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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 5:02:00 GMT -5
Good morning
Has anybody done any work on John Michell Quick? In particular what happened to Mary Polmear Noall, his first wife, before he married his second wife Miss Mary Jane Veal in 1887. One child to his first wife and three to his second.
Where was he in the 1881 census? Did he desert Mary?
Is it possible that it was this Mary who married Richard Williams in 1880 and appears in the 1881 census as Mary P. Williams? Two children Martha and Richard Williams.
Karlan
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 4, 2017 5:36:42 GMT -5
Hi Karlan - much of this has been discussed in other threads in the Quick forum. I'm not sure that I found John Quick in 1881 but if I did then the information should be in one of those threads. But Mary certainly married Richard Williams in 1880 and had the two additional children. I don't have the exact details but Mary died in 1907 and is registered as Mary Polmear Williams age 58 in the September Qtr.
AHA - I have now found a burial for Mary! She was buried at Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives on September 6th 1907 in plot 0-6-D (Section O Plot 6D) and is recorded in a transcript of that register as 'Mary V Williams'.
CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 15:38:06 GMT -5
Thank you for your help.
I had a look but did not find the discussion you referred to.
I have calculated Mary Polmear Noall to be the daughter of John Noall and Eleanor nee Trevorrow.
She married John Quick in August 1872 at the Zion Chapel of St Ives. They then had one son John Quick some three months later. In 1881 and 1891 this young John is found at the house of his aunts, first Mary M. Uren and then Agnes Thomas. John senior is likely to be overseas during the 1881 census and as far as Mary is concerned has either deserted her or is dead, she subsequently marries Richard Williams in 1880 most likely at the Register Office. John Quick senior reappears in 1887 and marries Mary Jane Barnes Veal. In the 1901 census he is listed as a gold miner which suggests that he was overseas at some stage.
Somewhere in all that there will be an interesting story as in the 1901 census he was at The Stennack and she was at Street an Garrow - both in St Ives.
Karlan
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 4, 2017 17:47:19 GMT -5
You are correct about the identity of Mary Polmear Noall. She was born in 1849 but I don't have any details other than what is in FreeBMD or the GRO Index at this stage. You mention she married John Quick at the Zion Chapel in St Ives - do you have further details or, perhaps, a copy of the marriage certificate by any chance? If you do have the certificate then a copy would be appreciated as I have plans to try and create a spreadsheet of all Registry Office and Non-conformist Chapel marriages for the Penzance District once I have finished with Redruth/Illogan area. Another interesting point with John Michell Quick is that he died in 1911 at The Stennack. Probate of his Will was granted to Mary Jane Barnes Veal, spinster!! What has me curious is that this was the name of his second wife and I have so far been unable to find any trace of another of the same name. So was there another Mary Jane Barnes Veal(e) ..... or was this actually John's widow? CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 15:20:52 GMT -5
Good evening
I have no other details than a diary note taken quite some years ago most likely from an email received. In the note I have written: Zion Chapel at St Ives, 18th August 1872, Lady Huntingdon rite, son of Thomas, tin miner, daughter of John, a fisherman. Sorry but nothing else.
If John Michell Quick was not legally able to marry his second wife due to Mary Noall still being on the scene then perhaps she was in fact a spinster?
Karlan
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 6, 2017 6:25:14 GMT -5
Thanks Karlan that is more than I had yesterday. No, that doesn't work - remember that Mary (his first wife) was remarried to Richard Williams in 1880 and John's second marriage took place seven years after that in 1887 which would suggest a divorce. CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 14:00:12 GMT -5
Good evening
You are most likely correct, however Mary married in 1880 and John so far has been unable to be located in the census of 1881 and could therefore be overseas. It is possible that Mary believed herself to be a widow when she married, only to have John reappear in 1887. It is a pity that we cannot see what John's condition was said to be in his second marriage.
Karlan
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 15:51:35 GMT -5
Hello
I would not be quick to agree to it being a divorce. One child to them in 1872 and then no mention of John in the 1881 census but a later census referring to him as a gold miner so suggesting he had been overseas. I would suggest that Mary married believing she was a widow in 1880 - or that she had been deserted.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 10, 2017 18:44:57 GMT -5
That may be ..... but divorce was not exactly rare even in those days. And if she were not divorced then the reappearance of John to remarry in 1887 might have been more than a little awkward for all concerned. (Judiciary included if he had been declared dead!!! ) You also need to consider the fact that John may have been back in Cornwall for a number of years before his 1887 marriage. Perhaps what you need to consider is a search of Newspapers for both 1880 and 1887 to see if details of the marriages can be found or even any other article concerning John Michell Quick or even Mary. CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 16:07:10 GMT -5
Good evening
As you suggested I looked through the various newspaper sites but I could only find that newspaper reference to the 1887 marriage at the Wesleyan Chapel, Penzance.
