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Post by lipkatatar on Jan 28, 2017 12:31:05 GMT -5
Hi Pollyq!
I believe I have previously downloaded the two Lanyon-Jakrobin documents you are referring to. I will try to dig out the transcriptions and post them to the board.
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Post by lipkatatar on Jan 28, 2017 18:42:38 GMT -5
C1 documents from C1/1 to C1/513 can be viewed on the AALT website. As a document can have several images the image numbers on the AALT site are normally higher than the document numbers given in the National Archive indices. C1/147/27 (image 47) aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no147/IMG_0047.htm"To the most reverend father in God the Archbishop of Canterbury and Chancellor of England. Meekly beseecheth your good and gracious lordship your poor oratour John Lanyen that where as one Thomas Lanyen father of your said oratour whose heir he is was seased of a messuage ?? acres of land with the appurtenances in Lostwythyell in his demense as of fee and so seased thereof enfeoffed one James Jakrobin with others now deceased by reason whereof the said James with his other co-feoffees were seased of the premises in their demense as of fee to the use and behalf of the said Thomas Lanyen and his heirs and after that the said James survived all his co-feoffees by reason whereof he is sole seased of the premises in his demense as of fee to the use abovesaid and afterwards the said Thomas Lanyen the father died after whose decease your said oratour as son and heir to the said Thomas hath many times come to the said James to re-feoffe your said oratour of land in the premises and that to do at all times he denied which is to the disinheritance of your said oratour for ?? let your good and gracious lordship be favourable to him in this behalf that it may please your lordship the premises carefully considered to grant a writ subpoena directed to the said James commanding him by the same to appear before the King in his chambers ?? the premises as right and good conscience shall require and this at the ?? of God and in the way of charity" As the Chancellor is addressed as Archbishop of Canterbury but not as Cardinal this document dates between 1487-1493 or between 1501-1515. Other documents relating to this dispute would suggest the dispute can be dated to around 1500 /1501. This John Lanyon, son of Thomas, could not be the John Lanyon who married Isabell Ruthfrey and died around 1502 with an adult son Richard. The John in dispute with James Jackrobin would appear to have recently come of age as his father Thomas had felt the need to appoint trustees to manage his lands for the benefit of his heirs. John Morton, Chancellor (1487-1500) and Archbishop of Canterbury was made a Cardinal in 1493. Henry Deane, Chancellor (1501-1502) and Archbishop of Canterbury. William Warham, Chancellor (1503-1515) and Archbishop of Canterbury. C1/211/53 (image 93) "To the most reverend father in God my Lord Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury and Chancellor of England. Meekly beseecheth your good and gracious lordship your continual oratour John Lanyen that where as your said oratour is seased of divers lands and tents with the appurtenances in Trevyscan within the county of Cornwall in his demense as of fee that where divers evidence charters and muniments have come to the hands and possession of one James Jakrobin within the county of Cornwall husbandman and how be it gracious lord that your said oratour hath often times required the said James Jakrobin to deliver him the said evidence charters and muniments according to right and good conscience. Yet that to do the said James Jackrobin at all times hath refused and yey doth contrary to right and good conscience. And for as much as your said oratour can not declare the number and the contents of the said evidence charters and muniments nor wherein they be contained your said oratour is without remedy by the courts of the common law unto the disinheritance of your said oratour for evermore. Unlessthat your good lordship be to him favourably showed in this behalf. Please it therefore your good and gracious lordship the premises considered to grant a writ of subpoena to be directed unto the said James Jakrobin commanding him by the same to appear before the King in his chambers at a certain date under a certain pain by your lordship to be ?? there to answer to the premises, this in the presence of almighty god and in the way of charity." This document dates between 1493-1500. C1/147/26 (image 45) aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/ChP/C1no147/IMG_0045.htmThis document is of very poor quality on the left side. I could not clearly make out the name of John Lanyon. "To the right reverend father in God the Archbishop of... 1 .......your continual oratour .... .... son and heir to Isabell ..yen that where the said Isabell was late seased of a messuage and ?? acres of land with appurtenances in Trevyscan within the county of Cornwall 2 .......... where with the right of the same messuage and lands descended unto your said supplicant the son and heir to the said Isabell by reason whereof he entered unto the premisses and thereby 3 ....... evidence and other muniments confirming the same messuage and lands ...to the hands and possession of one James Jakrobin ...your said oratour hath ... 4 ...... which to do he hath at all times refused and yet refuseth to the great hurt and ... of your said oratour and for as much as he knoweth not the number or contents of the 5 ....... hath no remedy by the courts of the common law which .....to his disinheritance of the same messuage and lands except your good lordship be favourably showed to 6 .... writ of subpoena be direceted to the said James commanding him by the same to appear before the King in his chambers at a certain day and under a certain pain 7 .... and in the way of charity.
