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Post by blinky on Jan 8, 2017 18:55:32 GMT -5
I am seeking assistance tracing my great great grandfather details. Our family has been seeking information for many years searching everywhere but information about this person is very difficult to find.
His name is William Jacka (death certificate has Jackab). He died on 4 December 1890 at Goulburn hospital NSW age 48 years he was a miner. He was born in England and had been in Australia for 30 years. No marriage details shown on his death certificate. Based on this information we have deduced he was born circa 1842 and arrived in Australia circa 1860. Being a miner the family has always assumed he was from Cornwall.
We know we worked in the coal mines in Bulli New South Wales. He had a son (William Jacka Woods) who was born in 1876 in Bulli. The mother was Ann Woods born circa 1832 (nee Sullivan) in Athlone Ireland. She arrived in Australia in 1850 (18 years old) on the Tippo Sahib. She married Charles Henry Wood (Woods) in Wollongong March 1851. Charles died in 1868. We have newspaper articles placing William with Ann in Bulli around this time.
We know William (snr) left Bulli with his son and arrived in Crookwell (NSW) a few days before he died in 1890. This is recorded in the obituary published in the newspapers on the death of William Jacka Woods.
The national library of Australia cant find any record of William (snr) and his name does not appear in any passenger lists.
any assistance will be appreciated.
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 8, 2017 22:53:43 GMT -5
There are a couple of things puzzling me about all this.
Can I ask, who was the informant on the DC and does it say William Jacka Snr was in Aust for 30 years or the colony ie NSW?
There are quite a few trees online that tend to suggest that the WJ who married Ann Sullivan/Wood was William Argall Jacka and was born in South Aust in 1842. Ann is alleged to be the mother of William Jacka Jnr. She died in 1906, but, according to the obit referred to, William's mother was already dead when he and his father went to Crookwell in 1890. Of course they may have left her behind and her death may have been a convenient way of rewriting history. Or maybe there were two Ann Sullivans?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 9, 2017 0:24:28 GMT -5
Another tricky problem it would seem! Spike is quite right in querying the name of the informant at the death of William Jacka. Even if it were his son then he was born 30+ years after William and so would not be expected to have an accurate knowledge of all the details of his father's life. But there may be some light glimmering deep down the tunnel! Firstly to the 'common' perception that William might be William Argall Jacka born SA in 1842 - he married Harriet Porter Shepherdson at the Primitive Methodist Parsonage Mount Barker on 18th October 1873 and had four children born in South Australia - Mary (1874), William George (1877), Walter Joseph (1879) and Alfred John (1881). With children born in 1874 and then in April 1877 it would seem to remove him from the equation. It is just possible that William spent some time in NSW and became involved with the widowed Ann Woods resulting in the birth of William Jacka Woods. The Birth Registration number indicates William Jacka Woods was probably born late in 1876 so William Jacka would have to have been in NSW around late 1875/early 1876. But the birth of son William George Jacka back in SA in April 1877 suggests he returned to SA before July 1876. This scenario also raises more questions! The last child recorded for William Argall Jacka and wife Harriet was son Alfred in October 1881 but then on 14th October 1889 a daughter, Flora Elsie Janet Shepherdson JACKA was born to Harriet Ann Jacka (nee Shepherdson) and George FISHER at Kooringa near Burra. So - had William Argall Jacka died or had he and Harriet divorced? If William had died then of course he could not possibly have been the father of William Jacka Woods given that his father died not die until 1890! There appears to be no death recorded in South Australia for William Argall Jacka or even for a William Jacka of the right age so the door is open for speculation. But on looking at some of those Ancestry Family Trees I notice at least two with different versions of events. Both suggest that William Argall Jacka disappeared taking one son with him but one suggests the late 1880s and the other suggests that he disappeared in 1897! Certainly if the latter were correct then he cannot be the William we are searching for but even the fact that both suggest he took one son with him raises more questions!! These Trees also have conflicting death dates for William Argall Jacka - some say he is the man who died in 1890 and others that he died 11th March 1900 at Liverpool. The NSW Death Index does not provide an age for William in 1900 but it does list parents as William and Mary. Hmmm - there is yet another Ancestry Tree that claims William Argall Jacka died at Broken Hill 24th October 1911!!! But what is interesting about this is that it also shows son Alfred John Jacka was