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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 12, 2014 21:17:30 GMT -5
i am trying to find descendants of Ellen Vivian she was the dauther of William and Anglenia Thomas, there would have to be other siblings, William Thomas and my greatgrandfather were brothers, William died in January 1921 at Tree Zennor, as informatment of his death certificate its states W G thomas as nephew
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2014 4:31:55 GMT -5
Welcome to Penwith Genealogy bbom1960. At first glance I thought this might be an easy query to answer but now I am not quite so sure as there is something that does not seem quite right. On the surface everything appears to relate back to the Thomas family of Zennor and I was preparing to move the conversation to the Zennor Forum. However I now think that I need to do a little work with you to establish exactly which we family we are dealing with after which I will then move the thread to the appropriate place. There are two comments from you that I need to focus on:- 1. Ellen Vivian she was the dauther of William and Anglenia Thomas2. William died in January 1921 at Tree Zennor, as informatment of his death certificate its states W G thomas as nephewI have had this family in my database for quite some time so I have something to work with although I do now need to question some of my conclusions about William Thomas. William and Angelina were married at Madron in 1864 at which time William was recorded as a 'shoemaker' residing at Germoe. The first child was born at Penzance and then baptised at Germoe where the following 10 children were also baptised. The family later moved to Marazion. Angelina Thomas was buried at Marazion in 1907 and in 1911 William was still living at Marazion along with three of his children. Question: - given the above WHY WOULD WILLIAM THOMAS BE BURIED AT ZENNOR?? A William Thomas of Marazion age 92 was buried at Marazion 7th September 1927 and I suspect this is the father of Ellen Zenobia Vivian.This would then mean that you have the wrong death certificate. BUT before we start jumping to too many conclusions I think there are a few things that need to be done and that includes a few hours work by myself to ensure that I have all my information up to date. There are two other things that will help:- 1. Would you be able to send me a copy of the Death Certificate for William Thomas please? If so then let me know and I will give you my email address. 2. I need to know all you can tell me about your Great-grandfather - his name, date of birth/baptism, marriage details and perhaps the names and baptism dates for his children. That should give me enough to work with so that I can ensure all the links are correct. I will start some work on this now so the sooner you can get some information to me the better. I am sure we will be able to sort out this little problem and then you will have the answers you are looking for. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2014 9:23:48 GMT -5
Okay - I can now confirm that the death certificate you have quoted as being that of William Thomas who married Angelina Hutchens is for a different person. As mentioned in my previous post William and Angelina Thomas were at Germoe from the baptism of their first child in 1864 until sometime after 1891 and by 1901 they were living at Marazion. Angelina Thomas died after an operation for a strangulated hernia and was buried at Marazion 15th Jun 1907. Complicating matters for you is that there were a number of William Thomases baptised at Zennor between 1836 and 1839, including William above, and most of them lived beyond 1911! You stated that your William died at Treen, Zennor, in 1921 but that is in fact not correct as your William was still living at Marazion in 1911 along with three of his children. But, as mentioned above, there were a number of William Thomases baptised at Zennor from 1836-1839 and TWO of them were living at TREEN in 1911!!! Even more complicating is the fact that BOTH of the William Thomases at TREEN died within a month of each other! The three burials concerned are:- 1. William Thomas of Marazion age 92 buried 7th September 1927 at Marazion (this is the man who married Angelina Hutchens) 2. William Thomas of Treen age 84 buried 26th December 1920 at Zennor 3. William Thomas of Treen age 84 buried 18th January 1921 at Zennor I now have to identify 'nephew W G Thomas' which will then enable me to identify which of the two Zennor burials is which. I still need some information about your great-grandfather so that I can help you answer your other questions about this family. CT
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 13, 2014 15:29:25 GMT -5
Hi CT i will get back to you later in the day as I am off to work now, as there is so many thomas in and around the Zennor area it is hard to get which one, I had trouble long time ago getting the right one, as my lot came to Zennor when all the othere where there. one of the reason that I thought I had the right William Thomas is that his mother and father and brothers are buried in the Churchyard at Zennor, Thomas Thomas, his wife Zenobia nee Berryman, sons John and John, seeing that I have the wrong DC the nephew would not need to be found out. I live in Queensalnd Australia thank you for getting this information so far Tom Jones/bbom1960
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 14, 2014 2:52:10 GMT -5
Hi Ct here is the following information that I have Thomas Thomas was born in 1759 to unknown parents and unknown place of birth he married on the 20 April 1775 at Lidgvan Cornwall to Elizabeth Quick and had the following children Thomas born 18th June 1775 Nicholas born 28 December 1776 William born 1779 died 1841 Richard born 1781 James born 1784 Anne Born 1786
William Thomas the son of Thomas and Elizabeth married on the 18 January 1801 at Zennor to Catherine Stevens, the daughter of Andrew Stevens and Jane Michel they had the following children Catherine born 29 november 1801 in Towdnack and died 1861 Christina born 31 January 1813 Samuel Phillips Thomas born 23 October 1813 in Zennor Thomas born 15 October 1815 at Zennor and died 4 July 1905 at Zennor Elizabeth Thomas born 1816 Mary Thomas born 16 August 1818 in Zennor she married a Thomas Thomas and they came to South Australia at a place called Moota
Thomas Thomas the son of William and Catherine married Zenobia Berryman, she was the daughter of William and Jane nee Eddy on the 17 October 1835 in Zennor, Zenobia was born 15 May 1814 Thomas and Zenobia had the following children William born 7 February 1863 in Zennor, this is the one that was married to Angelina Hutchens John bonr 1837 in Zennor and died Janu 1841 in Zennor Thomas born 1838 died 1841 in Zennor Mary born 17 May 1840 in Zennor Catherine born 1842 in Zennor Thomas born 1844 in Zennor Matthew born 1847 in Zennor John born 1849 in Zennor richard born 1851 in Zennor Louisa Ann born 1854 in Zennor
Thomas Thomas the son of Thomas and Zenobia married Sarah Jane Lodge in Stawell Victoria in Australia, this is my great grandfather they had the following children Frederick John born 22 March 1822 in Gympie, my grandmother Alice Catherine born 15 January 1889 in Gympie died 20December 1947 in Gympie Richard James born 1890 Gympie died 25 December 1913 at Anderson Farm Woolooga Susan Zenobia born 28 May 1893 Gympie died in Gympie Thomas Matthew born 30 April 1897 in Gympie and died 14 June 1943 Gympie
also I found out the on the 20 June 1907 in the Cornishman the funeral notice of Angelina Thomas
hope this helps and wait reply Tom/bbom1960
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2014 4:19:32 GMT -5
Thanks Tom - it is actually something to do with Queensland that got me curious and suspicious about that death certificate in the first place.