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Post by dangereuse on Feb 2, 2017 15:37:23 GMT -5
Many thanks to all of you for all the information here, reading this thread seems like cheating.
In the interests of adding further information in over 200 wills I have read, Mary Lanyon nee Ellis is the only one that refers to the "quality" of her children, her father Charles Ellis says he was born in Devon in his will, so they may have missed the Heralds visitations by moving from Devon to Cornwall and not been an old established family of Cornwall?
The theory that Charles Ellis' father was Paskow Ellis (the Alderman of Penzance) is proved by his brother John's will, which my wife and I have just transcribed. John Ellis of Penzance whose will is dated 1627 (CRO AP / E / 146) has his overseers as "Pascow Ellis my father and Charles Ellis my brother".
I am particularly interested in this family and the Lanyon's as Cheston Lanyon (daughter of John Lanyon and Mary Borlase), is my 8 x Great Grand Mother and married Martyn Gubbes (who is probably descended from Anthony Gubbes, the Mayor of Penzance, but unable to prove the realtionship).
David
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Post by lipkatatar on Feb 4, 2017 13:18:36 GMT -5
The two National Archive index entries below clearly relate to the same dispute between John Lanyon and James Jakrobin. The "answer" would probably be James Jakrobin's response to the Bill of Complaint of John Lanyon and the "replication" would probably be John Lanyon's response to the "answer". Answers and Responses to a bill of complaint normally go into far more detail of the dispute than the original bill of complaint, which is normally a short statment using a set wording. Unfortunately, these latter two documents are not available on the AALT site and would require a visit to the National Archives or an extortionate payment for digital copies.
It is quite possible that this complaint was also taken to the Court of Common Pleas. Many Common Pleas images are available on the AALT site (CP40) but they are largely unindexed, so it would mean a manual search through many thousands of images (mostly in Latin) for the years in question- probably 1498-1502.
Reference:C4/59/116 Description:John Lanyen v. James Jabrobyn: Answer Date: 1501 Jan 1 - 1600 Dec 31
Reference:C4/98/66 John Lanogen v James Jakrobyn: Replication Date: 1501 Jan 1 - 1600 Dec 31
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Post by pollyq on Jun 22, 2017 17:40:26 GMT -5
Hi Lipkatatar, I do apologise for my very late reply. It's been a busy year and I've been knee deep in research on my father's side of the family which has turned up another Lanyon connection. Thank you so much for directing me to the AALT site, it's facinating to search through. And thank you for your transcriptions of the documents, I would have struggled without them. I've been researching my father's branch of the Ceely family based in St Ives but originally from Plymouth. William Ceely married Anne Penrose, and the Penrose line connects in with the Rashleigh line, specifically John Rashleigh who married Alice Lanyon (my 12x great grandparents) It's so strange to find the Lanyons on both my mother's and father's side as my father was born in Guernsey and didn't know the extent of his Cornish ancestry! I'm afraid I have yet to turn up anything new or of interest on the Lanyons but I live in hope
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Post by pollyq on Oct 24, 2017 8:29:14 GMT -5
Well I've returned to the Lanyons again because for the past year I've been mulling over a will abstract from the Cornish Genealogy Website regarding Johane Noye of Sancreed, Widow. This will piqued my interest because of the mention of Lanyons in Sancreed prior to William Lanyon of Sancreed's will in 1624. Here is the abstract and the link to the abstract on the Cornish Genealogy Website is here Johane Noye willJOHANE NOYE of Sancreed, widow written: 26 Jun 1605 proved: 4 Sep 1606 parish of Sancreed 1 ewe sheep parish of Maddern 12 d. for forgotten tithes 1 ewe sheep son: WILLIAM NOYE best brass pan of 5 gallons, 2 tin platters, 2 milche cows, 1 heifer, 2 silver spoons, 3 ewes, 3 wethers daughter: MARGARET my Irish rug, 2 silver spoons WILLIAM NOYE's 3 children 12 d. apiece MARTEN HARRY's 3 children 12 d. apiece daughter: JOHANE 1 ewe, 1 wether, 2 silver spoons, a coser, a latte?, & my best petticoat ELIZABETH