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Post by zibetha on Dec 13, 2014 19:19:24 GMT -5
An interesting addition, Spike!
After the 1757 baptism of Catherine, I see daughters named Jane born to Edward Winnan and Jane in 1760 and 1761. There is a marriage between Edward Winnan and Jane CLYSE January 13 1760 after the burial of Margaret Winnan in 1757. I think this was Edward's second marriage, followed by two daughters named Jane.
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Post by spikeharwood on Dec 13, 2014 19:34:30 GMT -5
Not sure if these are the same people. I will need to check out my notes. Right now I'm off to visit the aged parent at the twilight home for the aged and bewildered. Past v present. Hmmm.
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Post by spikeharwood on Dec 29, 2014 6:15:44 GMT -5
Hi Zib, In a post of yours dated Aug 25, 2014 in this thread you refer to Elizabeth Nicholas as one of your Ford descendants. Do you have any info on her siblings? I have been trying to sort them out and have come up with the following. Don't go to any trouble, if you just could check with what you already have. Anyone else is invited to join in if they have anything.
Father John NICHOLAS-8
Birth "Jan 1817" St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Baptism 21 Mar 1817 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG
Occupation mason Death 11 Jun 1897 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Marriage 3 Sep 1837 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Father John NICHOLAS-11 (1789-1852)
Mother Martha HODGE-18 (1794-1861)
Mother Margaret COCK-9
Birth "Jan 1816" St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 17 Mar 1816 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Burial 21 Dec 1868 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK Father Richard COCK-12 (1779- )
Mother Mary PIERCE-13 (1783- )
Children M John NICHOLAS-2662
Baptism 5 Nov 1837 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG Burial 18 Nov 1899 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Spouse Margaret PEARCE-2973 (1841-1920)
Marriage 20 May 1861 Uny Lelant, Cornwall, ENG
F Juliana NICHOLAS-2663
Birth 30 Sep 1839 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 3 Nov 1839 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Burial 30 Jun 1920 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK M Richard Cock NICHOLAS-15
Birth 25 Mar 1842 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 16 Apr 1843 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Death 8 Mar 1875 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Burial 10 Mar 1875 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK Spouse Susan Ann BADGE-87 (1841-1911)
Marriage 24 Aug 1861 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
F Elizabeth Ann NICHOLAS-7
Birth 25 Feb 1844 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 20 Oct 1844 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Immigration-family 29 Nov 1865 John WHINNEN-6; Adelaide, SA, AUS on the Lady Milton Death 9 May 1923 Gawler, SA, AUS
Burial 10 May 1923 Willaston Cemetery, Willaston, SA, AUS Spouse John WHINNEN-6 (1842-1913)
Marriage 1 Nov 1862 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
M James NICHOLAS-2664
Birth 13 Apr 1847 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 23 May 1847 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Death Jun 1918 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Burial 20 Jun 1918 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
F Mary NICHOLAS-2665
Birth 13 Sep 1849 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 25 Dec 1849 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK Death 27 Apr 1927 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG
Spouse John TREGENZA-2975 (1853-1927)
Marriage 1 Nov 1873 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG
F Margaret Jane NICHOLAS-2672
Birth 8 Nov 1851 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 18 Jan 1852 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Death 30 Jan 1937 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG
M William NICHOLAS-14
Birth 12 Feb 1854 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 23 Jul 1854 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK Burial 11 Jul 1921 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
F Annie NICHOLAS-2673
Birth 9 Feb 1856 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Chr 6 Jul 1856 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
Death 7 May 1857 St Erth, Cornwall, ENG, UK
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Post by zibetha on Dec 30, 2014 0:26:45 GMT -5
Hi, Spike,
That pretty much matches what I have worked out so far. I didn't have Mary NICHOLAS' marriage to John Tregenza yet, so thanks for that information.
I found a couple of other marriages at St Erth:
James NICHOLAS (1847) bachelor, carpenter, full age, son of John(mason) married Ann REYNOLDS, daughter of Walter (farmer) 14 Apr 1870
William NICHOLAS (1854) bachelor, mason, age 21, son of John (mason) married Eliza FIRSTBROOK, age 24, daughter of Benjamin (husbandman) 13 Feb 1875. His sister, Margaret Jane NICHOLAS, was one of the witnesses.
Zib
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Post by spikeharwood on Dec 30, 2014 3:57:53 GMT -5
Thanks Zib, And I found the Reynolds and Firstbrook marriages myself today so that all comes together nicely. I have quite a few Firstbrooks dangling from my various trees, including John who married Amelia Nicholas dau of Richard N and Ann Hodge. I will need to work through all the connections. Could get interesting.