also living at Broken Hill and died there in 1926. This part echoes the information in the previous trees about William having deserted his wife taking one son with him. Checking through more of the Ancestry Family Trees I found one which states William Argall Jacka died at Liverpool in 1900. The source is quoted as being the Death Certificate. Unfortunately no image of the certificate is attached and only brief details have been recorded in the notes. Most unfortunate is that the age is not shown but it does state that death was caused by 'cancer of the tongue'. This is the death record that shows parents as William and Mary Jacka. Another Ancestry Tree indicates that William Argall Jacka died at the lunatic asylum and that he was buried in the Wesleyan Cemetery at Liverpool. Unfortunately I cannot find any link that provides details of that burial or a picture of the grave so I still have no idea of the age. It is looking more and more as if he might be eliminated from the equation but it is still not quite certain. I will study more on this and try to have some more information soon. I also have another possible scenario to look at but will take one step at a time. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 9, 2017 3:27:23 GMT -5
With quite a bit of conflicting evidence involved I think the jury must remain out on William Argall Jacka. I don't think he is the man you are looking for but it is best at this stage to keep an open mind. On the other hand I do have another potential candidate who was born in Cornwall. I have not been able to find any likely William Jacka entering Australia as yet but the William I have in mind does have a close match with a few of the key points. The one thing that must be kept in mind is that information contained in death certificates is often not totally accurate. In 1844 at Marazion a William Jacka was born to parents John and Margaret (nee Terril/Tyrrell). William was the fourth of fifteen children born to this couple who moved to Towednack around the mid-1840s and then to Ludgvan around where John died in 1865. Of the fifteen children there were eight who died at the age of 1 or under whilst the eldest child lived until she was 12. In the 1861 Census the six surviving children - John, Richard, William, Benjamin, James Henry and Elizabeth Ann - were living at Towednack with their parents but in 1871 only James and Elizabeth were living at home with their widowed mother. Benjamin married Elizabeth Ann Oats in 1867 and was living with his parents-in-law in 1871 but the three eldest sons are not to be found. Although he cannot yet be found on passenger lists and bearing in mind the possibility of inaccuracies on the death certificate this William Jacka matches fairly closely with the information you have. 1. He was born in England 2. He was born in 1844 which makes him just two years younger than indicated on the death certificate 3. He was in Cornwall April 1861 but cannot be found in England after this so he therefore fits closely with the emigration information you have If William and his brothers did leave England they really could have gone anywhere including the USA, South America, South Africa and New Zealand. But one or all could have come to Australia either directly or via another destination such as one of the previously mentioned. At the moment I'm afraid I can't pin down anything closer for you but it does give you something more to think about. CT
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Post by blinky on Jan 9, 2017 19:18:18 GMT -5
You guys are fantastic thanks for the quick responses.
There was a timeout error when I attempted to post this earlier so I don’t know if it was actually posted. Apologies if I have posted this twice.
Our family have ruled out William Argall Jacka. We have two William Jacka's one who died in Liverpool NSW on 11/3/1900 and the other who died in Goulburn on 4/12/1890. The later fits with the obituary written when his son William Jacka (Woods) died on 25/6/1943. The newspaper article clearly states "the late Mr. Jacka was the son of the late William Jacka, of Bulli, arrived in Crookwell about 55 years ago (circa 1888) with his father, who was taken ill upon arrival and entered the Goulburn District Hospital, where he died a few days later.
So the Jacka family knows our William Jacka died in Goulburn hospital not Liverpool asylum.
The informant on the DC was the superintendent at Goulburn Hospital. Given this I agree the information in the DC may not be accurate. Hence the misspelling of the surname. Also William had a massive stroke so he may not have been able to speak properly when questioned by the superintendent nor may he have been thinking very clearly so therefore I have used the references to time in Aust as "approximate". So your assumptions above are within the "ball park".
My mother was very close to her grandfather (William Jacka Woods) and grew up living in Crookwell. She knew him very well and family history indicates that our William is the one who died in Goulburn hospital in 1890 not William Argal Jacka who died in Liverpool 10 years later on.
The DC states "30 years in New South Wales".
