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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 10, 2015 6:58:02 GMT -5
Yes, Richard Tresilian is named as a son-in-law in the Will of Mary Lanyon (nee Ellis) in 1676. Mary also mentions grandchildren John Perrow and Mary Tresilian.
CT
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Post by gandolf on Dec 10, 2015 18:35:22 GMT -5
Curiously, if I am reading the Latin correctly, John seems to call his wife "Maria Paskow als Lanyon" suggesting her family name may have been Paskow als Ellis? On having another look following recent posts, it seems I was not reading the Latin correctly after all. A closer look at the will shows that the name is not John's wife at all, but in fact occurs in a long listing of all his surviving children. As lipkatatar states regarding the entry in the Sententia, what I initially took to be "Maria Paskow als Lanyon" in the will is indeed in actual fact "Maria Perrow als Lanyon". In other words, John's eldest (and widowed) daughter. I have not seen the will, but in the "Sententia" available in the National Archives (Prob/11/325/25) the executrix of his estate is named as his wife, Mary Lanyon. His children are named as Mary Perrow al(ia)s Lanyon, Jane Lanyon, Joanna Lanyon, Robert Lanyon, William Lanyon, Tobias Lanyon, Francis Lanyon, Charles Lanyon, Phillip Lanyon, Thomas Lanyon and John Lanyon ("liberos dicti defuncti" - "children of the said deceased"). Having had another close look at John's will, I would suggest that the transcriber who created the original list of John's children for the Sententia has made a similar mistake to what I did with Mary Perrow als Lanyon. John & Mary Lanyon did not have a son Robert, but they did have a daughter Rebecca. In John's will her name is Latinised as Rebeccain, but the way it is written it could potentially be read as a corrupted version of Robertain or similar if you did not know what you were looking at.
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Post by gandolf on Dec 10, 2015 19:51:46 GMT -5
Based on what I am seeing at the moment, this thread seems to have come full circle back to Pollyq’s original post – a bit like Ouroboros. The more I examine the family, the more likely it seems that John Lanyon, husband of Mary Borlase is the son of John Lanyon & Mary Ellis, and that John Lanyon (the father) is likely the brother of the Paskis, and both children of William as discussed in Pollyq’s original post. ------ John Lanyon of Sancreed, who died 1664 and left his will naming wife Mary and a long list of children actually had two wives. I see his family as follows: John Lanyon married 29 Oct 1636 at Sancreed to Nann (Ann) Jopp. Ann appears to have died in childbirth, and was buried 2 Feb 1637/8 at Sancreed. John & Ann’s daughter, also called Ann, was baptised the same day – 2 Feb 1637/8, but was buried 7 months later on 2 Sep 1638. John Lanyon remarried 17 Feb 1639/40 at St. Just in Penwith to Mary Ellis, dau of Charles Ellis, gent. In the following list, the use of Mr or Mrs with a name would indicate the person was of high status. Unless otherwise stated, all events at Sancreed. The children of John & Mary were: John | bapt. 1 Jan 1641/2 | (almost certainly the husband of Mary Borlase) | Mary | bapt. 24 Dec 1643 | 1)mar. (as Mrs.) 17 Jul 1662 at St. Buryan to (Mr) John Perrow | | | 2)mar. (as Mrs.) 27 Sep 1673 at St. Buryan to (Mr) Richard Tresillian | Hugh | bapt. 26 Nov 1644/5 | buried 13 Jun 1645 | Phillip (daughter) | bapt. 25 Jan 1645/6 | buried 21 May 1646 | William | bapt. 18 Jul 1647 | Married (as Mr.) 6 Mar 1670 at St. Buryan to (Mrs) Jane Keigwin of Mousehold | Tobias | bapt. 24 Nov 1648 | Married (as. Mr.) 15 Feb 1670 at St. Buryan to (Mrs.) Jane Tresilian | Joanne (Jane) | bapt. 13 Jan 1648/9 | Married (as Mrs) 2 Mar 1670 at St. Buryan to (Mr.) Richard Bosustow of St. Levan | Francis | bapt. 22 Feb 1651/2 | Married (as gent.) 31 Dec 1681 at Madron to Phillip ______ | Joanne (Joan) | bapt. 17 Oct 1653 | | Rebecca | born 26 Feb 1656 | Married (as Mrs. – in some indexes as Rovena) 18 Apr 1676 at St. Ives to Thomas Trenwith | Charles | born 29 Apr 1658 | | Phillip (son) | born 9 Oct 1659 | | Thomas | bapt. 27 Jun 1661 | |
