A John Pormeare, yeoman of Zennor, appears to write a will in 1639 It is proven in 1641. The will appears to name one Marck [sic] Daniell, son-in-law as the sole beneficiary. I notice that some people seem to believe Marck Daniell is the ? Daniell marrying one Elizabeth Holla in 1641 at Zennor and I have heard it claimed that Pormeare and Holla are synonymous in Cornish (though this is not so) and that Marck Daniell is thus the father of Matthew Daniell who appears to be the first Daniel, taking out a long lease on a cottage at Rosemergy, which, in his son, John Daniel's time, had a room added for the use of John Wesley and other early Methodist preachers. John and his wife Alice Daniel appear in John Wesley's journals I think the writing of the will in 1639 is more likely to mean that Marck Daniell was a step son to John Pormeare than anything else and the man marrying Elizabeth Holla is either Marck or another Daniell but that nothing about the will tells me he is definitely the man marrying Elizabeth Holla.
I am therefore no further in my Daniel hunt and feel I am unlikely to be able to go back further than Matthew Daniell born c. 1647 with possibly two brothers called John and William born c. 1643 and c.1645. I have access to the fragmented Zennor parish register but not to the Zennor Bishop Transcripts. I understand that the latter is not complete and misses years. I am just wondering whether anyone has access to the Bishop Transcripts and has spotted a Daniell/ Dannell/Danyell/Daniel chr. in the 1640s. Or whether anyone knows anything about John Pormeare - who he was married to - or any reason Marck Daniell is named as his son-in-law.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 7, 2015 22:18:42 GMT -5
This is most interesting! I have not done much work on the Daniel family of that period so far mostly due to the lack of resources at the time but I do have odds and ends in the database. I also have done little on the Porthmear/Pormeare families for the same reasons.
As for the 1639 Will of John Pormeare - I only have a brief abstract of this one and have never seen the original or a full transcript so it is difficult to comment. However I do agree on the possibility that Mark Daniel might have been a step-son rather than the husband of a daughter of John Pormeare. The fact that no wife or other obvious family is mentioned does not help with the identification of Mark Daniel either.
But there is something else that 'might' be of some use - at least it is of use providing depending on the accuracy of the abstracted information I have! There were three witnesses to John Pormeare's Will which was Nuncupative (i.e. 'by word of mouth') and they were - Robert Michell, DAVID DANIEL, ELIZABETH DANIEL.
You asked about Zennor Bishops Transcripts - as it happens I managed to acquire copies of the Zennor BTs through the very kind and willing services of another researcher. I cannot pass these on but I can search them and provide information. You are quite right that there are many years missing and these older records also suffer from damp, fading and fragmentation but the fact we have any records at all must be considered a bonus. The Exeter BTs cover the period to 1674 and the surviving years are - 1611, 1619, 1620-1625 (undated but other records indicate coverage), 1628-1633 (as with previous), 1634, 1635 - GAP - 1663, 1664, 1665, 1666, 1667, 1670, 1673.
As you can see the period of main interest in this discussion is non-existent. However all is not totally lost and we do have at least some information that might help solve the problem. Following is what I have been able to extract from the existing BTs:-
1635 - David sonne of Bauldwin Danyell by Paskus his wife was baptized the 9th day of December 1670 - there is a Daniell marriage (possibly Matthew of William) but my copy of the BT is almost impossible to read 1673 - Henry the sonne of Keyefrene Daniell was baptized the ffirst day of March 1673 - William Daniell was married unto Paticens Oattes the 18th day of October
That is not much, and I have not worried about Pormeare at this stage, but it does tell us that a Baldwin Daniel was at Zennor in 1635. Following are a few more scraps that I have:-
1613 Church Rate for Zennor Thomas Permere - John Permere - Davy Danyell - 6d
1641 Protestation Returns Thomas Pormeare David Danyell Bauldwin Danyell Richard Pormeare Anthony Pormeare David Pormeare Marke Danyell John Pormeare
1662 Hearth Tax No Daniels and no Pormeares
As I said these are 'scraps' but they may be helpful nonetheless.
