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Post by sue on Sept 5, 2016 9:00:36 GMT -5
Would appreciate some help on 2 daughters of this couple, please. James Curnow 1818 Towednack and Jane Russell 1822 St Buryan of the 10 February 1844 Gulval marriage had 9 children, 6 girls & 3 boys, all still at home 1861. I know what happened to 4 of the girls and all the boys, but have 2 “loose-end” girls: Jane Russell Curnow Mar Q 1844 last positive sighting 1861 at home in Gulval........ Wm Curnow 1845/6 married Sarah Louisa Wales in California, died 1912 Elizabeth Curnow 1847/48; 1871 possibly a servant in Sancreed age “20”; 1874 probably witness at sister Fanny's marriage..........Frances (Fanny) Curnow Dec Q 1849 married 1874 Ludgvan to James Bennetts died 1889 Selina Curnow Feb 1851 married Oliver Clutterbuck Stroud RD died 1929 Taunton RD James Russell Curnow 1853 married Lottie Crichton 1885 San Jose died 1909 San Jose Robert Curnow April 1855 married Elizabeth Pryor in California died 1932 California Grace Russell Curnow Jun Q 1858 married 1888 Cheltenham RD to Wm Parrott died 1927 Oxford Ann (Nannie) Curnow Jan 1861 married 1882 to Samuel Noble died 1936 Penzance RD James Russell Curnow became a doctor (sadly life unravelled in the 1900s  ) and a pen portrait appeared in a Santa Clara California publication in 1888. This states “ Dr. Curnow has a sister in Philadelphia, the wife of Frank Clemens; one brother, William, in Nevada City, of this State, and one brother, Robert, now attending school in San Jose; and other relatives, now living in England.”
Now, a Frank Clemens of Sancreed (deduce 4 March 1843 to Charles, blacksmith, & Grace) married a Curnow girl Dec Q 1867 Aylesbury Bucks and went on to have children in England then Philadelphia: Francis 1867-68, Francis 1869 Aylesbury- prob.1902 Pennsylvania, Thomas 1871->1940, Mary 1872-<1880, Charles 1875->1920, Grace 1875-77, John 1877->1920 & Russell 1881-1902. The family can be found 1880 Philadelphia with 4 boys at home; 1900 5 boys at home; 1910 the parents in their 60s, having had 7 children 3 still living; Francis Clemens dying of flu 1919, informant son Thomas, just as he was at Russell's 1902 death (Thomas was a doctor, the other surviving boys Charles & John became machinists like their father.) The only thing is, the bride of Frank Clemens at 1867 marriage (Freebmd) is Mary Jane Curnow; 1871 enumerated in Fulham Middx as Mary J age 25 (born Madron, okay as near Gulval border); emigrated 1873 as Mary age 30; 1880 Minnie age 32; 1900 Jane age 49, 1910 Mary age 64........ Is this the girl whose birth was registered as Jane Russell Curnow in Mar Q 1844 Penzance RD, baptized Jane Russell Curnow 12 July 1851 Gulval?   Sue |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 5, 2016 10:16:35 GMT -5
The later information seems to suggest that Frank Clemens' wife must have been Jane Russell Curnow but I am reluctant to accept it at face value given it would seem a rather late change of name.
Unfortunately FreeREG2 does not have this marriage transcribed and I cannot find it in FamilySearch but really it would be only details on the marriage record that might solve the problem.
Do we have any members living near the Bucks. Record Office who might be able to do a lookup?
CT
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Post by zibetha on Sept 5, 2016 16:10:04 GMT -5
Frank and Mary Clemens died a day apart in Philadelphia during the 1918-19 flu epidemic. Mary's date of birth was March 19, 1844 (England) and she died Jan 20, 1919 (the day after her husband.) Her parents are listed on the death certificate as John JAMES and Mary, and the informant on both certificates was Thomas J Clemens.
Z
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 6, 2016 1:32:48 GMT -5
We have a couple of issues to deal with here. First of all (no offence) is the problem of the way birthdates in the US are worked out when someone dies. A large percentage of the time they are out by a year which means we could be looking at 1843 or 1845. Then we have the problem of the informant who I would suspect might never have known his maternal grandparents.
From the 1871 Census we 'know' that Mary Jane Curnow was born in Madron yet there is no record of a birth or baptism for a Mary Jane Curnow in that Parish at that time.
There are Mary Jane's with variant Curnow surnames in other areas, such as Redruth, at the right time but I'm not quite sure about them yet.
