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Post by greyroamer on Jan 25, 2020 3:36:12 GMT -5
I have come across a reference to a place name that I can't seem to track down.
In the Visitations of Cornwall in 1530, under the heading of "Moyle of St Austell" there is a reference to Oates Moyle of Rosgerence.
I have been unable to find any references to "Rosgerence" (or variations) and wondered if anybody on the forum had come across it. I have a feeling that it may not have been a place or parish, but perhaps a farm, manor or estate. I am assuming from the reference, that it would have been in the St Austell area.
Regards, Mike
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Post by roadrunner on Jan 25, 2020 7:48:03 GMT -5
I have come across a reference to a place name that I can't seem to track down. In the Visitations of Cornwall in 1530, under the heading of "Moyle of St Austell" there is a reference to Oates Moyle of Rosgerence. I have been unable to find any references to "Rosgerence" (or variations) and wondered if anybody on the forum had come across it. I have a feeling that it may not have been a place or parish, but perhaps a farm, manor or estate. I am assuming from the reference, that it would have been in the St Austell area. Regards, Mike
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Post by zibetha on Jan 25, 2020 22:27:48 GMT -5
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Post by greyroamer on Jan 25, 2020 22:43:10 GMT -5
Hi Zib, thanks for that. Yeah, "visitations" is where I came across the reference, but I was wondering where, or what, it was. I am assuming from the language that it was a manor or estate, presumably near St Austell, although later references refer to Tregowey, which I believe is in Duloe. On top of all that, the seat of the Moyle's of Bake is near St. Germans. It's all too hard, and there are no verifiable references to any of these people (before 1450) anyway. Just idle speculation on my part, but I just wondered if anybody had come across other references.
Regards, Mike
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Post by lipkatatar on Feb 9, 2020 17:11:35 GMT -5
There are numerous references to an Odo Resgerens in the late 14th - early 15th centuries. These refer to an individual rather than a property. 1380- Odo Resgerens v. William, Prior of Bodmin; Griffin the Priores servant of Bodmin; John Hoper; and William Clerk the Priores servant of Bodmin. Complaint of trespass and false imprisonment. aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/R2/KB27no510/aKB27no510fronts/IMG_0124.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/R2/KB27no510/aKB27no510fronts/IMG_0125.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/R2/KB27no510/bKB27no510dorses/IMG_0374.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/R2/KB27no510/bKB27no510dorses/IMG_0375.htm1397- Michael son of Odo de Resgerens is involved in a property deal with John Arundell of Laherne concerning land at St Columb Major. 1405- Odo Resgerens witnesses property transfer around St Columb involving John Arundell 1408- Odo Resergens witnesses several property transfers involving lands around St Columb Major. 1415/16- Ralph Kayl has a complaint of replevin (recovery of property) against Odo Resgerens. aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no618/aCP40no618fronts/IMG_1081.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no621/bCP40no621dorses/IMG_1827.htm1428- William de Trewenhelyk transferred the manor of Trewenhelek (next to St Columb Town) with appurtenances and a large number of other properties to his daughter and heir Matilda and her first husband Thomas Kenslade. Thomas Kenslade died around 1439. aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_34_37-43/IMG_0099.JPGIn 1440, Matilda took legal action against the family of Thomas Kenslade who had kidnapped her and stolen her charters. Matilda later married Odo Vivian, sometime before May 1441 when she was sued for non payment of a debt of £60. 1443- Odo Vyvyan and Matilda appear in a property deed confirming their ownership of the manor of Trewenhelek with appurtenances in Resgerens, etc. Vivian (Visitation with additions p533) mistakenly descibes this deed as evidence that Odo Vyvyan was married to Matilda, daughter of John Wydeslade. In fact, John Wydeslade had been appointed to investigate Matilda's complaint that her charters had been stolen and in this deed he is confirming her ownership of the properties in question. Any genealogical link to the Moyles involving Resgerens would have to involve a descendant of this Odo and Matilda. aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/CP25(1)/CP25_1_34_37-43/IMG_0196.htm1457- Odo Vyvyan and wife Matilda involved in property transaction with John Arundel that includes Resgerens. 1463- Odo Resgerens and wife Alice holding land in Conewartha, Ponsreles and Grasten in a rental survey of Arundell lands in Conarton. I do not know where this Odo fits in. 1433- Resgerens associated with Respery in the manorial records of the Arundells of Laherne. 1462- Resergens associated with Respery in the manorial records of the Arundells of Laherne. 1469- Resergens associated with Respery in the manorial records of the Arundells of Laherne. In the 17th to 19th centuries there are many documents involving the Vyvyan family connected to Resurrance that is identified in the National Archives as being Resgerens. There is a farm and a wood named Resurrance about 5 miles south of St Columb Major.