I would suggest the most useful approach from here would be to check other Wills of the time for mentions of the Daniel family. Zennor and Morvah with possibly Towednack and Gulval would be my choice of the most likely Parishes. It would also be worth checking the Cornwall Record Office Catalogue for Leases and other documents they might have - especially if they relate to known properties involving the Daniel family.
It would also be worth checking the Cornwall Record Office Catalogue for Leases and other documents they might have - especially if they relate to known properties involving the Daniel family.
I agree with CT that leases and land records are a valuable source for tracking family links specially through the use of 'lives' to determine the tenure of a lease. As a 'yeoman' it is very likely that your subject leased land in the parish. The Cornwall Record Office is the obvious place to start but don't overlook unexpected locations. I notice in the TNA's Discovery catalogue that the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre lists (Ref. 1641/30, dated to 1655) a "Detailed survey and valuation of the manors of Trethewy in Zennor, Brea in St. Just in Penwith, Eathorn and Penvounder in Sithney, and St. Ives. Records names and ages of the lives in being, description of the property, acreage and annual value".
Thank you both for the pointers and advice here. I think the 1670 marriage would be for Matthew, the father of the John Daniel of John Wesley's journal entries for Rosermergy. Matthew took out a long 99 year/ 3 life lease on the Daniel cottage at Rosemergy in 1685. Matthew's spouse should be Mary Knight or Mary Robartes (her family used both surnames). Matthew died 1717/18 and Mary 1723. If Mary was legitimate she was born after Sept 1649 so if born 1650/51 she would have been of reasonable age for a 1670 marriage The 1673 marriage of William Daniell to Paticen Oates is interesting. The Oates family feature again in the portion of the tree that I have been able to work out. The Daniell/Daniel family are fond of first cousins. The Daniell/Daniel family tend to use the names John, Matthew Mark, William and Thomas. When they have to go beyond this they seem to go for the names Andrew, Richard and Henry but David and in the earlier patch, where it might be expected, Baldwin do not feature. A lot to ponder on
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 10, 2015 15:57:24 GMT -5
I think the 1670 marriage would be for Matthew,
Yes, I do believe that would be correct. Matthew is mentioned as son-in-law in the Wills of both William and Honor Roberts and their daughter Mary is specifically mentioned as wife of Matthew Daniell as well as being an executor.
I have just received these wills. The William Daniel of Morvah 1728 should be reindexed on the Cornwall Archives catalogue in my humble opinion. It is really a copy of the 1709 will of William Daniel, proven 1710. William had two children Mark and Mary and I suspect the 1728 documents are really to do with the daughter Mary reaching majority (allowing it may have taken around a year to sort out matters). Anyway, where can I send copies so you can see these wills for yourself. I also have the 'will' of Matthew Daniel 1718. He actually died intestate and the document is really Mary, his widow, revoking her right to administer the estate, passing this task to her son, John Daniel. In addition I have a 1701 will for John Dannell. I suspect this John was Matthew's nephew. So far I have pencilled in a John Daniell and William Daniell as Matthew's siblings. These two have children chr in Morvah in 1670s-80s - I have some females in this time frame who are not chr. in Morvah (I only have rough estimate years of birth) who I believe are this brother John Daniell's children. This does match in with the will (1701)of the suspected nephew, John, who names two of his sisters, Jane and Constance (I previously had these two girls as children of the John thought to be Matthew's sibling) Constance later marries Matthew's son Matthew. Anyway re these wills my email is firstname.lastname@example.org if you want to give me details of where I can send copies. Ah before I log off - I notice an Elizabeth Daniell being chr. in the Morvah records 1665/66 (if memory of my notes is anything to go on). I know it is in the 1660s. The father is a Richard Daniell. I wonder whether there is any hint of him in the Zennor records. There does not appear to be further mention of his presence in Morvah.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 11, 2015 5:55:41 GMT -5
That would be most appreciated and it seems the timing is rather good as well! I am sending you an email so the easiest thing would be to reply to that message and simply attach the documents which I presume are in PDF format? I only have an abstract of the 1701 Will so a copy of that would be appreciated also.
Once I have had a chance to read all these documents I might be able to make more sense of the few surviving pre-1713 records for the Daniel families at Zennor. I also have the Morvah records so can cross-reference with them.
