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Post by steven on Jan 3, 2016 10:45:36 GMT -5
I'm looking for information on the family of William Richards and Henrietta Williams Ivey, who married 1854 at St. Ives.
I have them having two children; a son John Richards, born about 1853 and a daughter Josepha Ann Stevens Richards, born Dec 1855. I believe that both children were born at St. Hilary. William Richards disappears early and I'm assuming he died between 1855 and 1861 as he doesn't appear on the census that year. Henrietta is a widow from that point forward and dies February 8, 1897 at St. Hilary. Son John is with her in 1881 but disappears after that and I'm assuming he went abroad; but with a name as common as John Richards, finding him might be difficult. Sister Josepha Ann Stevens Richards went to Australia in 1880 and married later that year to Jacob James Grisinger (1854-1940) in New South Wales. They had three children very quickly: Henrietta Christina (1881), Jacob William (1883), Rosina (1884-1885). There is a newspaper article from 1884 in which Josepha accuses a man of raping her. The next year she's disappeared and by 1891 she is back in St. Hilary with her mother. Jacob Grisinger puts out a newspaper ad in 1885 disavowing any responsibility for Josepha after that point. He marries again and dies in 1940. I found a newspaper article from Cornwall in which Josepha (Josephine Grisinger) is arrested for bizarre behavior in 1899. I can find no death for her in Cornwall. A family tree online gives a death year of 1908, but I can't find any record. I don't know if she remarried or not.
I'm curious if anyone else has anything on this family...in particular, what happened to the father William (he might've gone overseas and died there), what happened to the son John after 1881, and when died Josepha Grisinger die and where? As always... I appreciate any and all help!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 4, 2016 0:09:44 GMT -5
Not an easy family to follow! It took me ages to find any of the family after 1861 but at least I have finally found some of them. I am not sure about your comments about William Richards dying before the 1861 Census. My first difficulty with that is that I have not yet been able to find Henrietta in that year either even though her children were with their Ivey grandparents. The second reason I have some doubts about this is that I finally found Henrietta in 1871 lodging with the Neck family at St Nicholas in Bristol, Gloucestershire. And at that time she stated she was still married! If you have managed to find Henrietta in 1861 then please let me know as I would like to see if I can follow up on any information found in the record. Unfortunately that is the limit of my success so far. No sign of Josepha after 1891 although I did notice she had an adopted child in that Census - Joseph Daniell born at Marazion about 1880. CT
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Post by steven on Jan 4, 2016 18:02:56 GMT -5
CT You are totally correct....William and Henrietta are totally missing in 1861. I'm intrigued about where they went and what happened to him. To me it looks like Henrietta is a widow in 1871. I also wonder if Joseph Daniell is an adopted son of Henrietta or of her daughter Josepha. Since Josepha left three small children behind in Australia, I'd have a hard time believing that she adopted in England. Interesting family! Thanks for the help! Steve
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 4, 2016 23:15:04 GMT -5
As all the relationships in the Census are 'supposed' to relate to the 'head of household' then Joseph Daniell 'should' be the adopted child of Henrietta. Unfortunately the instructions were often not followed so it is far from certain in this case.
It could be interesting to try and work out exactly who this Joseph Daniell was because it is possible he might have been related. But having just had a quick look at birth/baptism records as well as the 1881 Census I don't think it is going to be an easy task!
Re 1861 Census - given Henrietta cannot be found my suspicions are that she was with William but again I have already had a quick look at immigration lists with no success and there are any number of places they could have gone.
CT
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Post by sue on Jan 5, 2016 6:43:45 GMT -5
Hi I too spent a bit of time yesterday looking to identify "adopted" Joseph Daniels. I found it of interest that per 1891 he was born Marazion around the time Josepha left Cornwall for Australia, so I wondered if perhaps the real relationship was illegitimate son of Josepha....... However, I have had no success in identifying him in records, as you have also indicated, CT. Freebmd gives up no Joseph Dan* born in the Penzance RD at about the right time, although it does give a Joseph Richards Mar Q 1878. However, there are possibilities to account for him in 1881. Josepha Richards is in the index of Aus records on board the Clifton travelling from Victoria to Sydney October 1880. Is it a possibility that this young boy travelled with Josepha on her original journey from England to Aus, which migration record I have not yet found? And that this boy was the cause of her marital troubles? Ah, I now see from Trove that Josepha Richards left London 29 July 1880 on board that same ship, the Clifton, as a 3rd class passenger, and I don't see a suitable infant. However, that would not preclude Josepha from having left an illegitimate baby behind in England, to emigrate for a new life in Aus, returning "home" a few years later when things didn't work out in Aus. I see the 1884 rape case was dismissed... Just a possibility, and obviously we need to deal in facts.... Sue P.S. I don't suppose the marriage of Joseph Daniels to Edith Robinson Saturday 3rd May 1902 All Saints Church Marazion, (OPC has him a 21 year old navy man, father named as Joseph Daniels, this may or may not be the chap with Josepha 1891) that The Cornishman entry gives any details of family/those present?