As for the possibility of Mary Jane Curnwo and Jane Russell Curnow being the same person we have a plus and a minus from the above information. The 'plus' is that Jane Russel Curnow was born in the March Qtr of 1844 which does match the birthdate recorded. The 'minus' is that Jane Russell Curnow's parents were James and Jane and not John and Mary as recorded by Thomas J Clemens.
But certainly something more to work on .....
CT
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Post by zibetha on Sept 6, 2016 22:06:43 GMT -5
Agreed re: birthdates being "interesting." I have corrected my initial post -- father was James on the certificate, not John. It is certainly possible Thomas Clemens didn't know his grandmother's name and guessed it was Mary like his mother. I've run into that, or, he could have given the name of his own mother when asked for "mother's name?"
Z
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 7, 2016 5:28:23 GMT -5
Thanks Zib, that does make a difference. And yes, I agree about the informant's information about the mother's name having encountered the same on many occasions.
So it does seem to be becoming more likely that Mary Jane and Jane Russell might be the same person.
And looking over Sue's initial post again I noticed the above which I probably did not read properly earlier. Notice that in 1900 Mrs Clemens was once again calling herself JANE. That may not mean a lot given she was otherwise known as 'Mary Jane' but it is still a noteworthy entry.
CT
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Post by sue on Sept 7, 2016 11:04:39 GMT -5
Thankyou both – and apologies for posting a query then promptly disappearing off to London!  Anyway, back now, and as I read through your replies I was feeling Mary Jane just couldn't be daughter of James & Jane despite the 1888 article, with parents named on death certificate as John & Mary (which corresponds to James' close brother, John 1815 my GGGfather)...... Added to that there are the 7 names Francis Clemens & his wife used for their children:- Francis, Thomas, Mary, Charles, Grace, John & Russell. Several come in the traditional way from Francis' family -Francis for baby's father, Charles & Grace for baby's paternal grendparents & Mary & John perhaps for siblings of babies' father Francis, who were Charles, Jane, Mary, William & John. Yet where are the names from the mother's side?  If indeed the wife is Jane Russell Curnow, there is no use of her parents' names James & Jane, nor of her siblings' names, William, Elizabeth, Frances, Selina, Robert (yes there was a Grace) & Ann, which I find strange given that the Clemens family names are used. However, given the updated information that Mrs Clemens' father was in fact named as James on the 1919 death certificate is strong, as there aren't any other realistic James Curnow's fathering girls in the 1840s in “Madron” area – and at the February 1844 marriage of James Curnow to Jane Russell pretty close to the birth of their 1st child Jane, James Curnow was of Tredinnack (at the foot of Mulfra Hill) & Jane of Madron - I think a quoted birthplace 1871 by Mrs Clemens of Madron is reasonable for her to be in fact Jane Russell Curnow.... And 2 of her boys training as doctors I suspect will have had a lot to do with help from uncle Dr James Curnow, who had no sons of his own, neither did either of his brothers, so assisting his only fellow American sister's boys could have been logical. Why Jane Russell became known as Mary Jane will remain a mystery. Sue |
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Post by zibetha on Sept 7, 2016 22:37:15 GMT -5
Sue, What about the use of "Russell" as a first name? I think that stands out  Sorry for my mis-typed response re: the death certificate. At the time, I was thinking about errors in death certificates and of "my" John Mitchell's listing his parents as "John and Mary" which I have yet to substantiate or disprove. Zib P.S. Dashing off to London sounds good to me! |
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Post by sue on Sept 8, 2016 14:11:05 GMT -5
Yep, you'd think naming a son Russell might be a big clue - but I do like to be cautious & not make assumptions! And I think informant at these various deaths Dr. Thomas Clemens jolly well ought to have known why his brother had been named Russell, which would have enabled him to give his mother's mother's name on the 1919 death certificate for "Mary" Clemens. But I will let him off in the awful circumstances of the double deaths of his parents. For example, I have at least one other Russell Curnow from a similar time period - in his case 1889 Pennsylvania to unrelated (except back in 1660s!) Wm Curnow 1852 & Rebecca Reed, with no family reason that I know of for choosing the name Russell - so I didn't discount the possibility that Russell was "just" a coincidentally fashionable name in 1880s Pennsylvania!  With your help, I think I have exhausted all there is to be found about "Mary Jane" Curnow who married Francis Clemens, so I'm now as certain as I can be in equating her to 1st child of James Curnow & Jane Russell. In a few days, I'll do some more investigation of the other unaccounted-for sister.......  Dashing off to London probably sounds more appealing from where you're sitting than from here.... but on this occasion it was indeed enjoyable Sue Stop Press! It has just occurred to my little brain to wonder what Dr Thomas Clemens' middle initial "J" stands for - & Freebmd has it there on a plate: Thomas James Clemens born June 1871 Kensington RD  |
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Post by lefty on Nov 1, 2017 2:48:01 GMT -5
I have just found this site and was amazed to see your post looking for the daughter, Elizabeth, I am her great granddaughter. She married Richard Wright from Mousehole and had four daughters, Mary Jane, known as Minnie. Dora and Elizabeth, my Grandmother. Elizabeth was a twin, but sadly her twin sister died at four months.
