Quick & Rosewall

[Deleted]

Thank you very much for your advice regarding Israel Quick.

I have one more question. Do you know who is the Mary Quick that married George Rosewall in 1830 at St Ives?  It is my initial opinion that she was the daughter of James Quick & Susannah Lee?

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

She was the daughter of Andrew Quick and Elizabeth Stevens who married at St Ives 17th September 1798. Mary was baptized at St Ives 7th February 1803 and was buried at Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives 27th October 1881 age 78.

I'm not quite sure yet just what happened to Mary daughter of James and Susannah but she could be the Mary Quick age 35 at Trevalgan in St Ives employed as a servant to Peter Quick. I cannot be certain of that either given that the rest of her family moved away from Cornwall.

Her sister Susannah married Michael Bishop at Teigngrace in Devon in 1832 and had at least six children. They were living at Berry Pomeroy in Devon in 1841 along with her mother Susan (Susannah) Quick.
Brother James (1806 Illogan) was a shipwright and married a girl named Catherine in Ireland where a daughter was born about 1832. The next three children were born in Wales and then another two in Scotland.
Next brother Andrew (1809 Illogan) married Hannah Head at Maker 23rd November 1835 but apparently had no children. He died in Plymouth in 1845.
Last of the family was brother Nicholas who was born in Devon 22nd December 1810 and baptized at Stoke Damerel 2nd June 1811. I have no idea what happened to him but he cannot be found in the 1841 Census.

James Quick was buried at Illogan 28th November 1810 so as his wife Susannah (nee Lee) was born at Totnes in Devon in 1776 it appears she packed up her children and moved back to Devon in time for the birth of Nicholas. Daughter Mary would have been about age 7 at that time so it would seem less than likely that she would have returned to Cornwall.

CT

[Deleted]

Good evening CT

That is very impressive work. But can I ask a question please? Which piece of information links the Mary Quick you refer to as being the wife of George Rosewall? I am obviously not looking in the right places? If the Mary you suggest was not the wife of George Rosewall who would be your next choice?

Just one other point.. could either of the Mary's mentioned above be the burial at St Ives in December 1850 aged 48 years?

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

I don't have anything specific to tie Mary daughter of Andrew Quick is the wife of George Rosewall and even in her father's Will she was named as 'daughter Mary Quick' even though she had been married about six years. Even though named as Mary Quick this is not altogether unusual and I have seen other Wills where daughters have been named with no reference to being married.

Before going on further I should point out that I have another marriage in my database for a Mary Quick born about 1804. This Mary married John Burley at Kenwyn in 1845 and stated at marriage that she was the daughter of John Quick, labourer. The 1851 and 1861 Census both show that Mary Quick was born at Ludgvan about 1804 and she died at Kenwyn in 1867 age 63.
The difficulty with this Mary Quick is that no John Quick baptized any children at Ludgvan before 1898 and there are no other Mary Quicks baptized in Cornwall between 1800 and 1810 who might possibly be this person. The logical answer therefore is that she may have been illegitimate. And she might possibly be the illegitimate Mary Nicholas baptized at Ludgvan 30th October 1803 to Ann Nicholas.

This marriage does not really have any bearing on the answer to your question but it is something that needed to be resolved. At the time of marriage the above Mary was 'of Kenwyn Street' so she is most likely the Mary Quick recorded as age 30 employed as a servant at Kenwyn Street in the 1841 Census.

Returning to your question - after reviewing the Mary Quicks again I stand by my conclusions that there are only two possible Mary Quicks to consider as the bride of George Rosewall. I also stand by my conclusion that this Mary was indeed the daughter of Andrew and Elizabeth Quick.

To review the family of James Quick and Susannah Lee - Susannah Lee was born at Totnes in Devon and baptized there 8th October 1776. She married James Quick at Maker (on the Rame Peninsula opposite Plymouth) 27th July 1800.
James Quick was baptized at St Ives 4th April 1773 son of Andrew Quick and Mary Major and he had returned to St Ives by 1803 when he baptized daughter Mary. His next daughter, Susannah, was also baptized at St Ives in 1804 but the family had relocated to Illogan by September 1806 when son James was baptized. In 1809 another son, Andrew, was also baptized at Illogan.
James Quick senior was buried at Illogan 28th November 1810 less than a month before his son Nicholas born. Susannah then returned to Devon with her children and Nicholas was born there 22nd December 1810 - he was baptized at Stoke Damerel 2nd June 1811.