The reason is that William Thomas DID actually have a nephew named William George Thomas! But the problem is that William George Thomas was born in Queensland in 1886 and it seems he stayed there until his death in 1955. It is possible of course that William visited Cornwall but his father married in Victoria in 1881 before moving to Queensland. William George Thomas appears to have married but there are births registered in Queensland to William George Thomas and four different mothers. Two marriages occurred in Queensland - Alma McTaggart in 1906 and Kathleen Mary Farmer in 1909 - but then two others possibly in other States or possibly overseas - Jane Simons Vivian (child born 1906) and Blanche Marion Potter (child born 1913).
After a little searching I have discovered that a William George Thomas married Blanche Marion Potter at Hastings, Sussex in 1897 so he can be eliminated. I have tried searching for the marriage to Jane Simons Vivian which I suspect may have occurred in New South Wales. It certainly was not in England and not in Victoria or South Australia but I have not been able to log in to the NSW BDM site to check there.
William George Thomas was a son of Thomas Thomas and Sarah Lodge who married in Victoria in 1881. Thomas was baptised at Zennor 17th December 1843 to Thomas Thomas and Zenobia Berryman.
I will work more on the two Williams of Treen and see if I can find just who that nephew was so that their families can be sorted out.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2014 4:40:41 GMT -5
I took a break to watch the news halfway through creating my last message so in effect our posts crossed as I received yours after completing my own.
I need to read through your post properly but I already see a few things that will require comment. First of all I have not yet determined parents for Catherine Stevens who married William Thomas at Zennor in 1801 and I would need to do a lot more work on Zennor families before I could be satisfied on her identity. There is also a problem with the list of children you show for William and Catherine especially as you have a gap between Catherine in 1801 and Christiana in 1813. The difficulty here is twofold - 1. the names Catherine and Christian(a) are interchangeable and 2. there was another William Thomas with wife Catherine/Christian having children at Zennor at the same time. William Thomas (I believe bp. 1768 Morvah to George and Elizabeth) married Catherine PHILLIPS at Zennor 9th May 1790 and I think you will find they were the parents of Samuel Phillips Thomas.
I also notice some differences in the children of Thomas Thomas and Sarah Lodge. For example you are missing daughter Louisa Jane who was born in Queensland in 1884 and died in 1964. She appears to have married Thomas William Jones in 1909. You are also missing William George who was born in Queensland in 1886 and died in 1955. (I posted some information about his possible marriage in my last.) The birth of 'Frederick John' was recorded in Victoria in 1882 as 'John Frederick Thomas' and finally I did not have Thomas Matthew. But I have checked the Queensland indexes again and see that his mother was recorded as SUSAN Jane Lodge.
I will continue working on this tonight for a while but I suspect it may take at least a few days to find the answer about that death certificate.
Hmmm - I understand you do have that certificate so if you can send a copy it would be very helpful. Meantime can you tell me whether there is any information about whether William Thomas was married or not?
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2014 5:01:15 GMT -5
Tom, this is not quite correct. There was only ONE son named John and he was the one you show as born 1849. First son Thomas was baptised at Zennor 14th January 1838 and he was buried at Zennor 3rd January 1841 age 3. You should find all the baptisms for these children (except for Thomas in 1838) in the Cornwall OPC (Online Parish Clerks) database. In case you do not know this site the link is:- www.cornwall-opc.org/CT
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 14, 2014 5:06:34 GMT -5
William George Thomas married Alma Mactaggart in Gympie and Louisa Jane Thomas who married Thomas William Jones was my grandparents
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 14, 2014 5:08:34 GMT -5
on the headstone at cemetery there is two John on the stone and other family members state that there was two one died few years old and the other died around 21
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 14, 2014 5:12:55 GMT -5
that certificate is that the one on William Thomas of Treen this only arrive a few days ago
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2014 8:26:04 GMT -5
I have not seen the headstone but I have found no evidence in the Parish Registers so far that there was a second John. Certainly not one buried in 1841.
Okay, a copy if possible please but at least a transcript of all the details on that certificate will be helpful and might offer another clue to determine exactly which William Thomas this is.
I have started working through the parish register again but before I continue I have some other things to tidy up.
CT
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 14, 2014 16:19:12 GMT -5
please give me your email address and can email this death certificate to you tj
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2014 2:07:07 GMT -5
I will send you the details in an email.
CT
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Post by bbom1960 on Apr 28, 2014 3:32:15 GMT -5
Hi CT just cheking to find out if you have found out any other information
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