tonkins outside of West Cornwall and there is not much in the marriage record that is helpful. But I have found a researcher who has a family tree on Ancestry that might be of some help to you.

www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/4610413/person/230191266667/facts

This person claims John Tonkin was born at Eggesford in Devon in 1785 to Stephen Tonkin and Joanna Tonkin who were apparently cousins. Looking further at the tree and I see that Stephen and Joanna were married at St Agnes in Cornwall in 1768.

It might be worth your while to take a look at this tree and then contact the researcher via the link provided in the Ancestry Page.

CT

[Loolah]

Hi Petey
Loolah here. I have just sent you a message in reply to your questions about the Youngs of St.Ives. That aside, I am curious about your search for John Tonkin. Are you looking into Jane Tonkin's ancestry? (the one who married our James in 1798). She had a younger brother named John bpt. 1780. Maybe he went to Plymouth?

I have their parents as Ralph Tonkin Jnr and Faith Rodda (married 1770). I think Ralph Jnr. may have been baptised in 1755 at St.Just in Penwith. He was the son of Ralph and Sarah Tonkin. That Ralph was also the son of a Ralph (married Christian Simmons in 1712). I never looked further back than that, so if you do find a link to earlier Tonkins, I'd be very interested.
Loolah
Ooops! That should have been addressed to Percy not Petey. Though I think we are all barking up the same tree.

[petey]

Aug 23, 2020 12:43:03 GMT -5 Loolah said:

Hi Petey
Loolah here. I have just sent you a message in reply to your questions about the Youngs of St.Ives. That aside, I am curious about your search for John Tonkin. Are you looking into Jane Tonkin's ancestry? (the one who married our James in 1798). She had a younger brother named John bpt. 1780. Maybe he went to Plymouth?

I have their parents as Ralph Tonkin Jnr and Faith Rodda (married 1770). I think Ralph Jnr. may have been baptised in 1755 at St.Just in Penwith. He was the son of Ralph and Sarah Tonkin. That Ralph was also the son of a Ralph (married Christian Simmons in 1712). I never looked further back than that, so if you do find a link to earlier Tonkins, I'd be very interested.
Loolah

[petey]

Jul 26, 2020 20:11:49 GMT -5 percy said:

I am trying to establish my ancestral line beyond my 4th great grandfather, John Tonkin. The only definite fact that I have on him is that he married Elizabeth Foss in Plymouth, in 1805. Apart from that, DNA suggests that he MAY be either a brother or first cousin of Richard Tonkin, 1771-1844, of Tregony.

I hope I have posted on the correct board, as this is my first attempt at this. I would appreciate any assistance, even if it is to tell me I am in the worng place!
John has baffled most of our family's attempts to correcty identify him, I hope someone here can roved that first lead.

Regards
Percy

Hi Percy and Loolah,

Just found your Post. I have not looked into the ancestors of John Tonkin yet. The line lots of people have been working on is James Young B1798 D1840 who married Jane Tonkin B1771 D1824. I believe John Tokin may be brother of Jane Tonkin. In the Young tree this is the first Tonkin to join the tree and there are several Youngs that have taken the Tonkin name in later generations of the Young tree. I stopped looking for the parents of Jane Tonkin because  I couldn't identify her mother.

Hope this helps a little bit. 
Regards Petery

[Cornish Terrier]

I have not looked at this Tonkin family as yet however there may be some helpful clues among the children of James Young and Jane Tonkin. The relevant names in the order they were used were John Tonkin Young, Ralph Tonkin Young and Jane Tonkin Young.

James Young and Jane Tonkin were both resident at Penzance when they married in 1798. The name Ralph Tonkin can be found many times in the registers for the Penzance to Land's End area during the 18th Century.

As the first Tonkin name used in the Young family was John my first thought would be that it was for Jane's father but it could, as you suggest, be for her brother in which case Ralph would probably be her father. I have compared the signiatures on two marriage records - 1. The 1770 marriage at Madron for Ralph Tonkin and Faith Rodda and 2. the 1798 Madron marriage for James Young and Jane Tonkin in which a Ralph Tonkin was a witness.
We are fortunate that in both cases the Ralph Tonkin involved was able to sign his own name but there is around 28 years between the two events so even if it was the same Ralph Tonkin you might expect some changes. There is certainly a little difference in the way the forename was signed but based on the surname I would suggest it was definitely the same Ralph Tonkin involved.

My conclusion therefore is that your Jane Tonkin was baptised at Madron 8th September 1771 to Ralph Tonkin junr. - her parents are Ralph Tonkin and Faith Rodda who married at Madron 16th November 1770.

The John Tonkin of your enquiry is then probably Jane's brother who was baptised at Paul 12th October 1780 to Ralph and Faith Tonkin.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

After reading over the recent posts again I need to add the following:-

I believe Ralph Tonkin was baptised at Sennen 29th November 1747 to Ralph Tonkin and his wife Jane Owls who married at Sennen in 1741. The eldest child of Ralph and Faith was named Jane and their only other daughter was Alice.

It seems a little odd that they may have been buried in different Parishes but my current belief is that Faith Tonkin was buried at Penzance 16th August 1831 at the age of 80 and her husband Ralph buried a month later at Sancreed on 13th September 1831.

CT

[Loolah]

All these Ralphs!
CT, I wonder whether the father of Ralph jnr., was married to Jane Lawrence rather than Jane Owls? Ralph and Jane Lawrence married on 25 November 1743 at Sennen.
Interestingly, in addition to Jane bpt. 1744. also born to a Ralph Tonkin at Sennen were Thomas Tonkin bpt 1751 and Peter Tonkin bpt 1753. Annoyingly, the baptism records don't give the mother's name (though if it was Jane, we would still be none the wiser as to which Jane it was!)
There is also a marriage of Ralph Tonkin to Sarah Tonkin in Sennen in 1747 - sigh. Not forgetting the Tonkins of St.Just in Penwith. Aaargh!