All of the children above married as Mr or Mrs, indicating higher status, and they married into other families that also had some level of status and/or wealth. Interestingly, Thomas Trenwith, husband of Rebecca, had both a mother and paternal aunt who were Lanyons. He was the son of Renatus Trenwith, who according to Vivian was married to Joane (bur. 21 May 1663 St. Ives), daughter of William Lanyon (although no context supplied for William). Renatus’s younger brother Ezekiel Trenwith married 27 Mar 1654 at St. Ives to Elizabeth Lanyon, daughter of William Lanyon, Gent. of Gwinear (Vivian incorrectly lists the year of the marriage as 1614). Elizabeth and Joane seem to be sisters, both the children of William Lanyon of Gwinear and his wife Elizabeth Lee, and hence the also the sisters of the first known Tobias Lanyon. Which would suggest that Thomas Trenwith was a cousin of some degree to his wife Rebecca Lanyon. The cousinship relationship is further strengthened considering that Thomas Trenwith (husband of Rebecca) was himself the grandson of Thomas Trenwith and Elizabeth Millaton, which Elizabeth was the sister of Phillipa Millaton who married John Lanyon of Lanion I’ll go into more detail on how I see the origins of John Lanyon (husband of Nann Jopp & Mary Ellis in following post(s).
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Post by gandolf on Dec 10, 2015 21:12:00 GMT -5
While there is some evidence to support the presence of Lanyons at Sancreed from the start of the Elizabethan era (as early as the 1566) it is not entirely clear when they moved there and whether the earliest family (that of a George Lanyon during 1566-1575) is directly connected to the Lanyons at Sancreed from the late 1500’s onwards. I suspect George may be at best only distantly related as the names used for his children, let alone George as a name, do not appear in the other later Lanyon families (at least for many decades).
As mentioned in my previous post, John Lanyon, of Sancreed (husband of Nann Jopp and Mary Ellis) was probably born in the range 1600-1615 based on his first marriage, and died as mentioned in the previous post in 1664.
In Pollyq’s original post on this thread, she mentioned the will summary for William Lanyon, died 1624. ----- WILLIAM LANYON of Sancreed (AP/L/256) written: 24 Dec 1624, proved: 8 Feb 1624/5
poor od Sancreed - 3 sh. poor of St. Just - 5 sh. poor of Gulval - 12 d. poor of Maddern - 12 d. poor of Antony - 12 d. poor of Buryan - 12 d. daughter: ELIZABETH - mare, 3 sheep, calf, mare colt JOHN her son - calf & a sheep WILLIAM her son - calf & a sheep daughter: JANE - calf, 1 sheep, brazen crock daughter JANE's child - a ewe lamb daughter: PASKAS - 4 kyne, mare, 10 sheep, 10 pounds youngest daughter: ELIZABETH - 4 kyne, 10 sheep, 10 pounds son: WILLIAM - all my part of tin and tin stuff, 13 pounds, 6 sh., 3 d. son: JOHN - all the rest & executor
no signature witnesses: REGINALD DAVY, THOMAS FLAVELL, BENET LANYON Inventory taken 15 January 1624/5 by BENET LANYON, REGINALD DAVY & JOHN BAVLLEN als. PETER -----
This is the family of William Lanyon, buried 17 Jan 1624/5 at Sancreed, who had married 19 Nov 1592 at Sancreed to Jane ____. Which Jane was buried prior to her husband on 21 Sep 1619 at Sancreed. Combining the details from the above will summary with known baptisms, their children were: Elizabeth (the elder), bapt. 31 Oct 1593 Sancreed John, bapt. 8 Jun 1596 Sancreed Jane, bapt. 24 Oct. 1602 Sancreed William, bapt, __ Dec 1603 Sancreed Paskis, (est. birth around 1606) Elizabeth (the younger), bapt. 17 Jul 1607 Sancreed
Based on the fact that he is a witness to the will, I am fairly certain that Jane Lanyon married 21 Nov 1619 at Sancreed to Thomas Flavell/Favell. They had one known child prior to William’s death in early 1625, consistent with the will giving Jane a single child, but having seven children in all: Grace, d of Thomas Favell & Jane, bapt. 10th Feb 1620 Sancreed Peter, s of Thomas Favell & Jane, bapt. 17th April 1626 Sancreed Humfrey, s of Thomas Favell & Jane, bapt. 10th Jan 1628 Sancreed Elizabeth, d of Thomas Favell, bapt. 24th June 1631 Sancreed Thomas, s of Thomas Favell & Jane, bapt. 5th Dec 1633 Sancreed John, s of Thomas Favell & Joane, bapt. 4th April 1636 Sancreed Marie, d of Thomas Favell & Jane, bapt. 7th Oct 1638 Sancreed
Jane (nee Lanyon) Favell appears to have been buried at Paul, on 23 Sep 1663, with husband John also buried at Paul on 25 Aug 1658.