HOSKEN 1 ewe sheep WILLYAM HOSKEN's children 1 ewe lamb RICHARD HOSKEN's children 1 ewe lamb poor children of Sancreed 3 pounds of wool RICHARD HOSKEN 3 pounds of my best wool WILLIAM HOSKEN 1 ewe lamb JOHANE LANYON 1 heifer & her calf SAMPSON LANYONE all the rest & executor Johane ( ) Noye witnesses: RICHARD PARKEAGE, clerk, RICHARD ( ) HOSKEN, JOHN ( ) NANGILLIAN, RICHARD BREACHE Inventory taken 31 August 1606 by JOHN LANYON, gent, SAMPSON NOYE, WILLIAM LANYON & RICHARD BREACHE AP/N/26 ++++++++++ It's interesting that John Lanyon, Gent and William Lanyon (probably the one I'm interested in) were inventory takers. What intrigues me though is that Sampson Lanyon is given "all the rest and executor". Now, I've found a marriage on the Sancreed OPC website that would fit for the Sampson Lanyon mentioned in the will. 19 Jul 1602 - Sampson Laline and Jone. It's easy to miss this as a Lanyon marriage unless you were looking for it. As usual with the early Sancreed marriages, no surname for Jone, but she could be a Noye. The will mentions daughter Johane, but then states Johane Lanyon in a separate bequest. A daughter of Sampson and Johane perhaps? There is a baptism again from Sancreed OPC that would fit, 15 Feb 1604 - Jone, daughter of Sampson Lavine (again not obviously a Lanyon but it fits the time frame) What relationship there is between Sampson and William Lanyon I cannot determine. It's so tantalising to make conjectures but I have no evidence to back them up. At some point, when I have the time and inclination, I will have a look at the original image of the will at the Cornwall Records Office. I did find on the CRO online catalogue an entry that just might be connected with the will, R Rashleigh family of Menabilly RefNo R/1154 Title Bargain and sale, houses and land at Newlyn, Paul Date 12 Nov 1586 Format Manuscript Extent 1 piece Description Parties: 1) Richard Lanyon of Gwinear, esquire, and son John Lanyon of Madron, gentleman, to 2) John Noye of Madron, yeoman. Houses and land at Newlyn. Johane Noye's bequest to Madron suggests a link to Madron, but given the amount of Noyes in Madron at this time, it's not surprising. But I do wonder if the John Noye above was Johane's husband, as John Lanyon, Gent appears on both. I know it's a tenuous link, and I'm frustrated that I haven't been able to find a ? Noye and Johane ? marriage in the surviving parish records. This research led me to look closer at the Lanyon/Noye connections which I will discuss in another post, as I'm running late Is that the time?!
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Post by pollyq on Oct 24, 2017 11:42:57 GMT -5
Further to my previous post, Margaret the daughter of Johane Noye, appears to be the wife of Marten Harry although the will doesn't actually state this. The rhythym would suggest it though (Son William, daughter Margaret, son's children, daughter's children) and several entries on the Cornwall OPC would support the theory.
A marriage at Paul,
19 Nov 1598 - Martin Harrie and Margaret (no surname) from Maderne (or Madron)
Then follows 3 baptisms at Paul,
Oct 1601 - Phillip daughter of Marten Harrie 19 Nov 1602 - William son of Marten Harrie 13 Feb 1604 - John son of Martin Harrie
This would correspond with the three children referred to in the will.
A further child was baptised in 1615, 9 Jun 1615 - Elezabeth daughter of Martin Harrie.
It's possible Martin Harrie was married previously as there are 2 baptisms at Paul in 1597 to a Merten Harrie, jun. and Marten Harrie. I can't find any burials at Paul in this time frame so can't add any evidence of a previous wife.
This connection to Paul/Newlyn area brings me back to the sale deed from the CRO again, and I can't help but think it is relevant to the Noyes that I'm looking at.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2017 14:09:03 GMT -5
No need to bother Polly - a surprise has just been emailed to you. CT
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Post by pollyq on Oct 24, 2017 14:48:11 GMT -5
Aw CT, that's really good of you, but can I ask you to resend it? I just realised I didn't change my email address on here last year and it's been sent to an email address I can't access anymore Also explains why I wasn't getting any notifications on the thread updates! Email address has been updated now Sorry to be a pain.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2017 22:18:54 GMT -5
No problem - all done.
