Hancock Parsing

[ettason]

Greetings from the southern US!  Have been working the Cornish branch of my family tree - so just the other day, I discovered this helpful little forum.  Nice place you keep here, Cornish Terrier  !    

To make a long story short: I've got a couple of loose ends with surname "Hancock" in my Cornish family history, and I'm trying to discover whether (and how far back) they might connect. It's entirely possible they are only 2-3 generations separated on the tree. But determining which Mary is which, and whose Joseph was who... well, you know how that goes. And the story was honestly a bit muddled to start with.  

Anyway. The current puzzle concerns query results received from the "Person Search" of the Cornwall OPC Database. I've recreated the table below, for reference.

This search started with a Samuel Hancock who was married in 1796, Gwennap parish. I'd like to determine his family of origin. So I looked up Hancock baptisms between 1760 and 1790, hoping to catch a group of siblings with the same Hancock parents. Filtering out the more distant parishes (Liskeard, St. Austell, etc.)... here are the resulting records most of interest to me:

YEAR	Parish Or Reg District	Forename	Surname	Father	Mother
1774	Stithians	Samuel	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenepher
1774	Stithians	Joseph	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenepher
1774	Stithians	?--muel	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenepher
1776	Stithians	Ann	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1776	Stithians	?---	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jeneph
1777	Stithians	Joseph	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1778	Stithians	Mary	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1778	Stithians	Mary	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenepher
1779	Stithians	William	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1780	Stithians	William	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1780	Stithians	Mary	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jenefer
1782	Gwennap	Richard	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1782	Gwennap	Richard	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1785	Gwennap	Mark	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1785	Gwennap	Mark	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1786	Gwennap	Mary	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1786	Gwennap	Mary	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1787	Gwennap	Mark	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane
1787	Gwennap	Mark	HANCOCK	Joseph	Jane

So with that, my question boils down to this:  Could Jane and Jenefer have been the same person?

I think the answer is yes... but I have to make up a little story of my own to explain things. The Stithians records all stipulate "sojourner," suggesting the baptized child lived outside the parish. So, could the young couple have returned to the family church to baptize their first children early in their marriage?  Would that have been common?  I can imagine the mother having been known as "Jenefer" in her home Parish... but only as "Jane" in the town she came to with her husband. Would that make sense?  

Looking for reasonable takes on this either way, as I've had a number of Marys, Richards, Samuels, and Josephs to sort through already.  But any thoughts are appreciated! 

[londoner]

Yes I would say it is highly likely that Jane and Jenefer are the same person, especially as she was Jane ( Jenkins) when married in 1773.I have a Jane in my tree who was also known as Jenifer ant I know this has cropped up for others.

[ettason]

Nov 15, 2019 1:40:40 GMT -5 londoner said:

Yes I would say it is highly likely that Jane and Jenefer are the same person, especially as she was Jane ( Jenkins) when married in 1773.I have a Jane in my tree who was also known as Jenifer ant I know this has cropped up for others.

Thanks, londoner !

The logic makes sense to me as well... I've just been a little hesitant to draw that conclusion, as I haven't spent much time with records from this time period. The available information is so sparse.

Further... the information on these sources conflicts somewhat, depending on where I find them.  Ancestry references up to three different wedding dates for this couple, one in Stithians (which may actually be the recording of the banns)... but also one in Wendron.  The Gwennap date for the marriage as referenced on Ancestry does not match that in the OPC database (but does match that for the record labeled Wendron).

Difficult to sort out.

[Cornish Terrier]

Due to fire brigade commitments I don't have much time right now but I can throw in a couple of points.

1. Jane/Jenefer (var.) are generally interchangeable and you may even see the same person marrying twice but using Jane one time and Jenefer the next. Or she may be recorded as one but sign as the other! Also worth taking into consideration is that I have seen families having both a 'Jane' and a 'Jenifer' both living so you do have to be just a little careful.

2. In the case of marriage transcriptsion - I agree that where there are 2 dates given by the likes of Ancestry, FamilySearch etc. it is likely that one of those dates will be the date of the Banns. But in this case there will usually be a difference in the dates given the last Banns will have been read before the date of marriage.
But in this case you mention a third Parish which would indicate to me that this may have been the abode of either the bride or the groom. It may also be possible that Banns are read in two different Parishes depending on the origins of the parties involved.

3. 'Sojourner' - as you work through Parish records you will find references such as 'sojourner in this Parish' or 'sojourner of this Parish'. I generally read the first example ('in this Parish') as meaning the person resides elsewhere but probably works in the Parish whereas the second ('of this Parish') would indicate the person actually resides in the Parish but his/her occupation involves travel outside the Parish.

Neither can be considered as 'clear-cut' but that is the way I treat the phrases as a general rule.

CT

[ettason]

The Wendron record throws me for a loop. That one didn’t come up in the OPC database search... only appeared in Ancestry. So I’ll puzzle over that for a bit.

I do think the baptisms charted above look like they all belong to one family. Given that these are baptismal records, would it be correct to read “sojourner” as describing the child?

Looks to me like young Jenepher of Stithians parish married Joseph Hancock of Gwennap in 1773, and they settled in Gwennap (where she went by “Jane”). Their children were baptized at the church in Stithians until 1780; afterward, in Gwennap.

[Cornish Terrier]

Given that these are baptismal records, would it be correct to read “sojourner” as describing the child?

No - the term 'sojourner' refers to the father.

Prior to 1813 it was most common to merely record a baptism as (e.g.) 'John son of Fred and Mary Nurke'. Occasionally you will find something like 'John son of Fred and Mary Nurke, miller' or, as in your case, 'sojourner' and it generally reflects the occupation of the father.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

The actual entry for the baptism of Samuel Hancock in 1774 at Stithians reads:-

Samuel the son of Joseph Hancock, a sojourner, and Jenepher his wife, January 1st

CT

[ettason]

Nov 16, 2019 22:42:51 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

The actual entry for the baptism of Samuel Hancock in 1774 at Stithians reads:-

Samuel the son of Joseph Hancock, a sojourner, and Jenepher his wife, January 1st

CT

Lol. Fantastic.

[ettason]

FOLLOW UP PUZZLE: A Tale of Two Josephs (or Four or Five, etc.)

I have a Joseph Hancock in my tree who died, either in 1804 or 1806... and I'd like to figure out his family of origin if I can. Information is limited for a number of reasons, and I may only be able to make a guess. But I'm trying to educate myself first.

Here's the Joseph Hancock I'm interested in:

Name:	Joseph  HANCOCK
Birth:	(unknown)
Married:	Elizabeth HARRIS    Gwennap Parish  04 Dec 1802
Children:	Elizabeth (1803)  Joseph (1804)
Death:	25 Dec 1804      or   5 May 1806

   

Elizabeth Harris Hancock remarried in early 1807 to a John Richards, and went on to bear 8 or 9 more children all surnamed Richards. I have tentatively identified the daughter Elizabeth Hancock as marrying late (age 42), to a Richard Hancock, widower, whose first wife (believe it or not) had also been born a Hancock. 

Any tips or insight into how I might identify the parents of this Joseph Hancock?

Currently my best guess is that his parents may be the Joseph and Jenefer/Jane whose children I charted upthread. That would put his birth in about 1776... making him 26 yrs old at the time of marriage to Eliz Harris.  

Thoughts?