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Post by jakls on Jul 1, 2017 5:32:42 GMT -5
The brother is John that could have gone to Wales but that information came from an Ancestry hint so there is a good chance of it being wrong.
Mary Jane Berryman married William Collick also from Cornwall in 1860. It looks like she migrated with some of her children arriving in Quebec 1898 & ended up in Michigan by 1899. Mary is listed in 1851 census with her Berryman family members & in both of the 1871 (Crowan) & 1891 (St Erth) census with Collick family members. The children were Anne, William, Ellen, Mary, Uriah & 2 Thomas sons??
Bridget Berryman married Richard Thomas Williams before 1867. Arrived in America around 1890 & lived in Minnesota. She is in the 1851 census as well with the Berrymans. Bridget appears in both the 1871 & 1881 (Camborne) her husband (1871 only) & her son Thomas Williams (both years).
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 1, 2017 7:36:09 GMT -5
Bridget Berryman married Richard Williams in the March Qtr of 1865 Vol 5c Page 501. That page number suggests the marriage took place in the Register Office or maybe a non-conformist chapel.
John Berryman married Alice Martins at Towednack 7th June 1862 and had three children that I know of - William John (1864), James Henry (1866) and Jane Martin (1868) all born at Towednack. In 1871 the family was at Embla in Towednack but John died sometime before the 1881 Census at which time Alice was a widow and living at Chylasson in Towednack with her three children. I cannot find a likely death for him in FreeBMD which seems to indicate he may have been somewhere overseas.
You could try searching immigration records and passenger lists to try and find him but it won't be easy. Berryman/Berriman is not the easiest name to trace given the many and varied versions of the name appearing in transcripts.
CT
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Post by jakls on Jul 1, 2017 21:35:07 GMT -5
Berryman seems a pretty common name in New Zealand & Australia so I don't know how much luck I would have.
I guess I should also be looking into the Chapple line.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 2, 2017 2:51:10 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to make your own luck in genealogy! Sure there were a number of Berrymans came to Australia and New Zealand but there were many, many more of them back in Cornwall. It can take a lot of time and effort to find the answers and it really depends on just how much you are willing to put into it. There are records available online and you have starting points so I suggest you start searching for anything that might link to George and his family. If you don't find any evidence that links then you will have at least eliminated some possibilities and can move on.
Certainly look at the Chapple family as well along with any other families that connect to you. Sometimes you have to search along way sideways before you can move back in time.
It can sometimes take many years to find the answer to one question so you just have to perservere.
CT
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Post by jakls on Jul 2, 2017 5:13:17 GMT -5
I will probably get that record later on after the family has all taken ancestry tests. It looks like some Kenifeck's came to NZ but that is the closest possible connection so far.
I will keep looking but I feel very stuck at the moment.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 2, 2017 6:06:40 GMT -5
It is simply a matter of perserverence - think of all possible avenues and explore each one and eventually something generally turns up. Start with what you do know and confirm as much as possible with original records and then use that information to work backwards (and sideways). As the picture grows so to will the clues but sometimes you have to go 'via the cape' to find what you want.
CT
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Post by jakls on Jul 4, 2017 4:32:01 GMT -5
Today I got a close DNA match to a descendant of Mary Jane Berryman.
I'm just wondering if you could share the information on the female lines you listed earlier that you said you might have. It may help with DNA research.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 4, 2017 5:30:52 GMT -5
There are lots of Berrymans (var.) and amongst them there are lots of females. If you are talking about daughters of John Berryman and Mary Ann Kenifeck then you already know as much as I do and perhaps more seeing it was you who said you found some of them in the US.
I have suggested you read the DNA thread on this forum as it will help explain the various ways matches can occur. I have only just submitted a sample and do not have results so my own DNA research is just beginning.
I try to help everybody but I can only go so far. Any thought of doing a little research for yourself??
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Post by jakls on Jul 4, 2017 6:44:36 GMT -5
Thanks for your help so far, I have really appreciated it & good luck with your DNA research.
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Post by jakls on Oct 28, 2017 3:07:56 GMT -5
Just thought I would give this a little update if that's ok. I have received copies of records and it all seems to match up. The only discrepancy is Christiana Chapple's mother who is listed as Margaret Williams (on a NZ record) but perhaps that is an error.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 28, 2017 4:37:14 GMT -5
I cannot find any reason to suggest why Christiana's mother should be recorded as a Williams. When married she was a spinster and stated her father was James Tregear and in the 1851 Census she was (supposedly) age 33 and born at Morvah. (In 1861 Margaret/Peggy stated she was only age 40!!)