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Post by pollyq on Oct 25, 2017 9:12:25 GMT -5
That's brilliant CT - thank you I noticed that the inventory calls her Jennett Noye, which is very interesting, because there is a marriage on the Sancreed OPC website that could possibly be the lady in question; Sancreed - 6 Jul 1572 - Richard Noye and Jenat There are no subsequent baptisms in Sancreed for children of this couple, so I'm unable to confirm the children mentioned in the will. No burials in Sancreed either for children or for Richard, if it's the right marriage. Madron's baptisms don't begin until mid-1592 so that's a no go, but the burials start earlier and I've found the burial of two possible children. Madron - 27 Dec 1583 - Richard, son of Richard Noye Madron - 23 Mar 1585 - John, son of Richard Noye There's a large gap in Madron's burial record between 1589 and 1596, so I can't confirm if this is when Johane/Jennett became a widow, although it's possible. Anyway, I've wandered away from the Lanyons again! But sometimes I just have to follow my nose to see where it leads. I can now discount the deed as an unlikely candidate as a spouse for Johane/Jennett anyway.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 25, 2017 13:47:30 GMT -5
Happy to be of some help as always. At least that is one more item you can cross off your 'to do' list - and in shorter time than you expected which means you can get on with other things that might yield more fruit.
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Post by lisab on Oct 25, 2017 22:35:01 GMT -5
The remaining question is to try to figure out the origin of the William Lanyon who died 1624 leaving his will as discussed in the prior posting. The problem is not made easier by the fact that there seems to have been a family with the surname of Lanner (variant of Lanherne?) in Sancreed from the late 1500’s onwards also. However these records seem to be reasonably self-consistent and separate from the Lanyon (and variants). The Sancreed registers record the following Lanyon marriages between 1559-1700 10 Nov 1564 Digory Lanyne & Jane 24 May 1584 Frances Lanyne & Ales 16 Nov 1584 John Lannyne & Mary 19 Nov 1592 Willyam Lanyne & Jane 29 Nov 1593 Benatt Lanyne & Jane 29 Oct 1636 John Lanion & Nann Jop Like some early Sancreed baptisms with a father as George Lanyon, it is not clear what (if any) relationship the marriage of Digory Lanyon might have. Taken together, the four marriages in the 1580s and 1590’s make an interesting group, although it is always possible that there is nothing more than co-incidence here. The 1584 marriage involves Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – this is the line in the ancestral seat at Lanion. William Lanyon and Benatt Lanyon seem likely to be related, either as brothers (most likely) or close cousins since Benatt is both a witness to the will of William Lanyon, and also takes the inventory. Benatt’s known children also suggest the possibility of a connection to the main Lanyon lineage with the use of the name Walter: Walter s. of Benet Lanyne bapt. 22 Sept. 1594 Sancreed Thomas s. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 8 Feb. 1595 Sancreed Mary d. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 24 Feb. 1596 Sancreed Jane d. of Benet Lanyen bapt. 6 July 1599 Sancreed However, confusing the issue in a way I cannot yet unravel with any certainty are the following baptisms at Madron: 16 Jan 1615, Bennett, son of Francis Lanyon 23 June 1616, Sampson son of Francis Lanyon I’m not sure whether the father of these two this is the same person (with a different wife?) or perhaps even the son of Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – or whether he is a completely different Francis Lanyon. Part of the reason for the confusion is that Raphe Lanyon, gent, is baptising children at Madron through the 1590’s and right up to 1604, just before Raphe’s burial in 1605. Raphe is the brother of John who married Phillipa Millaton, and therefore uncle to Francis. Francis Lanyon, son of John & Phillipa has a brother William (per Vivian). This William is the right generation to be the William Lanyon who married Jane in 1592. And if this was the case, and in turn if Francis is father or grandfather of the Bennet Lanyon baptised in 1615, then it would be plausible to consider that since William’s will suggests he had a brother Bennet that then we would have three siblings: Francis, William and Benatt, all children of John Lanyon and Phillipa Millaton. The remaining marriage, the 1584 marriage of John Lanyon to Mary remains outstanding. At this time there is no clearly obvious place to put it within the main Lanyon tree, but given it’s grouping with the other three discussed above, it is tempting to consider John as another child of John & Phillipa Lanyon with a possible sibling order of: Francis, John, William and Benatt. Interested in the thoughts of other on this - am I building a tower out of feathers and reading too much here?