Also we have considered William Argall Jacka. He "absconded" twice from South Australia leaving Harriett. There are newspaper articles about this and the police looking for him. There is a very small window of "opportunity" for him to get from SA to Bulli to "link" up with the widow Ann Woods.
I have a newspaper article dated 16/11/1875 regarding a disturbance in a Bulli hotel involving William Jacka and Mrs Woods. William Jacka (Woods) was born on 21/10/1876. Conception would have been circa late January 1876. The newspaper article suggests that William Jacka (snr) was around and with Mrs Woods for at least two months before the possible conception date.
Family tradition states that William snr and jnr left Bulli together. William jnr did not know anything about his mother and was told from a very early age that she had died. Hence the reference in the obituary "His mother having passed away some time previously the small boy was left with strangers and at an early age commenced to earn his own livelihood".
I have Ann's DC and it states she died on 4/10/1906.
I think I have William Argall Jacka’s DC at home so I will check the age at death and advise.
Yes I just found the record of John and Margaret Jacka. Surprisingly it fits with family tradition because we were always told that William (snr) came to Australia with his two brothers one of whom was Richard.
Thanks very much for your assistance my aunt will be thrilled with your comments.
Extract from William Argall Jacka's DC:
DEATH: William Argall Jacka Died on 11 Mar 1900 at Liverpool Asylum, Liverpool, NSW, Australia. Cause of Death: Cancer of the tongue Source: Registrar of Births Deaths and Marriages NSW Death Certificate Registration No 1900/002137.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 10, 2017 0:42:00 GMT -5
Well, that would seem to indicate that I 'might' be on the right track. The other information and comments regarding the 1900 burials was all part of an attempt to weigh up each piece of information to see how it might fit with each scenario. The fact that John, Richard and William all seem to have disappeared after the 1861 Census does suggest that they may have left together. If William does indeed belong to this family then it is possible his brothers also came to Australia so we need to try and track them down. CT
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Post by blinky on Jan 10, 2017 18:14:23 GMT -5
Just an update regarding William Argall Jacka. There is a very detailed history of the Argall family on the internet.
Below is an extract from this web site. It shows the death information for the William Jacka who is buried at Liverpool and died in 1900. While it shows the deceased as William Jacka it gives the details of his parent as William and Mary which clearly indicates that this William is in fact William Argall Jacka. Mary was born Mary Argall.
The marriage information also correlates to what is known about William Argall Jacka.
It is a different William Jacka to the one our family relates to. An obituary notice gives the death of our William Jacka circa 1890 at Goulburn Hospital.
GENERAL NOTES: BIRTH: South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS: Surname: JACKA Given Names: William Argall Date: 1842-04-21 Sex: M Father: William JACKA Mother: Mary ARGALL Birth Place/Residence: Adelaide District Code: Ade Symbol: Book: 1 Page: 105 Cross Reference:
MARRIAGE Groom: JACKA Given names: William Argall Bride: SHEPHERDSON Given names: Harriet Porter Date: 1873-10-18 Groom Age: 31 Status: S Groom's Father: William JACKA Bride Age: 20 Status: S Bride's Father: George Ebenezer SHEPHERDSON Place: PM Parsonage Mount Barker District: Str Symbol: A Book/Page: 97/176 Cross Reference.
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950 about William Argall Jacka Name: William Argall Jacka Father's Name: William Jacka Spouse Name: Harriet Porter Shepherdson Spouse's Father's Name: George Ebenezer Shepherdson Marriage Date: 18 Oct 1873 Marriage Place: Mount Barker Registration Place: Strathalbyn, South Australia Page Number: 176 Volume Number: 97.
DEATH: William Argall Jacka Died on 11 Mar 1900 at Liverpool Asylum, Liverpool, NSW, Australia. Cause of Death: Cancer of the tongue Source: Registrar of Births Deaths and Marriages NSW Death Certificate Registration No 1900/002137.
Australia Death Index, 1787-1985 about William Jacka: Name:William Jacka Death Date:1900 Death Place:New South Wales Father's Name:William Mother's Name:Mary Registration Year:1900 Registration Place:Liverpool, New South Wales Registration number:2137.
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Post by blinky on Jan 10, 2017 18:18:15 GMT -5
I have also found three death notices for John Jacka all in Cornwall.