There was a James Tregear married at Morvah in 1805 to Patience Edwards but only four children appear to have been baptized to them with daughter Patience being the last in 1813. One of the online family trees on Ancestry suggests this daughter was Patience Margaret Tregear but I have seen no evidence so far to support that. However, I can find no marriage and no burial for Patience so it is possible this 'might' be Margaret especially given her apparent tendency to 'misquote' her age in later years.
In the Census records Margaret Chapple (nee Tregear) was generally recorded as Peggy but the last I can find her is in 1871. There appears to be no other record for her in Cornwall so perhaps she also went to New Zealand in which case her death or burial information might be informative.
CT
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Post by jakls on Oct 28, 2017 21:29:46 GMT -5
The record in NZ is Christiana Chapple's death certificate so perhaps its a family error.
The family tree you mention could be mine but I have seen another with that information as well. I thought that was most likely because of the census records of Grace Chapple (Christiana's sister). Hopefully I have this all right.
In 1851 - Grace is recorded at St Ives with Christiana & parents Joseph & Peggy. 1861 - I haven't found her. In 1871 - Grace is possibly working as a servant in Dawlish, Devon? In 1881 - Grace is recorded as a housekeeper/niece to a William Trewern at St Buryan.
William Trewern was married to Elizabeth Edwards Tregear (the sister of Patience Margaret Tregear). In 1881 Grace marries James Tregear Trewern (William & Elizabeth's son) and her father is recorded as Joseph Chapple. I think I have now also found Margaret/Peggy in 1891 living with James & Grace Trewern at St Buryan (recorded as Margaret Chapel).
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 29, 2017 4:57:38 GMT -5
I just found Grace Chapel in the 1861 Census - she was at Tringey in Phillack as a servant to John and Jane Thomas. She is recorded as age 14 with birthplace Gwinear but it is almost undoubtedly your Grace and then in 1871 you have correctly identified her at Dawlish in Devon. After checking the 1881 Census along with marriage and burial records I also agree that Grace was the niece to William Trewern at St Buryan. Elizabeth Trewern was buried at St Buryan in 1880 at age 70 which fits with the daughter of James and Patience Tregear. It is unfortunate that Elizabeth Edwards Tregear dropped the Edwards from her name prior to marriage but there is little doubt about the conclusions. The one problem with the next conclusion is that it relies on an assumption but with no further information about Patience Tregear after her baptism in 1813 and no information about Margaret Tregear prior to her marriage we must assume that Patience and Margaret may be the same person. All other details, except for Margaret's age, certainly point to this possibility. Yes, I would agree that is her - but where was she before this AND why cannot I not find a death or burial record for her? The one thing I do notice is that her age is again consistent with a birth around the 1817-1819 period so for the time being I have decided to add her to my database as a different person to Patience Tregear. CT BTW - I did find one possible reason why the Williams name appeared on Christiana's death certificate. Her mother had an elder sister named Grace (1805 Morvah) who married Samuel Williams at Madron in 1828. Samuel died at Tregaminion in 1866 and Grace also at Tregaminion in 1870 so the family would have all living close together at Morvah for some time. In fact all the children of James and Patience Tregear would probably have been born at Tregaminion.
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Post by jakls on Oct 30, 2017 8:46:58 GMT -5
Thanks for all of your help. I think I will keep her as Patience Margaret for the time being but at least I know I am on to the right family.
Do you know if parish records (or any records really) are available to the public in Cornwall? I have a family member that may go to there in the near future.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 30, 2017 15:17:10 GMT -5
Many of the Cornwall Parish Records up to around 1900-1910 are available on FamilySearch. Images of the original records are available and can be downloaded. www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1769414Not all records have been transcribed but you can browse the images via a link at the bottom of the page that this link opens. In the grey section at bottom you will see 'View Images in this Collection' just click on the link 'Browse through 202,325 images' and you will be taken to another page giving you the option to look at either Devon or Cornwall records. The Devon records are only a couple of Parishes that were once part of Cornwall but clicking on 'Cornwall' will bring you to the list of Cornish Parishes containing available records for each. Whilst most records are available via this link there are some that are not. If there are any that you are particularly interested in and they are not available via the above then please let me know. If the records you are interested in can be viewed via a different path I will be able to show you how to get to them. If actually in Cornwall then all the registers are available at the Cornwall Record Office in Truro. If visiting then you will need to make contact in advance in order to make bookings. CT
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