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Post by lisab on Oct 25, 2017 22:50:16 GMT -5
I descend from the George Lanyon (Died 1592 Sancreed) you mention below. His daughter Jane/Jeane Baptised 22 Feb 1568 at Sancreed married George Bosence (Baptised Aug 1567) in 1601 at Sancreed and their children were: Sampson Bosence my ancestor married Earth Richards William John Thomas Benatt Richard George There seems to be some names that are the same as those you have listed such as Richard, Benatt and Sampson which appear to be Lanyon names. So I think there is a possibliity that Digory, Frances etc are all one family maybe nephews of my George. The remaining question is to try to figure out the origin of the William Lanyon who died 1624 leaving his will as discussed in the prior posting. The problem is not made easier by the fact that there seems to have been a family with the surname of Lanner (variant of Lanherne?) in Sancreed from the late 1500’s onwards also. However these records seem to be reasonably self-consistent and separate from the Lanyon (and variants). The Sancreed registers record the following Lanyon marriages between 1559-1700 10 Nov 1564 Digory Lanyne & Jane 24 May 1584 Frances Lanyne & Ales 16 Nov 1584 John Lannyne & Mary 19 Nov 1592 Willyam Lanyne & Jane 29 Nov 1593 Benatt Lanyne & Jane 29 Oct 1636 John Lanion & Nann Jop Like some early Sancreed baptisms with a father as George Lanyon, it is not clear what (if any) relationship the marriage of Digory Lanyon might have. Taken together, the four marriages in the 1580s and 1590’s make an interesting group, although it is always possible that there is nothing more than co-incidence here. The 1584 marriage involves Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – this is the line in the ancestral seat at Lanion. William Lanyon and Benatt Lanyon seem likely to be related, either as brothers (most likely) or close cousins since Benatt is both a witness to the will of William Lanyon, and also takes the inventory. Benatt’s known children also suggest the possibility of a connection to the main Lanyon lineage with the use of the name Walter: Walter s. of Benet Lanyne bapt. 22 Sept. 1594 Sancreed Thomas s. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 8 Feb. 1595 Sancreed Mary d. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 24 Feb. 1596 Sancreed Jane d. of Benet Lanyen bapt. 6 July 1599 Sancreed However, confusing the issue in a way I cannot yet unravel with any certainty are the following baptisms at Madron: 16 Jan 1615, Bennett, son of Francis Lanyon 23 June 1616, Sampson son of Francis Lanyon I’m not sure whether the father of these two this is the same person (with a different wife?) or perhaps even the son of Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – or whether he is a completely different Francis Lanyon. Part of the reason for the confusion is that Raphe Lanyon, gent, is baptising children at Madron through the 1590’s and right up to 1604, just before Raphe’s burial in 1605. Raphe is the brother of John who married Phillipa Millaton, and therefore uncle to Francis. Francis Lanyon, son of John & Phillipa has a brother William (per Vivian). This William is the right generation to be the William Lanyon who married Jane in 1592. And if this was the case, and in turn if Francis is father or grandfather of the Bennet Lanyon baptised in 1615, then it would be plausible to consider that since William’s will suggests he had a brother Bennet that then we would have three siblings: Francis, William and Benatt, all children of John Lanyon and Phillipa Millaton. The remaining marriage, the 1584 marriage of John Lanyon to Mary remains outstanding. At this time there is no clearly obvious place to put it within the main Lanyon tree, but given it’s grouping with the other three discussed above, it is tempting to consider John as another child of John & Phillipa Lanyon with a possible sibling order of: Francis, John, William and Benatt. Interested in the thoughts of other on this - am I building a tower out of feathers and reading too much here?
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Post by pollyq on Nov 2, 2017 10:37:13 GMT -5
Hi Lisab, You're right, the Bosence names would suggest a link, and it would certainly be worth investigating. I've yet to get round to seeing George Lanyon's will dated 1616 at the Cornwall Records Office so if anyone could give me an abstract of the details I would be very grateful. I'm trying to build up a picture of the Lanyon family ties in and around Sancreed/Madron area but it's difficult. And in the back of my head I have the Breage branch of Lanyons and their naming patterns. I've presented this document in the thread earlier, ME Edgcumbe family of Cotehele, Calstock and Mount Edgcumbe, Maker Ref No ME/501 Title: Quitclaim, land in Menyghye Veor, Wendron Date: 1 May 1587 Format: Manuscript Extent: 1 piece Description Parties: 1) Bennett Lanyen and Francis Lanyen, gentlemen, of Breage 2) William Lanyen of Breage, gentleman, father of party 1. Property: Land held of demise of Edwward Sparnan, gentleman, deceased, in Menyghye Veor in Wendron. So William Lanyon of Breage had William Lanyon that married Elizabeth Kearne alias Tresilian in 1572, as Trencom shows earlier in the thread, and also another two sons called Bennett and Francis, both Gentlemen and therefore both of full age. I really do wish the Lanyons were more creative in naming their children!
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