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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 13, 2020 4:13:12 GMT -5
Hi there, Myttin da I am trying to trace my Curnow ancestors, I am Australian so can only check things on line. I have information via ancestry but I dont think that the people ancestry suggest are correct. My great grandfather was the first Curnow to migrate here his name is William Curnow, he migrated from Paul to work the Copper Mines in South Australia. Ancestry suggests that Alice Payne James is his mother, but I do not think that is correct. The reason why I dont think it is correct is others who have used Ancestry hints have him as being born in May 1856 and if I look at the baptism records tthis William was baptised in Feb 1856. I dont think its possible to be baptised before you are born. I think he is a son of Thomas Curnow and Elizabeth either James or Eddy. Another hint that makes me believe his mother is Elizabeth as his first named children are Thomas and Ella Elizabeth. I found a transcript of the 1861 census and I have found a William(he is listed as being 11 but I feel that is incorrect) with parents Thomas and Elizabeth. On this census Thomas is 32 and Elizabeth 29 making Thomas born in 1829 and Elizabeth born in 1832 There are no Thomas Curnows listed as baptised in 1829 However, there is aThomas Curnow baptised in 1830. He is a son of Margery Curnow of whom I believe is a daughter of William Curnow and Elizabeth Bolitho He was listed as illegitimate. On the baptism document his mother must have tried to sneak him in as there is the first name Henry and another surname crossed out starting with J. Poor darling must have been horribly embarassed. I reason I am sending you this email is because I noted there was an older post regarding a missing Paul Curnow, mother Martha, Was just wondering if there is a connection. i am getting confused. I would appreciate if anyone could give me some help I am proud of my Cornish heritage it means a lot to me My grand mother (fathers mother) is descended from the Jeffery family of Illogan Her grandfather James was the first Methodist minister to preach on the Gold Fields at Bendigo in Victoria. Although being Australian I am a bit of a mix.but I hold all my ancestors in my heart.
Thank you for any assistance and I hope my thread is of some interest kind regards Laurin
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Post by sue on Mar 13, 2020 5:15:51 GMT -5
Hi and welcome. I know a fair bit about Curnows, so, with help from Aus. records experts, we may be able to get somewhere on this. May I suggest stepping aside from online trees, and concentrating instead on actual records, starting with what you actually know for definite - the clearly laid out factual factual details of your Curnow grandparent, or if too recent to put online, the factual details of your Curnow gt-grandparent: Date and place of death, parents named at death/marriage, date & place of birth etc. I just find it is best to be belt and braces and build one's house on rock, not the sand of online trees/suggestions! As you mention Moonta, you may well be talking William Curnow 1858 of Thomas Curnow (and yes I know who that Thomas Curnow is) & Elizabeth James, who took the Queen Bee to S. Aus 1864. BUT... let's get that rock solid starting point first! (And that William Curnow is not from Paul. Let go of those online trees & "hints"! Garden paths can take you wrong places!! ) Sue P.S. Meanwhile, I would set aside the possibility of Thomas Curnow baptized 26 September 1830 Ludgvan as being in your direct line, as my work some years ago identified that Thomas Curnow as being buried age 6, 19 Oct 1835 Towednack of Halsetown. Margery then had a 2nd illegitimate son Thomas 1837 who died 1840. And William Curnow baptized 3 February 1856 Paul to Thomas & Alice went on to be a headteacher in Dulwich, outskirts of London.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 13, 2020 13:53:33 GMT -5
Hi Laurin and Welcome from me also. Sue and I worked on many of the Curnows a few years back and I believe we have this lot sorted out. But rather than simply lay it all out before you I will allow Sue to lead you through the maze of identifying them for yourself. It really is much more fun and certainly more satisfying if you can do at least some of the work for yourself. CT
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 13, 2020 22:59:26 GMT -5
