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Post by lipkatatar on Dec 15, 2015 13:04:39 GMT -5
I believe that we can rule out Richard Lanyon's brother John as father of Mary Ellis' husband. Richard gave details of his cousin's family in his Visitation returns, so would surely have included his brother's family. Gilbert's Historical Survey of Cornwall, 1820, Vol.2, p186, suggests that Richard's brother John died unmarried.
The documents below, held at the UK National Archives, may provide evidence that would identify Mary Ellis' husband:
Reference: C 10/62/58 Description: John Lanyon v John Lanyon, John Lanyon and Walter Lanyon: Morval, Cornwall. Bill and answer Date: 1661
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 15, 2015 22:19:02 GMT -5
Hmmm - there may be something helpful in there but I would not be holding my breath. MORVAL is quite some distance 'up-country' from MORVAH.
Morvah as we know is between St Just and Zennor whilst Morval is at the other end of the County with St Martin by Looe to the South, Liskeard and Menheniot to the North and imediately to the West is St Germans.
I would think these might be a completely different Lanyon family.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 15, 2015 22:48:35 GMT -5
I don't appear to have a copy of Gilbert's Historical Survey but I have over time downloaded a few other interesting books on Cornwall. An item on page 242 of Volume III of Hals and Tonkin's Parochial History of Cornwall brings me to suggest once again that we perhaps should be paying more attention to Morvah! Page 242 is headed 'Morvah' and contains the following:- The chief place, and almost the only one of note in this little parish, is Tregamynyon, that is, the stony dwelling, which was for several generations in the family of Lanyon, and the residence of a younger branch thereof ever since the 30th of Queen Elizabeth; for in Trinity term the 31st year of her reign was a fine passed at Westminster between William Lanyon, gent. and Richard Lanyon, esq. and John Lanyon, gent. of three messuages, ten acres of meadow, sixty acres of pasture, one hundred and fifty acres of furze, one water-mill, &c. in Tregamynyon. Here his posterity flourished in good repute till the reign of Queen Anne, when John Lanyon, of this place, gent. and John Lanyon, jun. his son and heir, joined in the sale of this estate to John Borlase, of Pendeen, esq. who is the present possessor thereof. The said John Lanyon, jun. married to his wife Frances Brydges, sister to James Lord Chandos, and aunt to the Duke of that name, who is since dead without issue, being well stricken in years when he married, and twice a widower before. John Lanyon, the father, married ------ Borlase, of Pendeen. His grandfather was commonly called the Golden Lanyon, as having gotten great riches by tin, which he divided among his numerous issue; but before I quit this place I must relate for the benefit of my readers what Mr Lanyon, sen. told me respecting the covering of his house, as it may be of great use to persons building in high and exposed places. (etc. etc.)This makes very interesting reading I think and certainly gives cause to suggest the husband of Mary Ellis may be linked to Morvah rather than to Sancreed/Penzance and Richard Lanyon. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 15, 2015 23:32:43 GMT -5
After writing and then reading my last post I have done some more searching and found the following on the OPC site:-
At Trinity Minories on 13th June 1697 a London Marriage Licence was issued for John Lanyon, gent., age 28, of St Ives Cornwall, bachelor and Frances Clarke of St Margaret's, Westminster, age 45, widow.
This is John son of John Lanyon and Mary Borlase and undoubtedly the widowed Frances Clarke is the Frances Brydges mentioned in the passage I quoted in my last post. John was baptised in 1664 so would have been about 33 rather than 28 as recorded. And his being 'of St Ives' at the time coincides approximately with what we had already observed - that the Lanyon family from Morvah had made the move to St Ives at least by 1698 when daughter Cheston married Martin Gubbs. Youngest daughter Jane married John Hichens at St Ives in 1705 the year after her mother, Mary Borlase, had been buried there.
The task now I think is to try and source BTs for the period at Morvah prior to 1650.
CT
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Post by lipkatatar on Dec 15, 2015 23:57:40 GMT -5
Hi CT!
I often find that the compilers of the indices at the National Archives who cannot be expected to have local knowledge of names and places for every county in the country often make guesses that would not be made by a researcher with a more detailed local knowledge. I suspect that the Morval referred to in the Discovery index may in fact be Morvah.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2015 1:47:35 GMT -5
Hi Lipkatatar - yes, I have found that also but my point was that Morvah and Morval are two separate and distant parishes. Also of note is that in 1641 there are numerous Lanyons in the Padstow/St Merryn area which is, as you probably know, on the North Coast and almost due northwest from Morval. The stress here is 'caution'. And as for Morvah - I think it would be very interesting to be able to get a look at the Will of William Lanyon of Morvah dated 1619! CT (I was looking at all this when I got paged for a firecall which fortunately, this time, turned out to be a false alarm)
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2015 1:54:31 GMT -5
Here is another document to consider with regards to Morvah and Morval:- The previous document quoted by Lipkatatar mentions a Walter Lanyon and there certainly was a Walter Lanyon at Madron but if there was a John Lanyon at Plymouth in 1680 then perhaps the Morval information might not be a mistranscription. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2015 3:00:41 GMT -5
Then there is this which might provide a link between the Lanyons at Plymouth back to Madron.