Cheers and Happy New Year
Spike
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 5, 2016 5:06:31 GMT -5
I guess I'm going to have to accept an Unknown as the father for Peninnah Blee. I had assumed that because James Williams was indicated as such on the wedding certificate that he was our man. "Father" most likely included step father (and even grandfather) and she would have named James unless she knew and accepted who the actual father was. There is also the point that when Peninnah was born, James was a married man with a young family. So it's disappointing that one of the lines appears to end for now. Peninnah's father is one of my 4xggrandparents. Still I have 30 of my 32 3xg's, so I shouldn't complain. I had Elizabeth Whinnen attached to a James Williams in my data base but I hadn't traced him further. So thanks for the link to James Sr. Spike Back in September 2014 we left poor Peninnah Blee dangling with father unknown. The most likely suspect was James Williams who later married Ann Blee who was Peninnah's mother. He was married with a young family at the time of Peninnah's birth. This was the main reason that he was ruled out. I'd like to have another look at him if we might. I was looking at the children of Peninnah and Richard Whinnen. They were: Richard Whinnen 25 Jan 1840 John Whinnen 22 Jul 1842 Edward Blee Whinnen 9 Jan 1845 Samuel Whinnen 13 Jan 1847 Joseph Williams Whinnen 20 Jan 1849 Annie Blee Whinnen 3 Mar 1852 Elizabeth Annie Whinnen 17 Nov 1858 Thomas James Whinnen 20 Jan 1862 It's the use of the middle names that attracted my attention. Annie Blee was Peninnah's mother's name. Both of those names are given as middle names to three children. James and Williams are given as middle names to two of the boys. Joseph's middle name on his baptism and marriage is Williams not William. The above dates are dates of birth not baptism. James Williams died in 1851. His names were used for the first boys baptised after his death. Joseph was not baptised until 1856. Perhaps all was revealed before he died? James and Ann had sons named Edward Blee, Joseph and Thomas. So, CT. What do you think. Does this make it more likely that James is the father after all? Spike
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2016 22:47:52 GMT -5
Weeeeellll No, I would have to say that this is not convincing enough as identification of Peninah's father. What you need to do is to look at the broader picture and resist being focussed on James Williams. James Williams (or at least 'a' James Williams) may well have been the father of Peninah but that (i.e. James Williams) is NOT the name used by Peninah for her son! She named him JOSEPH Williams. Now you need to remember that Ann Blee married a James Williams and therefore her children by him were all Williams children. Amongst those children was a son named JOSEPH WILLIAMS and it may well be he after whom Peninah named her son! I would suggest you try to follow up on Joseph Williams and see if you can find out what happened to him. Perhaps he died young or at a youngish age or perhaps he upped sticks and left England or perhaps he was simply Peninah's favourite half-brother but he certainly is more likely to have been the man for whom Peninah named her son. As for Peninah's last son Thomas James Whinnen - you need to remember also that JAMES was a common surname in the area! It may even be that this is yet another clue to the identity of Peninah's father! CT
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 6, 2016 15:51:42 GMT -5
Thank you CT. I thought you might be underwhelmed by my latest attempt to own James as a way of filling my ancestral gap. I have a Plan B. I've recently had a DNA test through Ancestry and I'm going to wait patiently until a descendant of the missing one turns up. I'm in the "administered by sonjecad" group...if you're reading this Spike PS Would it be worthwhile having a DNA section where forum members could make it known that they have had the test, where their DNA is hosted, their username, their ethnicity mix and any other useful info?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 6, 2016 23:50:31 GMT -5
Not so! I am merely trying to help you see all possibilities in an effort to help you find the 'correct' answer. RE DNA - I understand your point here but think that we would be stepping right into the mire regarding Privacy so I think that one is better left alone on this type of forum. Surely the DNA hosing site (e.g. Ancestry.com) would have some sort of provision for allowing access to indexes of that type of information. CT
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Post by spikeharwood on Jan 8, 2016 4:14:19 GMT -5
............ Was Ann Blee, not Peninah the actual mother and wife?We find a marriage record for James on the OPC for 20 Feb 1819 at Lelant. Wife was Amy Blee. FamSearch comes to the rescue and names the wife as Ann. There is a Peninah born to Ann Blee, no father named, and bpt 26 Jan 1817. This is most likely our girl. And just for completeness it would be nice to put the pesky Peninah Blee out of the picture. Well a burial on 26 Sep 1797 of "Jenninah" aged 11 should just about do the trick. So, in my battle against the mob have I overlooked anything and is there any reason why I shouldn't ignore the noise and go with Ann Blee as the likely wife and mother? It is good to see that a year later Ancestry now have England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 as a source verifying that Ann Blee is indeed the mother of Peninnah Blee baptised 26 January 1817 at Breage.
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Post by spikeharwood on Jul 18, 2016 17:57:11 GMT -5
I was looking at the children of Peninnah and Richard Whinnen. They were: Richard Whinnen 25 Jan 1840 John Whinnen 22 Jul 1842Edward Blee Whinnen 9 Jan 1845 Samuel Whinnen 13 Jan 1847Joseph Williams Whinnen 20 Jan 1849 Annie Blee Whinnen 3 Mar 1852 Elizabeth Annie Whinnen 17 Nov 1858 Thomas James Whinnen 20 Jan 1862 Had a Shared Ancestor Match last night on AncestryDNA. Myself and a fourth cousin have Richard Whinnen as a DNA confirmed 3rd great grandfather. My line is down through his son John and the cousin is through Samuel, both of whom arrived in South Australia on the Lady Milton in 1865. Already had the paper trail down to cousin's grandmother. Nice to have the research validated by the DNA.