Hello Sue and Cornish Terrier thank you so much. I cant begin to tell you how happy I am that you have replied. My father is Ronald Thomas Curnow. he is a son of William Edward Curnow and Ella May Curnow (Jeffery) Grandfather William Edward is a son of William (I have him at 1857?) and he is a child of Thomas Curnow and Elizabeth James (thank you for your confirmation). I hope I am not giving out too much information and what I am writing is ok. I am older and was born in Victoria My parents Ronald Curnow and Norma Curnow (MacLeod) met in Adelaide when my mothers family were living there but when my mothers father died my mother and grandmother returned to Victoria to live with relatives, my father left SA and followed my mother to Victoria I remember as a child visiting my Curnow grandparents and I remember them coming over by train from SA to Vic to stay at our place I have some contact with cousins through Facebook but have drifted apart through distant and interests. A lot of questions dont get asked or are thought of when you are younger. I have looked on Family Search, Find my past, Ancestry and Wikitree which is a bit beyond me lol. I also have been trying to marry things up (excuse the pun) with Cornish OPC I am confused and I apologize for not having a better knowledge of where places are in Cornwall, My fathers sister Aunt Olive told me years ago the family was from Ludgvan, but others have said it was Paul. and some records seem to say Towednack. Thank you for the Elizabeth James hint Eddy would have been easier surname to research lol. My mother is a MacLeod, MacLeod records are a nightmare because the are all Angus, Donald Alexander etc. but eventually got somewhere with them I think. Just for interest my father would have turned 97 last Monday 9th March. He died 29th Aug 1985 He was a lovely kind man who would do anything for anyone. He is sadly missed. Thank you all both once again. And hope you are all keeping safe and well amidst this current shocking virus pandemic. On the bright side good excuse to self isolate and study Curnows lol
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 14, 2020 0:36:48 GMT -5
The main thing is that you don't give out information about living people or information that might help identify living people but otherwise it is up to yourself how much (or little) you want to display. As I think you have now realized it is much better to research for yourself than to rely on the likes of Ancestry Family Trees. Anything that involves the work of others can be often misleading and transcripts of records are prone to errors. Sue and I (and many others on this site) have transcribed for the OPC site and I am sure we have all made errors - I certainly have done!! And FamilySearch, Findmypast and others all provide information online that has been transcribed!! Your Curnow origins - there certainly we/are Curnows at Paul and at least some have links back to Towednack but your line did originate in Towednack as far back as we have been able to determine. There is also a Ludgvan connection and you will find in the records that many of the family may have been actually born at Ludgvan but baptized at Towednack and vice versa. Many of the Curnows lived in the area of Amalebrea which is basically on the border of Towdnack and Ludgvan. James vs Eddy - from your comment I think I can safely assume that you have not tried to trace Eddy family links! From personal experience I have a feeling that the James family would probably be the easier to work on. CT
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 14, 2020 4:22:20 GMT -5
Thank you CT All the people I mentioned are no longer with us. I am impressed that Sue knew my family when it has been such a long time since they called Cornwall home. (wondering if there are distant relations in Cornwall today. would probably say yes) I am thinking it would not have been easy for them to leave all they knew. I have not been to Moonta but can imagine it would have been quite a shock to come from Cornwall to a place where its fairly dry and very hot in summer and I should imagine it was quite primitive at the time. No air conditioning those days and the ladies wore very inappropriate clothing. Moonta is now a very historic town It is part of the Copper Triangle and named Little Cornwall. Every second year they hold a KERNEWEK LOWENDER there the next one is in 2021 Moonta at one stage was the second largest town in South Australia and had the largest copper mine in the Commonwealth. It is on my bucket list to go there. I would like to visit some family graves there knowing now who they are. (Have put flowers on their graves via Find a Grave) On my grandmothers side I have Jeffery (Illogan), Carbis, Towan Balhatchet etc so a big piece of my heritage is Cornish, as is part Scottish as grandfather (mothers father) was from Assynt I have relatives at Ullapool but sadly dont know them. The rest of me is English with a small amount of Irish. If my ancestors had not left UK i guess I would not be here now writing this and I very grateful they chose to come to Australia. But our heritage will always be part of who we are. From what I can see most of the Curnows seem to trace to John Curnow and Lady Joan Martin (she would be the ancestor of Dr Martin I think) Only joking love that show. I would be grateful if you could give me some addresses of where I can find acurate information. Thank you kindly best wishes Laurin