I also found that Probate that you referred to.. and as you say it is clearly Mary Jane Barnes VEAL, spinster - all her first names and her maiden name. I am convinced by that legal document that if they were married in 1887 then they got unmarried before 1911 as I cannot see how else Mary Jane became a spinster again.
I would love to know what condition John gave himself at his second marriage... widower?? or maybe bachelor???
The other interesting point is the first child John Quick. He was never with his mother Mary in any census but always with the sisters of his father. I would love to know the significance of that decision.
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 11, 2017 17:13:13 GMT -5
Although she does have the same name I am far from convinced that the Mary Jane Barnes Veal, spinster, mentioned in the Probate is the same person who married John Michell Quick in 1887. And there are two records that would appear to support my conclusions.
1. IN the 1911 Census Mary Jane Quick can be found at Stennack, St Ives along with her two living children - Thomas Michell Quick and Garnet Quick. In that Census she is clearly described as WIDOW. 2. When she was buried in 1947 the Barnoon Cemetery Register records her as WIDOW.
IF it is actually John Michell Quick's wife to whom probate was granted then I would suspect that naming her as 'spinster' and under her maiden name might be an error. Probate was granted just 11 days after John was buried and the Census was taken just two months later and, as mentioned above, she was then recorded as a widow.
I think the marriage record as well as a copy of John Quick's Will might be both somewhat enlightening.
CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 17:35:35 GMT -5
Good evening
In the 1911 census the information provided was by the householder and the information provided at the burial was at best a grand child as the son Thomas died during the war. However the will was a legal document completed when both parties were still alive. It is the only reliable piece of evidence as all the rest are heresay in my opinion. Getting the condition of Mary Jane (i.e. spinster) as well as her surname (i.e. Veal) are not mistakes you would expect from a legal document.
On another matter, are you aware of who the John Quick, bachelor, was that married Elizabeth Ann Nankervis, spinster, in April 1885 in Penzance?
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 16, 2017 18:49:01 GMT -5
Yes, and that householder was Mary Jane herself stating she was widowed. True - but whoever that informant was knew her as Mary Jane QUICK which is how her death is registered in the GRO Index. Also true - but you must remember that the only information we have regarding the Will is from the TRANSCRIPT provided for the National Probate Calendar. I still think the only way we might be sure is if we could see the actual Marriage and Death Certificates as well as a copy of the Will of John Michell Quick. In the meantime I am inclined to keep in mind the possibility that there may have been another person known as Mary Jane Barnes Veal who was indeed a spinster in 1911. As with the widow of John Michell Quick this person may not necessarily have been recorded as Mary Jane Barnes Veal. We could argue this in never ending circles ............. The quick ( ) answer to that is No! However I suspect that he may have been the son of James Quick and Ann Bottrell baptized at St Ives 2nd September 1845. This marriage took place at Penzance St Mary 23rd April 1885 at which time John Quick was 'of full age' and living at Penzance whilst Elizabeth Nankervis was resident at St Ives. James Quick is named as the father of the groom and Thomas Nankervis father of the bride. Conclusions I made when I did some work on this last year were that Elizabeth Ann Nankervis was probably baptized at Halsetown 6th December 1858 (born St Ives 1849) daughter of Thomas Nankervis (miner and carpenter) and his wife Mary Ann nee Jenkyns. CT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 5:21:08 GMT -5
Good morning
Yes I would agree with all of that - it is a pity that James is not easily found in the census either before or after his marriage where his age would help confirm.
Many thanks
Trinklady
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 23:24:16 GMT -5
Good morning, received this message.... it would still be interesting to know what "condition" John gave at his second marriage.
The Will of John Quick dated 16th October 1906 I John Quick of the Stennack in the Borough of Saint Ives in the County of Cornwall, Miner, hereby revoke all Testamentary writings heretofore made by me and declare this to be my last Will and Testament. I bequeath to my son Thomas Mitchell Quick my Gold Watch and Gold Chain absolutely. All my Real and Personal Estate (other than the Gold Watch above bequeathed to my Son) I give devise and bequeath unto Mary Jane Barnes Veal who has for many years past resided with me absolutely. And I appoint the said Mary Jane Barnes Veal sole Executrix of this my Will. In witness whereof I have set my hand to this my Will the Thirteenth day of October One Thousand nine hundred and six.
On the 4th day of February 1911 Probate of this Will was granted at Bodmin to Mary Jane Barnes Veal, spinster the sole Executrix.
Trinklady
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