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Post by allan1962 on Feb 27, 2015 19:42:52 GMT -5
1. Thomas Casley baptised at St Just 30 Sep 1805 son of Thomas Casley & Margaret Hockin, no residence given.
2. Thomas Casley baptised at St Just 12 May 1805 son of Noah Casley & Elizabeth Bone, no residence given.
One of them was buried at St Just 22 Dec 1821 aged 16, residence Trewellard, parents not named.
The other married Margaret Gendall at Madron on 26 Jul 1828, groom's residence Morvah, groom's father's name not given, & was buried at Morvah, on 03 May 1867, residence Church Town.
Which Thomas died aged 16?
Allan.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 27, 2015 23:42:47 GMT -5
Allen - I also ran into the same problem a few years back and it is still not resolved. However, I do have a suggestion on how you 'might' be able to find the answer.
Unfortunately Noah Casley appears to have died in 1811, or at least 'a' Noah was buried at St Just in that year. So what you would need to do is to compile a list of children for both Noah and Elizabeth and for Thomas and Margaret.
The next step is to work through the Casley burials at St Just from 1813 onwards and see what Casleys were 'of Trewellard' and see if they match the children of one family or the other. That will certainly help narrow the field but you would also need to check the 1841 Census to see if Noah's widow was still alive (and where). If Thomas and/or Margaret were also still alive in 1841 then their abode might be of help although there is no guarantee that either family had not moved during the years.
While checking Casley burials also take note of other burials where there are a number from the same abode (e.g. Kelynack) and see if they might provide links to either of the two families.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 27, 2015 23:52:06 GMT -5
Allen - I presume you are trying to identify which Thomas Casley married Margaret Gendall at Madron in 1828? I think it might be more than useful to know that his first son was baptized at Morvah just a couple of months after the marriage and that child was named ........ NOAH!!  That then tells me that the Thomas who died at Trewellard in 1821 must have been the son of Thomas and Margaret. And, even though many years had passed, it is interesting to know that Margaret (nee Hockin) was also of Trewellard when she died in 1849. CT |
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Post by gandolf on Feb 27, 2015 23:59:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with CT here as to the husband of Margaret being the Thomas son of Noah.
While it was only a cursory glance, the 1841 and 1851 census is strongly suggestive of this.
Some quick spot checking of baptismal records (NOTE: will need far more detailed checking to confirm!!) suggests that the Thomas Casley who married Margaret Hockin was probably the either a brother or first cousin (I suspect the latter) of Noah Casley who married Elizabeth Bone. Possibly both descendants of a Gabriel Casley??
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Post by allan1962 on Feb 28, 2015 6:11:07 GMT -5
Thank you both for your advice. I will research some more & come back.
Allan.
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Post by allan1962 on Feb 28, 2015 9:58:32 GMT -5
I think that Thomas Casley 1805, who married Margaret Gendall 1803 in 1828, is the son of Noah Casley, who married Elizabeth Bone in 1796.
The 1861 census shows:-
Thomas Casley head 55 born St Just.
Margaret Casley wife 58 born Morvah.
Elizabeth J Casley daughter born Morvah.
William Casley son 17 born Morvah.
Susan Casley daughter 12 born Morvah.
AND
Elizabeth Trembath SISTER widow 66 born St Just.
Thomas had a sister, Elizabeth Bone Casley baptised 30 Oct 1797, who married Thomas Trembath in 1822.
The 1841 census shows:-
Thomas Trembath 45
Elizabeth Trembath 40
Elizabeth Trembath 15
Thomas Trembath 15
John Trembath 12
William Trembath 8
Richard Trembath 5
Living at Trevarran (?), Morvah.
Can’t find Thomas Trembath in the 1851 census but a possible burial aged 37 on 19 Mar 1844 (1807) residence Church Town, St. Just.
1851 census:-
Elizabeth Trembath, widow, 57 (1794), with sons John 23 (1828), William 22 (1829), Thomas 19 (1832), all born St. Just, living at Bojewyan Stennack, St. Just. Don’t think these children have father Thomas Trembath.
All a bit untidy still!
Allan.
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Post by gandolf on Feb 28, 2015 20:13:40 GMT -5
I tend to agree with you Allan, there is no good match for Elizabeth Trembath on the 1851 census for England. For that matter there is no good matches for her younger children (Richard & William) either.
Allowing for the rounding used on the 1841 census, the ages suggest Thomas as being born in the early to mid 1790's and Elizabeth in the mid to late 1790s.
The 1861 census makes Elizabeth born around 1794-1795, consistent with the 1841 census, which with the 1841 census would indicate that her husband Thomas was probably born in the early 1790s. However it then gets interesting, as it seems there was not a single Thomas Trembath baptised anywhere in Cornwall in the twenty years prior to 1796 and then you have six born between 1796-1807 (five surviving infancy), all born at St. Just or Morvah.
This could be the Thomas Trembath baptised 1807 at St. Just. In any event I am not entirely comfortable with the discrepancies in the age for Thomas. While it is not unheard of for Cornish women to have a husband up to a decade younger, it was not common and in any event the 1841 census (assuming ages were accurate) implies that wasn't the case. The only way to perhaps be sure would be to get the death certificate and hope that the informant or address would be able to be matched to the family.
Given the difficulty identifying the family on the 1851 census, and bearing in mind world events (e.g. copper mining in South Australia, gold rushes in NSW and Victoria), perhaps the family emigrated during the 1840's? With Thomas Trembath then dying somewhere outside England and Elizabeth later returning to England? Something to consider?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 28, 2015 22:04:00 GMT -5
Not quite correct ..... Thomas son of Thomas and Gracey TREMBETH baptized 20th January 1782 St Wenn A long way off but definitely in Cornwall and shows that you need to be mindful of the variations in spelling that make genealogical life so interesting.  CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 28, 2015 22:38:58 GMT -5
I think you might find that these will be the widow and children of Maddern Trembath who was buried at Morvah in 1840
Thomas and Elizabeth are not in Wales so you may need to look farther afield.
CT
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Post by gandolf on Mar 2, 2015 6:53:40 GMT -5
Interesting, even using variants, I didn't seem to find this Thomas. Regardless he can be discounted as the husband of Elizabeth Casley as although he was married to an Eliabeth, it would seem to be a different wife (and different kids anyway) and the family was still at St. Wenn on the 1841 census.
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Post by gandolf on Mar 2, 2015 15:01:13 GMT -5
It appears I "may" have been correct with the guess that the Trembath family was out of Cornwall (and England) at the time of the 1851 census.
Not only can I not find the parents on the 1851 census, I cannot locate any record that fits with any of the children that cannot be discounted as being one of the other Trembaths from St. Just (e.g. children of a William Trembath).
However while poking in odd corners, I came across the research of a descendant which suggested at least three of their children emigrated to Australia. And in turn it seems that this was discussed in an earlier thread a couple of years ago ("casley-trembath-cundy").
It seems three children (Elizabeth, Richard & William) all married in NSW between 1850 and 1865, with the earliest being Eliza (Elizabth?) marrying in 1850 to William Betts. However, can't find anything more on this couple after that date.
Now while three siblings could have emigrated individually from Cornwall to NSW, it is more likely that they moved out as a family with their parents. So assuming the 1850 marriage is indeed daughter Elizabeth, this would explain the difficulty locating the family on the 1851 census.
While I cannot yet locate a death for father Thomas, perhaps he and wife Elizabeth decided to return to Cornwall and Thomas died along the way and was buried at sea and registered elsewhere (e.g. South Africa)?
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