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 14, 2020 9:52:44 GMT -5
Hi everyone again. I feel I am going to be a serial pest. But its the time difference 1.32am here I have discovered the marriage information re Thomas and Elizabeth (James) Curnow. They were married in the Registry Office at Penzance in 1851 Parents of Elizabeth, Richard James wife Jennifer Nicholls. However, I am still unable to find the correct Thomas. Seems at the time of the marriage they were living at Halsetown I do not know the areas of Cornwall so at some disadvantage. I would think the Thomas I am seeking was born around 1828 to 31 as Elizabeth was born in 1831 I have found records of the following Thomas Curnow born in this era. Son of James and Elizabeth from Breage born 1829 Son of Bridget and George of Penrith born 1829 son of Michael and Sarah born 1829 also of Penrith, Thomas Curnow born 1828 only other person listed on the census is a young girl named Elizabeth who is 11. and at Ludgvan Thomas son of John Curnow and Mary born 1828 and last one Thomas son of Thomas and Grace Ludgvan. I dont know if I am on the right track I suspect its one of the Ludgvan Curnows as Ludgvan has been mentioned before by my Aunt Thank you
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 14, 2020 16:30:10 GMT -5
Well, this is a new one!!! I don't know where it came from (esplecially 'Lady' Joan Martin) but ………………. Your Curnow family actually traces back to a Thomas Curnow and his wife Catherine (MN unknown) at Towednack. (Catherine died at Towednack in 1635 and Thomas in 1643.) Their son Thomas married a Joan Martin and she may well have been a lady but I very much doubt a 'Lady'. But it is not this Thomas who is your ancestor but his brother Robert. More of all that later once Sue has guided you through the rest of the maze. I don't want to give too much away but just to help you along a little - you are looking at the marriage of Thomas Curnow and Jane Grenfell at Ludgvan in 1825 for the parents of your Thomas. And buy the way, Thomas Curnow married for a second time at Moonta in 1868 to Emma Rowe was from Perranuthnoe in Cornwall. And just to add a couple of teasers for you - on your direct line (as Sue and I worked it out a few years back) you are heading for a direct link with one of Sue's ancestors. On that same line and a couple of generations further back you will run into a distant connection with me via the marriage of Wiliam Curnow and Jone Trewhella at Towednack in 1731. The link to Sue is very much closer than the link to me but it is still there. CT
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 14, 2020 17:40:48 GMT -5
Good morning CT Thank you so much for replying and trying to help me. So it would seem you probably have a lot asking the same questions. Would you believe I sat up the whole night reading threads. Yes I discovered Thomas is a child of Thomas and Jane Grenfell (Curnow) from one of your threads cheating I know I am sorry. But I was becoming bald by ripping my hair out in frustration, as my quest is not a recent one I have been trying for find information for years. (Unsuccessfully) The thread strangely enough is from a lady in NSW and she talks about her family having a hotel in Katoomba, which is in the Blue Mountains in NSW. I can say that as a child I stayed overnight at the Katoomba Hotel with my parents on a trip to Sydney small world. The lady also mentioned Hill End there are 2 Hill Ends in Australia to the best of my knowledge one in NSW and one in Victora. I do know that some people who were at the gold fields of Ballarat and Bendigo moved to Hill End in Vic as Gold was discovered at Walhalla. I also know the Thomas Curnow of Ned Kelly fame, taught at schools in Gippsland under an assumed name. I am a Gippslander too so have some knowledge of this. I am sorry re Joan Martin I got ahead of myself and once again cheated by looking at the ancestors I have found on Family Search. Of course Joan Martin is a lady (female) but probably not a titled one. Afterall we are descended from King Arthur right. I did not know Thomas remarried. I thought it strange that Thomas and Elizabeth married in a Registry Office. I am really happy to have a connection to you and Sue.albeit a distant one. I am doing this research for my children and hope that they will one day show some interest in who they are, as I am now retired have some time to do it. Once again jumping ahead of myself probably jumping too far I have seen the name Baragwanath in lines I do not know how much you know about some of the people who migrated to Aust so I have enclosed this link. of may or not be of some interest to you. adb.anu.edu.au/biography/baragwanath-william-5122 I am now keeping vampire hours awake all night and need to sleep. Take care and thank you very much for your help. extended also to Sue