March 1865 September 1870 March 1871
If any of these is the John Jacka mentioned above then his death before the 1871 census would explain the absence of his name. Perhaps his two sons Richard and William left Cornwall after their father's death which also could explain the absence of their names in the 1871 census.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 11, 2017 0:55:28 GMT -5
Here are the burial details of John and Margaret Jacka:-
John Jacka of Baldue age 44 was buried at Ludgvan 19th March 1865 Margaret Jacka of The Union House Madron age 63 was buried at Towednack 13th July 1886
If William Jacka had been in Australia for around 30 years then his father would have been still alive when he left England. And don't forget that we are also looking for John Jacka junior who is also missing from the 1871 Census.
CT
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Post by blinky on Jan 11, 2017 5:44:03 GMT -5
Thanks for that information.
I agree he would have been still alive but as you said the DC information is not 100% reliable. Poor William Jacka was on his death bed and no relatives were with him. His 14 year old son was still coming to grips with arriving in a new town and his father dying in hospital 100 kilometres away. The DC information was provided by the hospital superintendent. William had suffered a severe stroke so he may not have been able to communicate clearly. So the 30 years could be an approximation. An 1865 arrival would make that 25 years in Australia.
The children could have still left Cornwall while the father was still alive. However an arrival date after 1865 still "puts him in the frame". He needed to be in Bulli circa January 1876 to be the father of William Jacka (jnr) DOB October 1876.
I will contact Goulburn Cemetery to see what records they have and ask what is on the grave stone.
I think you are on the right track as there is no-one else that fits the frame!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 11, 2017 6:45:55 GMT -5
Anything you can track down will be helpful but don't forget about potential brothers John and Richard. If they can be found then information about them might also help with William. CT
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Post by blinky on Jan 12, 2017 0:41:39 GMT -5
Thanks Cornish Terrier.
I am having no success finding the birth / baptism record for William 1842 and I can't find John, Richard or William on any passenger lists. I have drawn a blank. I think they may be the correct family. I am waiting for Goulburn Cemetry Administrators to get back to me so I can authenticate the burial of William Jacka. I have requested the location of the grave and any inscriptions on the head stone there may be some clues in that.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 12, 2017 4:08:11 GMT -5
I had not found baptisms for these three either but I suspect they may have been baptized in one of the non-conformist chapels for which either no records survive or no records are currently available. The eldest child of John and Margaret Jacka was daughter Elizabeth Ann who was baptized at the Carfury Bible Christian Chapel at Gulval 18th November 1840. Of the eleven children born after William (1848-1863) there were two baptized at Towednack but the rest were all baptized in Wesleyan or Primitive Methodist chapels. It is only John, Richard and William who cannot be found in baptismal records but here are the details I have found:-
John - age 1 at the 1841 Census which was taken on 7th June so must have been born April or May 1841 Richard - born at Marazion 1842 (1851 Census, FreeBMD, GRO Birth Index). Birth registered December Qtr Volume 9 Page 206 with mother's maiden name recorded as 'Tyrrell'. William - born at Marazion 1844 (1851 Census, FreeBMD, GRO Birth Index). Birth registered June Qtr Volume 9 Page 209 with mother's maiden name recorded as 'Tyrrell'.
As I said in an earlier note William's birth in 1844 does not quite match the details on his death certificate but it is a close match if allowing for discrepancies.
The other thing I forgot to mention was that I also checked the US Census and there are two William Jackas appearing in the USA who had been born about 1840 and 1842 respectively. I don't recall exactly which Census but I would nave most likely checked 1870 and 1880.
CT
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 12, 2017 4:17:19 GMT -5
I thought you were aware of the birth info. This looks like the GRO entry EDIT...geeze, I'm too slow
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Post by blinky on Jan 12, 2017 6:41:52 GMT -5
You guys are magnificent.
Thanks for the information.
Yes I noted your earlier comments that William's birth does not match the DC information but it is the closest we have been so far. As you said before DC information is not 100% reliable and in this case because it was sourced by the hospital superintendent without any family input it is approx at best. Two years difference is not bad! The others that were considered were more than 10 years out. I am waiting for the cemetery to get back to me. I asked them to verify the burial and give me any inscriptions on the grave stone. I am looking for a DOB or age to see if it matches.
I suppose until such time as we can place this William in Australia (NSW) around 1875 we don't have a match.
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