As Pollyq mentioned, Paskis Lanyon appears to have married Thomas Shetford in St Just in Penwith on 13 Jun 1625.
As for the married Elizabeth in William’s will, she would have to be his older daughter. I am not certain at this stage, but at the moment I am strongly leaning towards her being the unidentified Elizabeth who marries at Sancreed on 29 Jan 1617 to John Nowell als Peares. This seems to be the best fit so far identified, albeit not a perfect fit. Note, given there is a John Nowell having children at Sancreed between 1600-1615, it is possible that the John who married in 1617 had been previously married, but given a lack of evidence for any burials at Sancreed in the time frame, at the moment I suspect the two John Nowells are different (possibly father-son?).
John Nowell (als Peares) and Elizabeth had the following children: John, s of John Nowle & Elizabeth, bapt. 9th Sep 1619 Sancreed Peskes, d of John Nowell & Elizabeth, bapt. 24th Aug 1622 Sancreed Thomas, s of John Noale alis Peares & Elizabeth, bapt. 21st July 1628 Sancreed
The first named, John, is likely to be the John, son of Elizabeth named in William Lanyon’s will. Although no baptism can be located, there is plenty of room for another son called William to be born prior to 1625 in order to become the second named son of Elizabeth in William Lanyon’s will. The naming of a daughter Peskes suggests the possibility she was named after Paskis Lanyon, daughter of William and (assuming I am correct) aunt of Peskes Nowell.
And as for the first born son of William Lanyon and Jane mentioned above, I am strongly of the opinion at this time that he is a very good candidate to be the same man who married Nann Jopp in 1636 and Mary Ellis in 1639.
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Post by gandolf on Dec 10, 2015 23:06:27 GMT -5
The remaining question is to try to figure out the origin of the William Lanyon who died 1624 leaving his will as discussed in the prior posting. The problem is not made easier by the fact that there seems to have been a family with the surname of Lanner (variant of Lanherne?) in Sancreed from the late 1500’s onwards also. However these records seem to be reasonably self-consistent and separate from the Lanyon (and variants).
The Sancreed registers record the following Lanyon marriages between 1559-1700 10 Nov 1564 Digory Lanyne & Jane 24 May 1584 Frances Lanyne & Ales 16 Nov 1584 John Lannyne & Mary 19 Nov 1592 Willyam Lanyne & Jane 29 Nov 1593 Benatt Lanyne & Jane 29 Oct 1636 John Lanion & Nann Jop
Like some early Sancreed baptisms with a father as George Lanyon, it is not clear what (if any) relationship the marriage of Digory Lanyon might have.
Taken together, the four marriages in the 1580s and 1590’s make an interesting group, although it is always possible that there is nothing more than co-incidence here.
The 1584 marriage involves Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – this is the line in the ancestral seat at Lanion.
William Lanyon and Benatt Lanyon seem likely to be related, either as brothers (most likely) or close cousins since Benatt is both a witness to the will of William Lanyon, and also takes the inventory.