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Post by spikeharwood on Oct 18, 2016 3:29:52 GMT -5
CT, Here’s what I’ve got for starters: OPC: Underage “Nanny” Stevens, daughter of James, married Matthew Berryman of age, resident St Erth, son of John, on Feb 12 1852 13, 1853 at St. Erth. AT 1861 Census, she was married (husband not present) and living with her daughters c/o her parents and working at the mine. From Marriage 1: Daughter Jane BERRYMAN, (OPC) born Mar 20 1853 at St Erth baptized Mar 25 1854, death Sep 8 1937 in Phoenix, Arizona USA. Found in Missouri on one Census possibly due to husband’s job with railroad? Jane married James Henry CHYNOWETH and had children (birth dates est. from census): Emma Jane 1870, John H 1872, Gertrude M 1879, Oscar James 1881 and Kathryn aka Katie 1885 Daughter Mary Ann BERRYMAN born (OPC) Aug 28 1854 baptized Nov 5 1854 St Erth death Nov 9 1923 Butte, Montana Married James RICHARDS (1845-1894) Feb 2, 1874 in Pioche, Lincoln, Nevada per County Marriage book as indexed on Ancestry.com Children: Bessie 1875, Philip Henry 1877, Edward E 1879, James 1881, Annie 1887, Emma 1891, Henry 1893 From Marriage No. 2 sometime between 1854 and 1866 (Cornwall or Michigan?) to Edward Blee Whinnen 2 sons born in Michigan: EDWARD BLEE WHINNEN born 1866 in died in Phoenix, Arizona 1926 per headstone on Find-a-Grave (Memorial gives father as EBW and mother as Ann Stevens transcribed from death certificate.) At Pioche Nebraska 1880, Fools Gulch, Arizona Territory 1900, Black Rock Mining District, Arizona 1910. 1910 census has him working as a “hired man” in Phoenix. No known marriage or children. RICHARD WHINNEN born 1871 Michigan found age 5 in Lincoln County, Nevada age 5 as R Whinnen c/o E Whinnen and then with family on 1880 census in Pioche, Lincoln county, Nevada. No further info on him as yet. Cousin Zib, I'm a bit puzzled as to where William J Stevens fits into all of this. In the 1861 census, Nanny and her two daughters are living with her parents. There are two young boys including William who is one year old. They are both described as Son (whereas the girls are clearly described as granddaughter). Fast forward to the Arizona census of 1882 where Edward and Ann are living with their sons Edward and Richard plus WJ Whinnen born England. He is also Whinnen in 1870 in Michigan. WJ does get married as Stevens. Edward is only 14 years older than WJ so is the least likely to be the father. Ann may have had a between marriages fling and we have an unknown father. Maybe the parents are as shown in 1861, but it's hard to imagine that a mother (albeit a widow by then would give up such a young child). Most of the Ancestry trees seem to suggest that Matthew might be the father...which might rule him out! Just curious because WJ's great great grandson has contacted me. Thoughts ...anyone?
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Post by zibetha on Oct 18, 2016 4:16:20 GMT -5
Hi, Spike,
Per my notes, I thought William James Stevens was Ann/Nanny's brother. He was too old to have been Edward Whinnen's son.
Z
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Post by zibetha on Oct 18, 2016 4:19:14 GMT -5
RE: 1861 census-- the last child? Father died in 1867-- I don't know about his mother. I have often found siblings "sticking together." I think Ann/Nanny "stepped up to the plate" (inserting a little baseball slang ) and took her younger brothers with her to the United States. William married Nellie Kinsman, and they moved to California. As the Arizona Census indicates his place of birth as England, that along with his age makes it very unlikely that he was Edward Whinnen's son. Brother Robert lived with Ann's daughter, Jane Berryman Chynoweth in Negaunee, Michigan. I drove through there on my way to my nephew's wedding this summer . Robert also wound up in Amador County, California, where he worked as a musician. I do not find a marriage for him. I did not mean to rewrite this -- accidently deleted everything while attempting to correct a punctuation mistake. Thus have updated a little while I'm at it. I have not found Ann's second marriage, which I think would be helpful information. Z
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Post by spikeharwood on Nov 26, 2016 22:18:19 GMT -5
Returning to Richard Whinnen and his wife Peninnah, whom we left back in January. Just recapping: Peninnah's mother was Ann Blee who married widower James Williams in 1819. Peninnah was bpt 26 Jan 1817. There was no indication as to who the father might have been. It probably wasn't James as he was married at the time. Now Richard and Peninnah had eight children from 1840 on. This was after the time that civil registration commenced. There is provision on the child's birth certificate to show the mother's maiden name. With the General Records Office now showing mother's maiden name as a field for searching their birth records it is interesting as to what is recorded for each of the children. Six of the children, excluding the 3rd and 7th have their mother's maiden name shown as Williams on their birth certificates. The 7th child shows Blee. But the third child, Edward Blee Whinnen seems to have his mother's maiden name as TREGONNING. So that might suggest that an unknown Tregonning may have been Peninnah's father.
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