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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 15:46:24 GMT -5
Good evening
I was wondering of somebody could help with the following bride:
She was named Jane Harris Quick and she married John JAMES in 1880 in the Penzance District. In the 1881 census she was only 20 years old making her birth around 1861 and recorded in the census as being born at St Ives. I cannot find her after that census.
Does anyone know who she is?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 30, 2017 17:57:59 GMT -5
To date I have not been able to identify Jane Harris Quick and she remains in my spreadsheets as an 'unknown'. However I have managed to find at least a couple more things about her as a result of your query. First of all she can be found in the 1891 Census at Wendron recorded as 'Janie'. I was able to find her by checking the GRO Index for possible children born in the first couple of years after she was married. This showed a daughter Lilian Jane born in the December Qtr of 1881 and I used that information to try and search the 1891 Census. Another two children are also in the 1891 household:- 1891 Wendron Halwin John James, head, married, 31, stone mason, born Wendron Jane James, wife, married, 29, born St Ives Lilian Jane James, daughter, 9, scholar, born Penzance John Leonard James, son, 5, scholar, born Wendron Ralph Anthony James, son, 4, born Wendron The GRO Index shows the mother's maiden name as Quick for each of the three children. Unfortunately that does not help identify Jane but it does at least offer some more information to work with. By 1901 John James was deceased but his family were at Porkellis in Wendron. Strangely, Jane is now known as 'Janie Maud James'!  There is also another child - Alice May James age 8. I have not been able to find anything after 1901. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 30, 2017 18:09:11 GMT -5
I have just found an Alice May James age 29 arriving in New York in 1923 and heading for Oakland, California. After checking FreeBMD this appears almost certainly to be the youngest child of John and Jane James.
The Passenger list shows her nearest relative at her place of origin as being her mother, Mrs J James who was then living at Blowing House, Redruth.
Alice is the only member of the family I can definitely identify in the 1911 Census at which time she was a visitor in the home of a Grace Rail (age 73) at Wendron.
CT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 15:58:46 GMT -5
Good evening
Thank you CT for that research. It is quite thorough and now I am not too sure how to proceed from here. Do you think it would be worth assuming that she is illegitimate and therefore will be recorded in the birth registers under her mothers maiden name?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 1, 2017 16:36:18 GMT -5
That is certainly a possibility that has crossed my mind but I would not want to lock it in absolutely. The problem is that I have not yet been able to identify even one possibility that might be Jane in 1871 or even 1861 if we allow that she could have been born a little earlier than suspected and thus make the Census. This might be another one that requires a marriage certificate before it can be solved but if illegitimacy is involved then there may not be a father's name recorded anyway. There is one thing that I wonder about .... might this actually be Jane Quick Harris who was born at St Ives in 1853, illegitimate daughter of Jane Harris? I know there is an age difference of 7 or 8 years but that is not unheard of and whilst I cannot find Jane Harris Quick prior to the 1880 marriage and 1881 Census appearance I likewise cannot find Jane Quick Harris after the 1871 Census.  CT |
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Post by zibetha on Jul 1, 2017 17:44:33 GMT -5
Alice May James listed her parents as John James and Lillian J Quick when she married Richard Jacob Hocking in Alameda (just south of Oakland) California in 1923. Was Lillian John's second wife?
Zib
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 18:42:54 GMT -5
Hello Zib
Alice May had a sister Lilian Jane who was born in 1881 according to the post by CT. Her father was certainly John, but her mother was Jane Harris / Jane Maude. He also said that she listed her mother as J. James of Redruth so it makes you wonder who filled in the marriage form?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 2, 2017 2:40:08 GMT -5
Jane Harris James was recorded as a widow in 1901.
I have not been able to locate this marriage on Ancestry or FamilySearch and the 1930 Census shows the groom as simply Richard Hocking. Any search for a Richard Jacob Hocking returns nothing as well but as Alice travelled to California in 1923 and apparently married soon afterwards I would expect Richard to have been a Cornishman and also recently arrived.
If you have access to an image of the marriage could you please send me a copy or point me to it so that I can see it for myself? Naming Lilian J Quick as the mother does seem a little strange given this was the name of Alice's sister.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Jul 2, 2017 2:56:03 GMT -5
Sending. It is odd but pretty clear. Z Attachments:
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 2, 2017 5:20:33 GMT -5
Okay - I have also just now found the marriage record in one of the Ancestry collections. From this record I can suggest that information in previous posts is starting to link. The parents of Richard Jacob Hocking as recorded on the marriage record of Alice May James were Richard Hocking and Annie Jacob. FreeBMD shows a marriage in the March Qtr of 1890 for a Richard HOCKING to Sarah Ann JACOB. The 1891 Census shows Richard Hocking was born at Illogan about 1865 and Sarah at Gwennap about 1866 with son Richard born at Gwennap in 1890. In 1911 this family was at North Street Redruth. And now it does start to get interesting!!!  In my efforts yesterday I had been unable to find Janie James in the 1911 Census but I expected she may have been in the Redruth area. She was certainly living at Redruth by 1923 when daughter Alice emigrated to the US. By virtue of the marriage record supplied by Zib and by my searching a little further on the Hocking family I present the following:- 1911 Census Sparnon Terrace, Redruth LILIAN JAMES, head, 46, widow, dressmaker, born St Ives Lilian EDDY, daughter, 26, widow, dressmaker, born Penzance Gladys EDDY, granddaughter, 6, at school, born Wendron [?] Jenkin(?) EDDY, grandson, 5, born Redruth This is the family of Jane Harris (Quick) James who in 1901 was known as Jane Maud James but once again we have more discrepancies. In 1901 Jane was age 39 and daughter Lilian age 19 yet here in 1911 they are 46 and 26. I can also find no record of a marriage for Lilian James to anyone named Eddy and nor can I find any record of the children in FreeBMD or the GRO Index. But I did check back to 1901 and there is no other Lilian James that might match the 1911 entry. What is also interesting as that in 1912 there is a marriage for a Lillian J James to Richard H Arthur in the Redruth district. And there is only ONE Lilian J(ane) James birth recorded in FreeBMD - and that is using a search for Lil, Lily, Lillie, Lilian and Lillian with second name J or Jane. The evidence so far all points to one conclusion and that is that Lilian Jane James was not married prior to 1912 and that she was not a widow when she did marry. It also means that the two Eddy children were most likely illegitimate with possibly someone named Eddy as the father. If their births were registered then I don't know under what names. The other interesting point here is that we now have TWO instances of Jane Harris Quick being recorded as LILIAN! CT |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 16:37:44 GMT -5
Good evening
I was just having a fresh look at this Jane Harris Quick.