On that timeline daughter Mary Quick spent only about the first 3 years of her life at St Ives and then 4 years at Illogan before moving to Devon with her mother and siblings.

Just one other point.. could either of the Mary's mentioned above be the burial at St Ives in December 1850 aged 48 years?

It does seem likely that the 1850 burial must be whichever of the two Mary Quicks did not marry George Rosewall. And the Mary buried in 1850 is, almost without any doubt, the 35-year-old servant at Trevalgan in the 1841 Census. That then indicates that the daughter of James and Susannah must have returned at some point.
But the question would be 'just when did she return'? Given her mother Susannah lived until 1846 I'd be inclined to think that she was older rather than younger and that again points to the wife of George Rosewall having been the daughter of Andrew and Elizabeth Quick.
Another possible 'key' point in this discussion is son George Rosewall for whom no baptism or birth record has been found. All Census records as well as his burial record suggest that George was born about 1821 or 1822 which is 8 or 9 years prior to the marriage of George Rosewall and Mary Quick. At that time both Mary's would have been only about 17 or 18.

I still have that 1850 burial unallocated but I have always leant towards her being the daughter of James and Susannah.

CT

[Deleted]

Good evening CT

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation once again.

Essentially there is no evidence to confirm which of the two Mary's became the wife of George Rosewall. At the moment I have the same connection that you mention but I intend to make that connection subject to more information. Hopefully the proof would lie in the death entry of the Mary mentioned who died in 1850 and then only if the entry contained the necessary information e.g. who the father was.  That will be a task for the future when some funds are available.

Like you I came to a brick wall with the Quick / Burley marriage.. unlike you I did not look for her in the later census and if I had and noted that she was of Ludgvan then I would not have made a note that she could have fitted into the family of John Quick & Grace Harris where there seems to be a shortage of baptisms between 1800 and 1806.

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

The very best you could probably hope for on the death certificate would be that the informant was a relative and that relationship was nominated. Otherwise only the abode at the time of death might be of some possible use.

Re the Burley marriage - I don't quite see how you can nominate John Quick and Grace Harris as parents of the Mary Quick who married John Burley. That John Quick was baptized at St Ives but had been born at Towednack and although Towednack. Ludgvan does share a border with Towednack but as John was baptized at St Ives it is more likely the family was in the north of Towednack Parish.

But the thing you must take into account is that John Quick had moved away from the area before 1793 which is when he married Grace Harris at St Agnes. John and Grace had eight known children all of whom were born and diligently baptized at St Agnes and Grace herself was baptized at St Agnes in 1766. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that he returned to the St Ives area at any time.

Yes, there is a gap of almost six years between daughter Jane and son Paul but that is far from unusual.

I can also add that both of John Quick's parents had died by 1785 (his mother in 1768 and father in 1785) and his brother Samuel had made his way across to the Truro District and married at Kea in 1786. He remained in the Kea, Kenwyn and Feock area until his death.

In my opinion it is more likely that John Burley's wife was an illegitimate child but that she had at least been told who her father was.

CT

[Deleted]

Good evening

My apologies for the confusion regarding John and Grace. I simply made a note against the marriage entry flagging to me a possible link to John and Grace and left it to further research to prove or disprove.  As I said in my previous email, had I followed her in the census following her marriage, I would have quickly realised that being from Ludgvan she was unlikely to be the correct person. I certainly do not disagree with your assertion that she was an illegitimate child.

In my opinion, the very best one could hope for on the death certificate is that the Mary Quick, who did not marry Mr Rosewall, was still a spinster and the certificate named her father :-) :-)

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

I realized after I had finished my post that you were aware of the John Quick and Grace Harris situation but it was a bit late by then and I was rather tired. At least we seem to be on the same page with that one.

In my opinion, the very best one could hope for on the death certificate is that the Mary Quick, who did not marry Mr Rosewall, was still a spinster and the certificate named her father :-) :-)

I gather you don't have much experience with or knowledge of UK Death Certificates? Unlike Australian certificates (and those from a few other countries) the UK death certificates do not have provision for the names of parents and in fact they are quite bare by comparison.