Elizabeth daughter of Richard Daniel at Morvah - I do have that record in my database but currently have no further information on Richard except that the old IGI showed the baptism of a Margaret daughter of Richard Daniel at Madron 24th January 1668. Having looked at that record again in an image of the original register I found that the surname is unreadable due to the darkness of the print. However I also have a copy of the Tremenheere Transcript which shows that the surname was actually JAMES and not Daniel.
I will see if I can turn up anything else on Richard once I start looking at the Zennor families from the Wills.
There is another question I would like to ask you. Mary Knight/Robartes, who married Matthew Daniel, appears to have a paternal aunt Jane. Jane Knight alias Robarts married the same year as Mary's parent - 1649. She became Jane Quicke. Her daughter Zenobia Quicke became Zenobia Stevens and has a daughter also called Zenobia Stevens. As Sinobia Stevens, Jane's granddaughter, marries Richard Baragwaneth at Zennor 1726. In January 1781 she is buried at Towednack. Is she the Zenobia who according to legend thought she had reached 100 and that she had therefore outlived the terms of the lease on her home so went into town to plead with the council. They supposedly gave her wine to fortify herself as she waited a decision and then when the owners agreed she could remain in her cottage for the remainder of her life she was offered another glass, but declined it and, to everyone's amazement, declared that she had ridden in on a young colt that was rather skittish so she needed a clear head to ride home, and supposedly without further ado, mounted up and galloped off. Jane's granddaughter was not quite 100 but I suspect neither was the Zenobia of legend. I believe the lady of the legend was meant to be a Stevens but is also referred to as the Baragwanath or am I wrong in that. Is Jane's granddaughter the Zenobia with the skittish colt?
If you want a copy of this one it can be downloaded as a PDF file. There is a row of buttons just above the text with one at the far right that looks like a cog. Click that button and you will see a link called 'Download PDF'. Just click on that and save the file.
The Zenobia in question was the daughter of James Quick and Jane Knight (als Roberts) who had married at Zennor in 1749. According to Bishops Transcripts Zenobia was baptized at Zennor 28th February 1668 (Old Style) and she married William Stevens at Zennor 29th November 1692. Zenobia was buried at Zennor 23rd July 1763 so she would have been only 95 when she died. Her daughter Zenobia was baptised at St Ives in 1706 and married Richard Baragwanath in 1729. She died in 1781.
If you read some of the information at the top of the page (and on the previous page) I suspect you will find other information that is probably in error. For example there is Catherine Freeman who died at Falmouth in 1793. According to Magna Britannia she was supposed to have been aged 118!
Have been reading this thread with much interest given many/most of the players mentioned are in my line.
As it happens, earlier this year I was playing around with this myself, and had roughed out various relationships that seemed important and relevant. The result was a complicated set of inter-relationships that I hesitate to post here - in part because much of it is not well supported by documentation and in part because of the difficulty in trying to display the data in text form. Suffice it to say that even by Cornish standards there is a lot of cross connections - both obvious and suspected.
Have sent you both an email containing the chart I roughed up. It may well prove to have inaccuracies, but could prove a good starting point for discussion.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 17, 2015 1:30:22 GMT -5
Gandolf - On reading the posts again I noticed that I had found a Davy Danyell involved in the 1613 Zennor Church Rate. I should point out that I have only a transcript of the names and other details from that document so cannot verify everything is correct. However, if the name is indeed 'Davy' then your interest in David Daniel of East Newlyn is understandable. I have just had a look through some of the Subsidies and Muster Rolls information produced in Matthews 'History of St Ives' and found no mention of the Daniels on the Subsides or Musters themselves. But it needs to be noted that in the records for the 16th Century Matthews states that he was looking at a 'selection of names' from each of the Parishes. So the fact that the Daniel name does not appear does not help our cause in any way. As in my email, I still maintain that we should concentrate on the area of and around Zennor before expanding our horizons to try and find Daniel ancestors. With the Parish Registers in such poor condition we need to rely on other sources of information to determine how early the Daniels might be found at Zennor.
But having said all of that I am certainly not discounting the possible East Newlyn connection and it would be helpful to try and find out as much as possible about David son of Marke Daniel baptized in 1573.