Benatt’s known children also suggest the possibility of a connection to the main Lanyon lineage with the use of the name Walter: Walter s. of Benet Lanyne bapt. 22 Sept. 1594 Sancreed Thomas s. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 8 Feb. 1595 Sancreed Mary d. of Benat Lanyne bapt. 24 Feb. 1596 Sancreed Jane d. of Benet Lanyen bapt. 6 July 1599 Sancreed
However, confusing the issue in a way I cannot yet unravel with any certainty are the following baptisms at Madron: 16 Jan 1615, Bennett, son of Francis Lanyon 23 June 1616, Sampson son of Francis Lanyon
I’m not sure whether the father of these two this is the same person (with a different wife?) or perhaps even the son of Francis Lanyon, son and heir of John Lanyon & Phillipa Millaton – or whether he is a completely different Francis Lanyon. Part of the reason for the confusion is that Raphe Lanyon, gent, is baptising children at Madron through the 1590’s and right up to 1604, just before Raphe’s burial in 1605. Raphe is the brother of John who married Phillipa Millaton, and therefore uncle to Francis.
Francis Lanyon, son of John & Phillipa has a brother William (per Vivian). This William is the right generation to be the William Lanyon who married Jane in 1592. And if this was the case, and in turn if Francis is father or grandfather of the Bennet Lanyon baptised in 1615, then it would be plausible to consider that since William’s will suggests he had a brother Bennet that then we would have three siblings: Francis, William and Benatt, all children of John Lanyon and Phillipa Millaton.
The remaining marriage, the 1584 marriage of John Lanyon to Mary remains outstanding. At this time there is no clearly obvious place to put it within the main Lanyon tree, but given it’s grouping with the other three discussed above, it is tempting to consider John as another child of John & Phillipa Lanyon with a possible sibling order of: Francis, John, William and Benatt.
Interested in the thoughts of other on this - am I building a tower out of feathers and reading too much here?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2015 6:19:37 GMT -5
I am not so sure about this scenario - I have been looking at images of the Sancreed PR and I think there are serious issues with the supposed burial of Ann Lanyon in 1637. Firstly the burial on the 2nd of February is NOT that of a Lanion. That burial is the penultimate burial for 1637 and I read the first name as possibly being MARIE. In fact on further viewing I think it is the burial of 'Marie daughter of Richard Badcock' with the date written as 'second'. The next and final entry for 1637 is for the most part very faint but I can see nothing that resembles Ann or Lanyon in it. Perhaps helping to complicate this entry is the very large and bold capital letter P which is written at the immediate left of the entry. This letter P is on it's back and forms part of a large symbolic entry that looks like 'Anno P'. This has been entered in the left margin towards the top of the page with the page having first been been rotated 90 degrees clockwise. The 'A' in this Symbol is missing the crossbar but has a diagram sketched between the two diagonals. Above the 'nno' (of Anno) is a very large and bold G (or perhaps C) which has also been 'decorated'. And then comes the 'P' also with its own little sketch inserted. What is the source you have for this burial? - The OPC does not have any Sancreed burials prior to 1643. CT
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Post by gandolf on Dec 11, 2015 8:24:23 GMT -5
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2015 14:43:37 GMT -5
Ah,thanks Gandolf - that is a transcript of Hoblyn which I have had hidden away in my Sancreed collection (but not looked at) for a few years. The entry you quote is certainly there but it is the first entry on the page and the entry immediately prior to the Badcock burial I mentioned in my last. With the help of the Hoblyn transcript I can now see the entry but I have to say that it is extremely difficult to read. In fact even with the software enhancements available to me I could not accurately read the record without Hoblyn.
CT
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Post by gandolf on Dec 11, 2015 17:01:06 GMT -5
The other place I was looking was the "West Penwith Resources" site, which has the same/similar data
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2015 23:22:39 GMT -5
With the benefit of the Hoblyn transcript it is possible to make out the details of the entry in the PR for the burial of Ann Lanion but trying to read that entry 'blind' made the task nigh on impossible with the image I have.
