Ann Bastian (born Northey) and her daughter Eliza

[greyroamer]

Hi everyone.

I have come up with a problem verifying the details of Ann Bastian and her daughter Eliza.

1. There was an Ann, daughter of Stephen Northey and Ann, baptised in Kea on 12 April 1803 and also an Ann, daughter of James Northey and Mary, baptised in Kenwyn on 2 January 1803.

2. A Henry Bastian married an Ann Northy in Kea on 10 February 1827 and another Henry Bastian married Ann Jennings in Kenwyn on 11 August 1827.

3. Eliza Bastian, Daughter of Henry Bastian and Anne was baptised in Gwennap on 27 June 1831, their residence was Twelveheads and another Eliza Bastian, daughter of Henery Bastian and Anne was baptised in Chacewater on 8 February 1831, their residence was also Twelveheads

If these places were widely separated, it would be easy to eliminate one or the other, but Kea, Kenwyn, Gwennap, and Chacewater are all within about 5 km of Twelveheads.

With the marriage, I am (reasonably) happy to accept that the Kea Ann Northey was the one married in Kea. Cornwall OPC has them both residents of Kea at the time of their marriage, and the original parish register of the Bastian/Jennings marriage has them both OTP Kenwyn.

The mystery is with Eliza -- which one was the daughter of Ann Northey? the one baptised in Gwennap or the one baptised in Chacewater? I have scratched my head, but can't think of any way to verify which was which. It doesn't really matter, I suppose, because Eliza emigrated to South Australia with the rest of the family and the line is clear from that point, so I am sure that the Eliza Bastian in my family if the daughter of Ann Northey, it's just the baptism I can't verify.

Can anyone give me a hint as to any other source I might be able to use?

Regards, Mike

[spikeharwood]

This line of Bastians has puzzled me for some time. Were the parents of your Henry, Joseph Bastian and Jenefer Skewes?
And have you found any link between your Bastians and Richard Bastian who also came out to SA?
There has been a line of Bastians who also used the name Bastard. Have you seen that name in your line anywhere?
If you've done a DNA test I have a database of over 20 Bastians who link via paper trail and DNA.

[greyroamer]

Hi Spike, Yes, as far as I can tell, Henry's parents were Joseph and Jenefer Jane Skewes. There was another Henry baptised in 1804, son of Henry and ann, but MY Henry died in 1858 at the age of 58, so I am pretty sure he was the 1800 baptism to Joseph and Jane (Jenefer).

Richard was married to Jane Julian in 1844, so I would assume that he was a lot younger than Henry and may either be the son of John and Mary, bp. 1813 in Germoe, or son of Richard and Margery, bp. 1819 in Crowan.

I haven't gone as far as a DNA test at this stage - too scared of what I might find.

Mike

[spikeharwood]

Richard Bastian was the son of John Bastian and Mary Lobb. His sister Alice married Jane's brother Hannibal Julian.
Hannibal and Alice were my 3xgreat grandparents.

[greyroamer]

Roger that

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Mike - just when exactly did your Eliza and her family come out to South Australia? Knowing that might help solve the problem as would a list of her siblings and where they were all baptized.

As a starting point I have checked the 1841 Census and, unless there are illegible pages or totally incompenent transcribers involved, I can find just one Eliza that is a match for the two you have described.

1841 Census
Kerly Downs, Kea
Henry BASTIAN, 40, copper miner
Ann do., 40
Elizabeth do., 12
Mary do., 11
Eliza do., 10
Jane do., 7
Henry do., 4
Alfred do., 1

These children appear to equate to the following baptisms:-

Elizabeth bp. 24th April 1828 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kea
Mary Anne bp. 23rd June 1829 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kea
Eliza bp. 27th June 1831 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Twelveheads Kea
Jane bp. 10th June 1835 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kirly Common
Henry bp. 4th August 1837 Chacewater s/o Henry and Ann of Kirley
Alfred bp. 22nd March 1840 Truro Wesleyan s/o Henry and Ann of Twelveheads (born 24th September 1839)

Other baptisms which could be fo eitherr family are:-

Ann bp. 5th October 1828 Chacewater d/o Henry and Ann of Kea
Eliza bp. 8th February 1831 Chacewater d/o Henry and Ann of Twelveheads
Henry bp. 17th July 1833 Chacewater s/o Henry and Ann of Kea
James bp. 23rd May 1834 Chacewater s/o Henry and Ann of Twelve Heads
Caroline bp. 31st July 1844 Chacewater d/o Henry and Ann of Kea

1851 Census
Creegbraws, Kenwyn
Henry Bastian, head, marr., 47, copper miner, Kenwyn
Ann do., wife, marr., 47, Kenwyn
Eliza do., daughter, unm., 20, mine girl, Kenwyn
James do., son, unm., 17, copper miner, Kenwyn
Jane do., daughter, unm., 14, mine girl, Kenwyn

And having laid that all out I now clearly see your dilemma - both Elizas were baptized within about five months and in each case the family was living at Twelveheads! Of course it is possible that these two baptisms belong to the same child with the earlier being a private baptism and the latter public. This can sometimes happen even if neither is noted as being 'private'.
But it is curious that I can find just one of the two families in the 1841 Census and unfortunately Rootsweb is currently down so I can't check the Cornwall Online Census Project transcriptions which are much more accurate than Ancestry.

I have now found your family in the Ships List which indicates it is the first family listed above in the 1841 Census. I will attempt another reconstruction of the baptisms based on that:-

Elizabeth bp. 24th April 1828 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kea
Mary Anne bp. 23rd June 1829 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kea
Eliza bp. 27th June 1831 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Twelveheads Kea
Jane bp. 10th June 1835 Gwennap d/o Henry and Ann of Kirly Common
Henry bp. 4th August 1837 Chacewater s/o Henry and Ann of Kirley
Alfred bp. 22nd March 1840 Truro Wesleyan s/o Henry and Ann of Twelveheads (born 24th September 1839) - birth registered September Qtr 1839
Joseph (no baptism found) - birth registered June Qtr 1842
Caroline bp. 31st July 1844 Chacewater d/o Henry and Ann of Kea - birth registered June Qtr 1844

Based on Eliza being age 17 on arrival in SA in March 1849 I have assigned her the latter of the two baptisms. If she were the earlier then perhaps her age might have been recorded as 18.

If I could find the second family in the 1841 Census it might make things a little easier but hopefully this final list will be of at least some help.

CT

[greyroamer]

Hi CT, sorry to put you to all that work, I had found all of that information, but didn't want to clog up the forum by including it all in the thread. Yes, the family arrived on the "Florentia" in June 1849 and comparing that listing:-- "BASTIAN Henry, Ann NORTHEY, Eliz, Mary Ann, Eliza, Jane, Hy, Alf, Joseph, Crln" with the 1841 census is where I came up with the majority of the info. I think that the 1851 census must be the "Other" Henry and Ann (Jennings).

Your comment about the ages shown on the ship's manifest is one that hadn't occurred to me and I think you may be onto something there - the February Eliza would have already had her 18th birthday before boarding the ship, whereas the June Eliza wouldn't have turned 18 until after sailing. I had used the "FamilyhistorySA.org" passenger listing and didn't think to double-check with the Shipslist which has the ages.

Regards, Mike

[Cornish Terrier]

Sometimes it is better to lay out all the known information for others to see. It does 'crowd' things a little sometimes but at least it provides a clearer picture and might help bring others into the discussion with more knowledge or information.

Do you know when Eliza died? If you have not already exhausted the possibility then perhaps death or cemetery records might lead to a record of her birthdate.

CT