She married John James , aged 21 years, a bachelor stone mason of Market Jew Street, Penzance on the 6th November 1880 at the Wesley Rock Chapel, Hea, Madron (Wesleyan Methodist). He was the son of another stone mason, William James.
Jane said that she was a 19 year old spinster also of Market Jew Street, and that she was the daughter of John Quick, a deceased farmer.
The witnesses were an Elizabeth Ann Fox, who I believe was the wife of one of the preachers, and also a Thomas Henry Glasson.
I hope this may help in the discovery of who Jane Harris Quick is.
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 5, 2017 21:18:58 GMT -5
Nope .... that is absolutely no help at all.  We are now looking for a John Quick who had to have died between around the time Jane was born (1860/1) and before she married in 1880. I have absolutely no John Quick buried during this time who could possibly have been the father. I can find no Jane of any surname born at St Ives around 1860-1862 in either the 1861 or 1871 Census who might possibly have ended up as Jane Harris Quick either. I have twisted and turned this about every way I can think of and simply cannot find a solution to the problem. I keep coming back to Jane Quick Harris and even her mother has been difficult to track down. In the 1861 Census Jane (the mother) was age 35 but after a lot of searching I think I have now tracked her down to having been born at St Ives in 1819. That would mean she was about 34 when her daughter was born. The link finally came when I located her daughter in 1871 at which time she was a 'lodger' with widowed Amy Harris. Amy was born Amy Quick and named one of her daughters as such (Amy Quick Harris). Jane Harris (1819) was the sister of Amy's husband William Harris. So, if I am right that Jane Harris Quick and Jane Quick Harris are one and the same person then we have a significant problem with her age. The birth of Jane Quick Harris was registered in the March Qtr of 1853 in which case she would have been about 27 or 28 when she married John James. But in the marriage record she stated she was age 19 and in 1881 she was age 21 and then in 1901 she was 39! With such consistency in the Census records it makes it very difficult to accept Jane Quick Harris as being the solution ..... yet I can see no other soluiton. CT |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 1:19:18 GMT -5
Good morning
If you were to accept that the birth of Jane Harris Quick was illegitimate then there are two possibilities at St Ives although most likely not farmers: John, son of Paul Quick & Mary Ann Ninnis, 1835 - 1863 John, son of John & Mary Ann Osborne, 1838 - 1865.
I do not think that they are likely but they are John Quicks whose ages and deaths make fatherhood a possibility.
But there is an interesting birth in December 1859 which does actually fit the bill....
I cannot find a death for that female and nor does she appear in the family in the 1861 census.
John of Penbeagle died in 1871.
Could she have been illegitimate?
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 6, 2017 5:24:04 GMT -5
There is almost no doubt that Jane Harris Quick was illegitimate which helps explain why she has been so difficult to identify. The first of the John Quicks mentioned above married Christian Hendy at St Ives 18th January 1862. He was also a mariner. The second of these Johns married Catherine Stevens Gregory at the Methodist New Connexion Chapel in St Ives 4th October 1863. He had a son John (1863-1864) and a daughter Mary Ann and sometime after John died his widow and daughter emigrated to Pennsylvania. Because both of these John Quicks were unmarried prior to 1862 they could be candidates to be the father of Jane Harris Quick but the fact remains that Jane herself, if born around 1859-1862 as indicted in other records, cannot be found in either the 1861 or 1871 Census - under any name! On the contrary - FreeBMD shows that a 'female Quick' died in the December Qtr of 1859 - Penzance R.D. Vol 5c Page 203. This is yet another of the multitudes of entries that cannot be found in the online GRO Index! I checked the images available with the FreeBMD entry but they are linked to pages in the 'B' and 'T' sections. I also checked the index on Ancestry - in this case the entry is also there with the same details but no image is attached. On Ancestry you can navigate your way to the images via the browse function and on doing so I discovered that there appears to be a page missing from the index where the Quicks would have been. The original St Catherine's House index books would need to be checked for this but the fact that the entry is indeed recorded in both FreeBMD and Ancestry suggest that it does exist and so removes this unnamed daughter from the equation. Also notable is that John Quick was the informant for the birth and Elizabeth (formerly Berriman) is named on the certificate as the mother. There was also another son born in 1862. CT |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 16:33:52 GMT -5
Good evening
Yes my mistake, in my excitement I completely overlooked that entry for the Female Quick in Dec 1859.
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There is also another child - Alice May James age 8.
In my efforts yesterday I had been unable to find Janie James in the 1911 Census but I expected she may have been in the Redruth area. She was certainly living at Redruth by 1923 when daughter Alice emigrated to the US. By virtue of the marriage record supplied by Zib and by my searching a little further on the Hocking family I present the following:-