I am now happy with the conclusion that John Lanyon was married twice.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2015 23:37:00 GMT -5
I now have evidence/proof that John Lanyon of Morvah, husband of Mary Borlase, was indeed the son of John Lanyon and Mary Ellis of Sancreed!!! I have just read through the Will of Mary Lanyon of St Levan (1676) again and found the following which I had missed earlier. This is on the second page of the Will following the bequest to daughter Rebecca of two feather beds with associated trimmings:- Item I give unto my Grandson John Lanyon the sonne of John Lanyon of Morva ........CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 12, 2015 5:30:39 GMT -5
Gandolf - a small spanner seems to have found its way into the works here! I decided to spend a little time on the potential early part of this Ellis family and found the following:- Charles Ellys and Maria Tredinham married 27th April 1607 at St Ewe (St Ewe Parish Register) 7th February 1607 was baptised Hughe ye sonne of Charles Ellis (Madron Parish Register) 26th February 1607 was buryed Hughe the sonne of Charles Ellis (Madron Parish Register) 2nd March 1607 was buried Marye the wife of Charles Ellys (Madron Parish Register) It seems that Charles Ellis must have had yet another marriage!! And I now believe the name of that second wife was Catherine. In Canon Taylor's transcript of St Just registers (the one that was downloadable from archive.org) he shows two interesting burials in 1615:- Catherine wife of Christopher Ellis buried 10th February 1615 Catherine daughter of Christopher Ellis buried 14th February 1615 I have had a careful check of the image of the original register for these records and it is my opinion that Canon Taylor 'got it wrong'. In my opinion the father's name is not Christopher but instead is CHARLES! Unfortunately there are several gaps in the baptisms recorded by Canon Taylor and more unfortunately the images for the early baptisms do not begin until 1630. Consequently I am unable to find a baptism for Catherine and I have also not yet been able to find a record of that second marriage. CT CT
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Post by gandolf on Dec 12, 2015 7:57:02 GMT -5
Bravo Sir! That will teach me not to read every line in a will and simply skim it for the info I was looking for. So that confirms the first part of my theorising. Hopefully the rest will also stand up to further scrutiny.
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Post by gandolf on Dec 12, 2015 9:09:17 GMT -5
Humph, to misquote Lady Bracknell (per Oscar Wilde): To lose one wife may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness. While you have thrown a spanner into the works CT, it is indeed only a fairly small one as it doesn't significantly change the main details in relation to the connection between the Ellis and Lanyon families. I had only gone looking for the first marriage because I had seen hints in other people's research suggesting confusion over whether Charles Ellis' wife was called Mary or Alice. Having found the first marriage and children consistent with that, I had left it somewhat incomplete as it was not massively relevant to what I was trying to sort out with Mary Ellis, daughter of Alice. I haven't got a copy of this register transcript, nor can I find it on the web at the moment so will accept your learned opinion on Canon Taylor being wrong. Somewhat curiously given the data now known, it seems that the family of Charles Ellis was not sufficiently up the social scale to qualify for recording in the Visitations. Or if it was higher up socially, I cannot turn it up and as a result I doubt the family could have been seated in in Cornwall or Devon. Not only is Charles on occasion called Gent, suggesting a position of note, he seems to have successfully married women connected to minor landed gentry families - not once but at least twice and perhaps even three times. Charles' first wife Mary Tredenham was apparently from a landed family, the Tredenhams of Tregonan (which is about a mile south of St. Ewe, hence explaining the marriage location). From a quick look at the tree, I suspect she is contemporary with (and possibly a sibling to) the children of Thomas Tredinham & wife Sibbell Tresteane. Charles' third wife Alse (Alice) Penwarne was likely also connected to a landed family, the Penwarnes of Penwarne - albeit possibly through a junior line. While Alse seems to be contemporary with the children of Richard Penwarne and wife Jane Trencreeke (as shown in Vivian's), and could be an undocumented sibling, my instinct at the moment is leaning toward her being the daughter of Richard's younger brother John. So it wouldn't surprise me that if we ever determine the family name of Charles' second wife, that it will turn out to also be a minor landed gentry family. Just to clear up potential confusion from later visitors, the dates relating to Charles' first marriage are actually self-consistent when you remember that the calender year ended on Lady Day in March at the time. Using the modern double dating the dates are: - Charles Ellys and Maria Tredinham married 27th April 1607 at St Ewe (St Ewe Parish Register)
- 7th February 1607/08 was baptised Hughe ye sonne of Charles Ellis (Madron Parish Register)
- 26th February 1607/08 was buryed Hughe the sonne of Charles Ellis (Madron Parish Register)
- 2nd March 1607/08 was buried Marye the wife of Charles Ellys (Madron Parish Register)
In other words, Hugh was born roughly nine months after his parents married.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 12, 2015 13:53:34 GMT -5
No, the spanner does not influence the later connections but I wonder if it does cause some doubt to be cast over thoughts that Charles Ellis was from Devon?
In my opinion he was more likely to have been a West Penwith man especially considering the fact that immediately after his marriage to Marie Tredinham he can be found at Madron and then within five years at St Just.
CT
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