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 5, 2016 16:47:45 GMT -5
P.S. I don't suppose the marriage of Joseph Daniels to Edith Robinson Saturday 3rd May 1902 All Saints Church Marazion, (OPC has him a 21 year old navy man, father named as Joseph Daniels, this may or may not be the chap with Josepha 1891) that The Cornishman entry gives any details of family/those present? Hi Sue, not sure if this helps.... (no obvious relatives of Joseph mentioned) Popular Wedding at Marazion . The Cornishman (Penzance, England), Thursday, May 08, 1902; pg. 4; Issue 1244 Joseph D of Marz and HMS Defiance. Edith eldest dau of Mr H Robinson, Coast Guard in Charge at Marz. T Tresidder was best man. Bridesmaids Miss Elsie Robinson (sister) Miss Claude Rayner and Miss Gladys Irene Radford Bottrell (both cousins) Guests Mr & Mrs Heather, Mrs Davey (St Just), Miss A Beare, Miss Bottrell, Miss Katie Willis, Mr A Jenkin, Mr James Parsons. Mr Hewett baked the cake!!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2016 22:59:21 GMT -5
Sue - I find it a little strange that Joseph Daniell cannot be found in the 1881 Census. If he were truly age 11 in 1891 then he had to have been born either 1879 or 1880 so should be locatable. However, this is not finding what happened to Josepha and I am now wondering if perhaps she might not have decided after her 'bizarre behaviour' in 1899 that perhaps England was not the place for her. The fact that there is no obvious death or marriage record for her in FreeBMD may point to her having left the country again for parts unknown.
CT
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Post by sue on Jan 6, 2016 5:09:34 GMT -5
Thanks Spike - and always important to know who baked the cake! CT, I think you are probably right on all counts. Sue
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Post by steven on Jan 6, 2016 8:55:28 GMT -5
Jacob Grisinger, husband of Josepha, married a woman named Fanny after Josepha (I can't find a last name). They had a son together named Edward James Grisinger (Ted). Oddly enough, in 1907, Jacob publishes another article disavowing any actions of this wife also. He obviously wasn't too lucky in the marriage department. I agree with CT that Josepha might've moved on after 1899. Her brother John, I'm guessing, went to the US or Australia too... or other ports unknown. His common name might keep us from finding out. Thanks for the input everyone!
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Post by steven on Jan 6, 2016 16:11:27 GMT -5
One more interesting tidbit on the family. In 1881, there is a young boy named Henry Gibbs, aged 14, living with Henrietta and her son John. This article appeared in "The Cornishman" on Dec 4, 1879: "Henrietta Richards, of Marazion, was summoned for not sending Henry Gibbs, a boy of which she had had the control, to school regularly. Defendant stated that the boy belonged to her brother, who brought him from Bristol, nine years ago, and left with her, promising to take him back after he got married, but he never sent for him and since defendant's mother had died she had had the whole support of the child. She had done her best for him but he was a very bad boy, and she would not keep him any longer, as he was no relation of hers- Fined 1s and an order made for the boy's regular attendance at school."
Then in the Nov. 29, 1888 issue of the Cornishman is this: "A Windfall to a Marazion Man" It was reported last week that an official letter had been received by a young man called Gibbs, who has been living with Mrs. Henrietta Richards, Marazion, since childhood, informing him that the sum of 3000 pounds had been left him by a relative in Bristol.
This Henry Gibbs appears to go on and have a family, but I wonder how he ended up with Henrietta's brother and then her. Life must've been very interesting back then.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 7, 2016 0:02:14 GMT -5
Even more interesting when you suddenly have 3000 quid dropped in your lap!!! If Henry Gibbs belonged to Henrietta's brother then any connection would be through the Ivey family I expect. Unfortunately that is unlikely to help in the search for John Richards. CT
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