Morvah vs Morval might be a dubious issue but if there is a John Lanyon involved in documents during the 16th and 17th Centuries then those documents are well worth looking at.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2015 3:24:26 GMT -5
On reading further through the CRO Catalogue Lanyon references I have found one record which suggests a Richard Lanyon at St Ervan (near Padstow) in 1632 had something to do with Trengwainton in Madron. And I also found this next piece which seems to reinforce the possibility of a John Lanyon in or around Morval. Pillaton is not far from Morval and just north of St Stephens by Saltash:- Further documents relating to Pillaton along with lands in St Neot, St Cleer and Liskeard all dated in the 1680s also bear the signiature of John Lanyon as a witness. Most of these documents seem to concern the Coryton Family of Pentillie, Pillaton and most concern properties in the area of St Neot and Liskeard and east to the Tamar. That a John Lanyon, and in one case and Edward Lanyon, to be a witness suggests to me that he was of the area. I should note that I did read earlier that the Lanyon family of Cornwall originated in Lanyon, France and used the same design for their Coat of Arms. So are all the Lanyons in Cornwall related?? An addition - in 1595 there is a deed which mentions a John Lanyon then holding the moiety of Gilbert which the document suggests was probably in Perranzabuloe. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2015 4:05:25 GMT -5
Finally - the following CRO items might be helpful (or at least of interest). The last item for Illogan involves William Lanyon of Sancreed and John Lanyon of St Ives who I believe will be brothers (William married Jane Keigwin and John married Mary Borlase) and their cousin John son of William Lanyon of Illogan.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1154
Title Bargain and sale, houses and land at Newlyn, Paul
Date 12 Nov 1586
Format Manuscript
Extent 1 piece
Description Parties: 1) Richard Lanyon of Gwinear, esquire, and son John Lanyon of Madron, gentleman, to 2) John Noye of Madron, yeoman. Houses and land at Newlyn.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1155
Title Bargain and sale, houses and land at Newlyn, Paul
Date 4 Jul 1587
Format Manuscript
Extent 1 piece
Description Parties: 1) Richard Lanyon of [?] Gwinear, esquire, and son John Lanyon of Madron, gentleman, to 2) Nicholas Botestowe of Newlyn, husbandman. Houses and land in Newlyn. Flamank Schedule of Title Deeds number 27.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1166
Title Prenuptial settlement, Lanyon manor
Date 15 Oct 1562
Format Manuscript
Extent 1 piece
Description Parties: 1) William Millton of Pengersick, esquire, to 2) William Lanyon of Gwinear, esquire, and son Richard Lanyon, on marriage of John Lanyon, son of Richard Lanyon, and Philippa, daughter of William Milton. Manor of Lanyon. Flamank Schedule of Title Deeds number 1.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1169
Title Bargain and sale, Lanyon manor
Date 10 Jan 1606
Format Manuscript
Extent 1 piece
Description Parties: 1) John Noy of St Buryan, gentleman, to 2) Richard Lanyon of Treveglos, gentleman. Property mortgaged to John Noy by John Lanyon, deceased, grandfather of Richard Lanyon. Flamank Schedule of Title Deeds number 5.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1175
Title Quitclaim, Lanyon manor
Date 28 Mar 1627
Format Manuscript
Extent 1 piece
Description Parties: 1) James Jenkyn, gentleman, querant 2) Richard Lanyon, esquire, and wife Joan, deforciants. Flamank Schedule of Title Deeds number 12.
R Rashleigh family of Menabilly Ref No R/1202
Title Lease and counterpart, Laynon and Ressick, Madron
Date 29 Sep 1679
Format Manuscript
Extent 2 pieces
Description Parties: 1) Jonathan Rashleigh of Menabilly, esquire, to 2) Walter Lanyon of Madron, gentleman. Lease for 99 years.
WH/1 Whitford and Sons, solicitors, of St Columb Major Ref No WH/1/3078
Title Lease and release, Trevannell, Illogan
Date 23-24 May 1690
Format Manuscript
Extent 2 pieces
Description Parties: 1) John Lanyon of Illogan, gentleman, John Lanyon of St Ives, gentleman and William Lanyon of Sancreed, gentleman to 2) John Foote of Truro, gentleman. Consideration: to secure payment of £155 by John Lanyon of Illogan to John Foote. Tenements in Trevannall in Illogan late occupation John Lanyon of Illogan and Ralph Tonkin alias Trevewa. Lease for a year and bond to perform covenants pinned to release. Also counterpart release.