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Post by sue on Nov 1, 2017 5:09:04 GMT -5
Hi and welcome! That would make sense, a daughter Mary Jane/Minnie for closest sister to Elizabeth Curnow/Wright..... 1881 "born Paul" doesn't help! 1891 born Madron is closer..... I'm not sure why I gave up on the search for a positive I.D. on a future for Elizabeth Curnow 1848, but anyway.... Have you seen the marriage certificate for Elizabeth Curnow & Richard Wright naming Elizabeth's father, perchance? On that basis, we have GGGGparents William Curnow & Elizabeth Bolitho in common, as I descend from their son John 1815 and you from their son James 1818. Sue |
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Post by lefty on Nov 6, 2017 4:15:35 GMT -5
Hello Cousin [gosh knows how many times removed!] and thank you the welcome.
I have the wedding certificate for Richard Wright [age 38} and Elizabeth Curnow [age 30].
Her father is shown as James Curnow, Miner from Ninnis, Madron.
They were married at The Wesley Rock Chapel Heamoor, Madron on 9th March 1878.
The witnesses were Grace Russell Curnow and James Curnow.
My father also was given the middle name of Russell.
William Curnow and Elizabeth Bolitho are shown in my family tree as GGGGparents.
James Curnow 1819 - 1882 and Jane Russell 1822 - 1885.
Hope this helps
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Post by sue on Nov 6, 2017 4:38:28 GMT -5
Now that's what I call evidence, those details on the marriage certificate! Perfect. I have a little something i will add to this later when I'm back from a spot of work.... Thankyou. Sue |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 6, 2017 5:06:34 GMT -5
Hello 'lefty' and Welcome from me also. Sue is the Curnow person here so I have left this discussion to her but I also have some Curnow connections 'way back' and have an interest in any family with Towednack connections. I am also attempting to create an index of marriages in the Register Offices and non-conformist Chapels in the Penzance and Redruth districts so information from any certificates is always welcome. Registers for these are not readily available so it can be very difficult at times trying to work out from FreeBMD just who married who. To help with this I wonder if you might be willing to scan the marriage certificate for Richard Wright and Elizabeth Curnow as a .jpg and send me a copy via email? (I will send you a Personal Message regarding this.) CT |
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Post by sue on Nov 6, 2017 13:36:55 GMT -5
This has helped me tie up a loose end I had: a William Curnow, parents William & Elizabeth, married a Minnie Wright, parents Richard Wright & Elizabeth Curnow 3 November 1906 in Mohawk Keewenaw Michigan. William Curnow I had identified: 12 September 1877 Halsetown to William Henry Curnow~Elizabeth Ann Berriman, with brother Thomas & wife the witnesses at the 1906 Michigan marriage. But I had not identified Minnie Wright...... until now! Minnie Wright & Wm Curnow had children Minnie, Albert & Dorothy, then post 1920 disappear to me from US census. Minnie had arrived in US 1906, William in 1900. In 1912 Minnie & the children can be seen arriving in New York from Southampton England. In 1901 Minnie had been a servant to a St Ives household - a little nearer than her parents' home in Mousehole to Wm Curnow's parents home in 1891, Sandow Lane Halsetown, St Ives, when young Willie H Curnow was employed as a garden labourer.... This is All Good! Sue |
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) and a pen portrait appeared in a Santa Clara California publication in 1888. This states “Dr. Curnow has a sister in Philadelphia, the wife of Frank Clemens; one brother, William, in Nevada City, of this State, and one brother, Robert, now attending school in San Jose; and other relatives, now living in England.”
If indeed the wife is Jane Russell Curnow, there is no use of her parents' names James & Jane, nor of her siblings' names, William, Elizabeth, Frances, Selina, Robert (yes there was a Grace) & Ann, which I find strange given that the Clemens family names are used. 
Sorry for my mis-typed response re: the death certificate. At the time, I was thinking about errors in death certificates and of "my" John Mitchell's listing his parents as "John and Mary" which I have yet to substantiate or disprove.