The only way you would find the father's name recorded on a death certificate would be if he was the informant and noted as the father on the certificate.

The UK Death Certificate has provision for the following:-

1. When and where died
2. Name and surname (of deceased)
3. Sex
4. Age
5. Occupation
6. Cause of Death
7. Signiature, description and residence of informant
8. When registered
9. Signature of registrar

That's it from 1937 through to and beyond 1946 based on certificates I have just looked at.

So in the case of Mary Quick in 1850 you would have to hope that the information was a relative of some kind and that the relationship was noted. If this Mary Quick was not a spinster then she would have been neither of the two we have been discussing. And in that case we would have been wasting quite a bit of time!!

CT

[Deleted]

Good evening

The only way you would find the father's name recorded on a death certificate would be if he was the informant and noted as the father on the certificate.

CT, I humbly suggest that the statement is simply not true.  It is quite common for younger children of both sexes, older females, wives and widows to be shown as "daughter of.. son of ... wife of... widow of" the male in the family in the category "occupation".  I would agree that it is not always the case but it is a very common practice.

The Mary Quick of 1850 must be someone and looking at the previous census more than likely to be one of the two Marys mentioned.  While it may possibly be a waste of time I would suggest that a greater waste of time would be to have the Mary Quick who died in 1850 as the wife of George Rosewall??  And the reality is that there is no information of any value to show that the current accepted connection to George Rosewall is correct. 

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

It is quite common for younger children of both sexes, older females, wives and widows to be shown as "daughter of.. son of ... wife of... widow of" the male in the family in the category "occupation".  I would agree that it is not always the case but it is a very common practice.

Younger children, wives and widows yes ..... but very, very rarely, if ever, have I seen this for an older spinster. In the first place the information has to be known by the informant and in the second place we know that the fathers of both Mary Quicks involved had been long deceased. Only the Susannah Quick was still alive and she was in Devon.

a greater waste of time would be to have the Mary Quick who died in 1850 as the wife of George Rosewall??

Mary (Quick) Rosewall of St Ives age 79 (widow of George Rosewall) was buried at Barnoon Cemetery St Ives 27th October 1881. The inscription on her headstone records that she died 22nd October 1881.

CT

[Deleted]

Good evening

I have spent quite some time going through all my old records, emails and the like from years past. I came across a number of pages clipped together relating to a to Andrew Quick of Borallan.  Included was a single page of two deaths taken from the death registers and were for two daughters of Andrew Quick -

The first was for Ann Quick at St Ives, 6th April 1841, aged 29 years, daughter of Andrew Quick, farmer, disease of the stomach, informant Andrew Quick of St Ives, present at the death.

The second was -

Mary Quick of Borallan, St Ives, 28 November 1850, aged 48 years, daughter of Andrew Quick, Farmer, deceased, asthma 14 years.

I am guessing at the time that I was not interested in this family and did nothing with it.

Trinklady

[Cornish Terrier]

Thankyou very, very much for this information which has shed a whole new light on the situation. Would it be possible for you to scan all the documents you mention and send them via email please? If so then I will contact you via PM with my email details.

The fact that Andrew Quick never named any married daughters in his Will now makes much more sense even though I have seen examples in other Wills where this did happen. The only two daughters now known to have married did so in 1841 and 1851 and so well after their father had died.

I have already made the adjustment in my database and now need to look at the George Rosewall marriage again.
It does now appear that Mary daughter of James and Susannah must have returned to Cornwall sometime before 1822. Or another possibility may be that after her father died in 1810 she was left with relatives of her father at St Ives.

Well burn me and butter me on both sides ............. I was just looking at who the possible relatives might have been and a wet fish leapt up and smacked me in the kisser!! James Quick, husband of Susannah Lee, was the brother of Andrew Quick of Borallan which means the two Mary Quicks were first cousins!!!

Not only that but George Rosewall was also a first cousin being the son of John Rosewall and Catherine Quick, she being the sister to Andrew and James.

Okay, I now have Mary wife of George Rosewall as being the daughter of James and Susannah Quick. Should any further information come to light that may necessitate another rethink then I will review everything again.

CT