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Post by zibetha on Mar 15, 2020 2:10:59 GMT -5
Dear MC-- I think serial pest translates to "cousin"
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 15, 2020 2:51:11 GMT -5
We are always happy to help so keep on reading and ask any questions you want. I will still leave it with Sue, as the Curnow expert, to guide you along but I will be keeping an eye on the thread and will have input as necessary. Now, just before I get stuck into some other projects - I am going to MOVE THIS THREAD to a more appropriate place. I will wait a few hours before doing so and will leave a notification message when it is done but the thread will be moved to the CURNOW SECTION which you will find at the bottom of the home page under 'Surnames of General Interest'. That will help try and keep all Curnow related information in the one location. CT
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 15, 2020 3:53:21 GMT -5
Hello nice to meet you too ZU x I am sorry if I sound flippant, it is just that we have had so much worry and drama in Austraia recently. With shocking bush fires about 90 miles from me making everyones lives a misery, having a daughter living in one of these areas (luckily she and her family were ok) and then my other daughter was caught in the middle of Cyclone Blake and her place of employment was destroyed when a tree fell through the roof luckily no one was at work at the time Now all of us all over the world are coping with the threat of Coronavirus. Supermarket shopping etc is nightmare as you probably all know and is a major worry to us all. Everything seems gloom and doom. So I was just trying to be a bit light. I have been searching on and off for a few years and now with the records being on line have become more active with my searching. I totally agree and definately will be checking things out instead of adding randomly. But me being me I just cant resist looking at the extended family trees in the genealogy section on Family Search.I would compare myself to a big kid who sees a block of chocolate on the table and after being told to leave it alone sneaks a bit when no one is looking. I do not know what things people belonging to boards are interested in I have a photo of my great grandfather William (he is the child William who arrived in Australia on the Queen Bee in 1864/5)with parents Thomas and Elizabeth Curnow I do not know if you are interested in this sort of thing. The photo was probably taken approx 1890 to early 1900's and is of great grandfather William Curnow great grandmother Mary Ann my grandfather and his siblings. I am happy to share this with other interested members. I do not have any questions at present but no doubt I will proabably seek help again and will keep in touch. I am excited to know more about who I am and proud of ancestors who live on through us all. Thank you very much for everything so far non serial pest cousins lol Keep safe and well kind regards from Laurin
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Post by zibetha on Mar 15, 2020 5:07:31 GMT -5
Hey, Laurin, You don't sound flippant in the least bit. One thing I love about my Cornish ancestors is their strong sense of humor. I am a yankee who grew up with Tuesday as pasty night. You are among friends here -- don't hesitate to post. We are here to collaborate.
As my mom would have said, Cheers and Hallelujah! aka Welcome aboard.
Zib
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Post by moontacurnow on Mar 15, 2020 5:59:17 GMT -5
Once again thank you to all CT Sue and ZU I will look forward to threads in the Curnow section their new place. ZU I have a cousin in USA she is a granddaughter of my fathers brother Lennell. Lives in Florida. Once again please keep safe and well in these worrying times. Cheers
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Post by zibetha on Mar 15, 2020 6:35:07 GMT -5
Good to hear back from you. If you want to send me a name or more via personal message, I will be happy to see what I can search out for you in the USA.
Z
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