CT
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Post by lipkatatar on Dec 16, 2015 15:36:49 GMT -5
This post originated with Pollyq questioning which Paskis Lanyon was married to Thomas Shetford. As the will of Mary (Ellis) Lanyon from 1676 mentions that she was the godmother of the youngest daughter of William Shutford I looked into this to see if it would shed some light on the Paskis Lanyon question. I found no clear link to Paskis Lanyon, but discovered a tale of fraud involving William Shutford and John Perrow. William Shutford was the son of Christopher Shutford and his wife Katherine. Christopher was the son of William Shutford and Elizabeth, the heiress of Trereife. In 1558 William offered for sale the property at Trereife, claiming that the only encumbrance was a £10 a year annuity to his mother Katherine. Richard Vosper purchased the property for £180. A few months later John Perrow came forward and claimed that he had been granted the properties the previous year in return for £500 he was owed by William Shetford. The dispute came to court in 1562 but the case lapsed with the death of John Perrow. A few years later, Vosper was granted leave to reopen the case with the infant son of John Perrow as defendant. James, the son & heir of John Perrow was represented in court by his mother Mary. In June 1667 the Court of Chancery found Perrow guilty of fraud. The property was confirmed as belonging to Richard Vosper, but no costs were awarded against James Perrow as he was still a child. aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no722/IMG_0143.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no722/IMG_0144.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no722/IMG_0145.htmaalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no722/IMG_0146.htm
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Post by lipkatatar on Dec 16, 2015 15:40:37 GMT -5
The dates 1558 and 1562 in my previous post should be 1658 and 1662.
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Post by trencrom on Dec 18, 2015 5:29:31 GMT -5
Given the Ellis family were apparently freemen in Penzance (Paskow Snr at least and likely Charles his presumed son), and sufficiently up the social stratum for Charles to be marrying women from minor landed gentry families, and Charles' presumed father to be both Alderman and Mayor of Penzance, it still surprises me somewhat that the Ellis family managed to avoid "capture" by the Heralds - especially as a Paskow Ellys was an Alderman at the time of 1620 Visitation! The heralds recorded the pedigrees of people who either claimed gentry status or a entitlement to a coat of arms, or both, and who were able to prove their claims to the heralds. They also made lists of people whose claims were disproved! Marrying a daughter of a minor gentry family did not make mean that the groom thereby became one of the gentry himself. Younger sons of minor gentry were themselves often no more than yeomen. So it is not surprising if the husbands of the daughters of minor gentry are also lower on the social scale than the family they married into, and hence not represented in the visitations. As an interesting aside, while double checking the references on Paskow Ellis/Ellys, I found a reference that seems to confirm a reasonably close relationship between the Borlase and Ellis families. In the book "Descent, Name and Arms of Borlase of Borlase in the County of Cornwall", originally published 1888 on pages 145-146, there are references to show that when John Borlase (son of John Borlase and Cheston Pawley, and therefore brother to Mary Borlase who married John Lanyon) made his will, one of the tenements he disposed was: To his son Richard Borlase he leaves his tenement in Cellan called Codna Gooth, "now in the possession of Paskow Ellis, in the parish of St. Crett", which he purchased of Robert Baynard of the same parish. This does not of itself mean that there was a close connection between the families. It probably just means that the tenement in question was being leased by Paskow at the time. In other words, he was a Borlase tenant at Sancreed Trencrom.
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Post by swiper on Aug 14, 2016 1:12:32 GMT -5
Hi there,
I have just been reading through this thread. Thanks for all the information. The research you do is amazing. I'm nowhere near up to your skill levels. Also being in Australia does not help with being able to “sight/source” original records and documents etc.
I was just wondering if anyone has any updates as to whether any “proof” has been found as to whether the Paskis Lanion/yon married to Thomas Shetford/Shutford (marriage 1625, St Just Penwith) is the daughter of William Lanyon, or Richard Lanyon?
If William, do we know his origins yet – can we link him to the “Lanyon of Lanyon”/visitations ancestry? I was wondering if the “Lanyon/Shetford” dispute papers of 1649 that “lipkatatar” was perhaps going to view in London had shed any light on the links with Shetford and Lanyon?
Or whether pollyq has any more up to date finds in relation to her queries? Polly perhaps we are distantly related if you descend from Paskis/Thomas too?
Paskis and Thomas Shetford are my 10th great grandparents and I'm pretty sure of the links up to there but I would really like to know more about whether a proper links for Paskis to the Paskis' to the (posh haha) Lanyon family can be established.
Thanks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 3:29:51 GMT -5
I have Richard Lanyon and Jane Mooring as the parents of Paskis Lanyon. Richard was baptised 8.9.1585 in Sancreed and Jane was b.c 1585 in Little Torrington Devon. Richard died 1.3.1636. Paskis was born 1609 in Sancreed and died 17.1.1682 in St Just in Penwith. She married Thomas Shutford 13.6.1625 in St Just in Penwith.
I hope this helps
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