Tonkins seems to disappear from the Sennen registers soon afterwards so maybe they moved on to Sancreed? There I found a John Tonkin bpt 1756 and Enoc bpt 1760 both sons of Ralph and a Jane.

I think I'm in agreement that the John Tonkin being searched was Jane's brother and therefore uncle to my Young ancestors.
I shall now take a back seat on this Tonkin search and leave it to Percy/Petey.
Happy hunting folks.
Loolah

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Loolah

Ralph and Jane Lawrence married on 25 November 1743 at Sennen.

Now, it is quite possible she was a young widow but I am more inclined to think she was probably a bit older which is why I probably discounted her several years ago.

Sorry Loolah but .... not quite right! Ralph Tonkin and Jane Lawrence actually married at St Just in Penwith AND I should add that Jane Lawrence was actually a Widow!

A quick look at the OPC records seems to offer only one real possibility for Jane Lawrence. On 31st December 1725 there was a marriage at St Just for Anthony Lawrence and Jane Botrel - I can find only one child for this marriage and that was a son Anthony baptised at St Just 5th March 1726/7. The interesting thing is that an Anthony Lawrence was buried at St Just 3rd February 1725/6 - just a couple of months after the marriage. So was the baptism of son Anthony a year later a delayed baptism for a posthumous child?

If this were true then it is quite possible this was the widowed Jane Lawrence who married Ralph Tonkin in 1743 suggesting that this Ralph Tonkin was also not a young man!



Ralph Tonkin and Sarah Tonkin had five children that I have found - Christian in 1747, Ralph 1749-1750, Sarah 1752, Ralph 1755 and John 1757. All were baptised at St Just and, largely because of the first daughter, I have this Ralph as baptised 7th October 1722 at St Just to Ralph Tonkin and Christian Simons.

At this point it appears that we are still looking at Ralph Tonkin and Jane Owls being the parents of James Young's wife I think.

CT

[Loolah]

You are probably right CT. I am just getting so confused with Ralphs and Janes.
I have enough trouble with sorting out my James Youngs, so I'm leaving all the Tonkins -and there are so many of them - for now.
Loolah

[Cornish Terrier]

Well, Loolah, there are some conversation pieces 'out there' now so let's see how the scenario develops.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

A little while I ago it occurred to me to see if there were any Ralph Tonkin Wills for St Just. I discovered and downloaded the Will of Ralph Tonkin taylor of St Just written 8th June 1768 and proved 2nd May 1769 and in the light of the last few posts it does make interesting reading.

The first bequest went to his wife JANE and involved one or more dwelling houses that were part of the tenement of Boscaswell in St Just. She was also to receive 7 pounds per year for the rest of her natural life.

Next bequest went to son in law Martin Murrish and then daughter Christian Murrish (Christian daughter of Ralph and Christian Tonkin bp. 27th November 1714 St Just - married 7th February 1738 St Just to Martin Murrish)

Next item was a bequest to son in law Thomas Rawling and then daughter Margary Rawling (Marjory daughter of Ralph Tonkin or Christian bp. 9th March 1716 St Just - married 1st January 1746 St Just to Thomas Rawling)

Next mentioned was son in law John Tresise and daughter Margaret Tresise (Margart daughter of Ralph Tonkin of Christian bp. 27th February 1719 St Just - married 15th January 1744 St Just to John Tresize (recorded as Margery))

And then comes daughter in law Sarah Tonkin and grandson John Tonkin after which grandson Ralph Tonkin is named as executor and residual legatee. This last involves the following:-

Ralph son of Ralph Tonkin of Christian bp. 7th October 1722 St Just
Ralph Tonkin and Sarah Tonkin were married at Sennen 5th June 1747 and had the following children:-

Christian bp. 4th June 1748 St Just
Ralph bp. 3rd March 1748 St Just (buried 5th September 1750 St Just)
Sarah bp. 27th March 1752 St Just
Ralph bp. 31st March 1755 St Just <======== Executor of Grandfather's Will
John bp. 26th December 1757 St Just

As he is not mentioned in the Will it would seem that Sarah's husband had pre-deceased his father. A check of St Just burials shows that Ralph Tonkin junr. was buried 14th June 1758 and his father on 13th September 1768 also at St Just.

So, the list of children mentioned in the Will shows that Ralph Tonkin had been first married to Christian which means he married Christian Simons at Madron 24th May 1712 at which time he was of Madron and Christian of Penzance.
The Will also shows that his wife at the time the Will was written was Jane and for that we have two options - 1. Jane Owls at Sennen in 1741 or 2. Jane Lawrence Widow at St Just in 1743.

Either of the two marriages are possible as the St Just Parish Register shows that 'Christian ye wife of Ralf Tonken was buried Oct; 10 : 1739' however as the Owls marriage took place at Sennen and was immediately followed by children and as Jane Lawrence in 1743 was a widow then it is more probable that Ralph Tonkin's second wife was indeed Jane Lawrence! (Whether or not she was the widow of Anthony Lawrence as speculated in my recent post I don't know. )

CT

[Loolah]

Well, well Sherlock, you seem to have come up trumps (once again!). Give yourself a deerstalker.
Goodness, what an amazing piece of detective work.
I am certain Percy (or was it Petey?) will be thrilled to have his ancestry explained so fully.
Loolah

[percy]

Thanks everyone for your input. I shall go awy and see if I can make any neadway with what yyu have provided. i do apprecite your assitance.

Regards

Percy(not Petey)