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Post by lipkatatar on Feb 10, 2020 9:18:08 GMT -5
I have come across a claim in a book by Gilbert Doble that there were in fact two Rosurrances: one in St Columb Major and one in St Enoder. Gilbert Hunter Doble, Saints of Cornwall, Volume 3, Saints of the Fal, 1960. Page 83, footnote (Snippet view). "Gerent or Gerens may have been a not uncommon name in Cornwall in early times. Rosurrance in St Columb Major was Rosgerens in 1327 and 1346, and Resgeryns in 1434. It must be a purely secular name (the Heath or Ford of Gerens). There is another Rosurrance in St Enoder." In Polsue's History of Cornwall, Vol 1, p226, he describes a legal dispute involving Rosurrans. He describes how the rents of the lands of Resurrans had been endowed to support the Trinity Chantry at St Columbs. After the dissolution of the Chantry, the rents were given to the Pomeroy family who sold the rents to a William Saplyn who in 1554 made the rents over to the trustees of St Columb's parish. There was then a legal dispute between the trustees and the lord of Resurrans over the rents which was resolved in favour of the parish. One of the issues raised in the dispute between the Kenslade family and Matilda Trewenhelek, over a hundred years earlier, was the fact that lands had been endowed to the chantry at St Columb's, so it is possible that this dispute refers to the Trewenhelek lands in St Columbs that came into possession of the Vyvyan family. Possibly, the pleadings in the dispute described by Polsue would clarify who the lord of Rosurrans was in 1554, and which Rosurrans was the subject of the dispute.The images will possibly be among the (largely unindexed) Common Plea cases on the AALT site. A pre-nuptial agreement from 1838 mentions Rasurrants/Rosurrants/Treserants in St Columb Major. The full document is in the Cornish Centre Archives, ref:WH/1/5833/1-3. This may give you the actual location of the St Columb Major Rosurrance The Rosurrance situated 5 miles south of St Columb Major will probably be the St Enoder one. discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c818bc29-8a17-4c35-8eb9-52c3e104d747
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Post by lipkatatar on Feb 10, 2020 19:11:43 GMT -5
Matilda's first husband's family were Kendale not Kenslade.
Below is a summary of the dispute between Matilda and the Kendales in 1440.
Early Chancery Proceedings, File 1506.
33 Maude, late the wife of Thomas KENDALE, v. Stephen KENDALE his brother, and Edmund Kendale, priest, and brother of the latter.
Procuring from complaint a conveyance to religious uses of the manor of Trewenhelek contrary to the will of the said Thomas, who also held lands in Lostwithiel and Penlen.
34 The same v. the same. Do., threats that she was to be disposed of in marriage by William Bonevyll, knight, steward of the county, and forcible entry at Lostwithiel and seizure of deeds.
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Post by lipkatatar on Feb 12, 2020 16:08:18 GMT -5
I see from the Moyles of St Austell entry in the Visitation of Cornwall (1887 edition, p.336) that Robert the son of Oates Moyle was married to a daughter of George Denysel. If you are happy that you have a proven line back to this Robert then you may like to take the genealogy back a few centuries more. George Denysel, father of Thomasin, was married to a daughter of John Petyt of Predannek. If you check out the links below you should be able to trace a fairly well documented line back to King John.
John Maclean, History of Trigg Minor, vol 3, p334, p378. The Ancestor, vol 12, pp118-124. Visitation of Cornwall, 1869 edition, pp276-278.
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