Hannah Casley death conundrum.

[pollyq]

I'm having a problem resolving the records that surround John Casley and Hannah Mathews who marry in St Just 15 Aug 1730.

According to the burial records Hannah Casley was buried in 1740;


Record No: 2450979

St Just in Penwith - 7 Jun 1740 - Hannah Casely - Wife of John Casely (Verified with Familysearch register images)


The baptisms of their children (all St Just) seem straight forward enough to start off with;

11 Jun 1731 - Jane d. John and Hannah Casly (BTs)
3 May 1733 - John s. Jno Casily (BTs)
28 Mar 1735 - William s. John Casely
27 May 1737 - George s. John Casely
8 Jun 1739 - Christopher s. John Casely

Then there are two baptisms supposedly after Hannah's death and burial.

4 Nov 1742 - Jane d. John Casley (BTs also include mother's name as Ann)
2 Mar 1743 - Samuel s. John Casley


Looking at the original images on Familysearch, Jane's looks o.k, but Samuel's baptism looks to have been added as it's squeezed in between two normally spaced baptisms.

Looking at the burial records for Casleys in St Just at this time also confuses things.


25 Jan 1736 - Ann Casely, daughter of John Casely (Don't know who this is, could be Jane bap. 1731?)
28 Nov 1743 - Christopher Casely, son of John and Hannah Casely
15 Apr 1744 - Samuel Caseley, son of John and Ann Caseley

The obvious solution is that there is another John Casley married to Ann who baptise two children in St Just, one of which dies and is buried in St Just. However, I can't find a marriage to support this nor a death for Ann Casley (the wife/mother)

Does anybody have any ideas please?

EDIT; I should also have added that I'm aware of the possibility that John Casley remarried, but finding a marriage for him and death for an Ann is still the crux of the problem.

[white]

Jan 16, 2014 14:58:23 GMT -5 pollyq said:

I'm having a problem resolving the records that surround John Casley and Hannah Mathews who marry in St Just 15 Aug 1730.

According to the burial records Hannah Casley was buried in 1740;


Record No: 2450979

St Just in Penwith - 7 Jun 1740 - Hannah Casely - Wife of John Casely (Verified with Familysearch register images)


The baptisms of their children (all St Just) seem straight forward enough to start off with;

11 Jun 1731 - Jane d. John and Hannah Casly (BTs)
3 May 1733 - John s. Jno Casily (BTs)
28 Mar 1735 - William s. John Casely
27 May 1737 - George s. John Casely
8 Jun 1739 - Christopher s. John Casely

Then there are two baptisms supposedly after Hannah's death and burial.

4 Nov 1742 - Jane d. John Casley (BTs also include mother's name as Ann)
2 Mar 1743 - Samuel s. John Casley


Looking at the original images on Familysearch, Jane's looks o.k, but Samuel's baptism looks to have been added as it's squeezed in between two normally spaced baptisms.

Looking at the burial records for Casleys in St Just at this time also confuses things.


25 Jan 1736 - Ann Casely, daughter of John Casely (Don't know who this is, could be Jane bap. 1731?)
28 Nov 1743 - Christopher Casely, son of John and Hannah Casely
15 Apr 1744 - Samuel Caseley, son of John and Ann Caseley

The obvious solution is that there is another John Casley married to Ann who baptise two children in St Just, one of which dies and is buried in St Just. However, I can't find a marriage to support this nor a death for Ann Casley (the wife/mother)

Does anybody have any ideas please?

EDIT; I should also have added that I'm aware of the possibility that John Casley remarried, but finding a marriage for him and death for an Ann is still the crux of the problem.

[Cornish Terrier]

It might be worth checking Isles of Scilly for the missing Casley marriage.

I am not sure exactly what has been transcribed for IOS and I know some of those registers can be difficult to follow but it is very possible that you might find the Casleys there.

CT

[pollyq]

Hi Cornish Terrier, thanks for the suggestion as I hadn't thought to look on the Isles of Scilly. I did find transcriptions for marriages for the appropriate time period but nothing for a John Casley.

I think the most likely scenario is that John Casley remarried to an Ann after Hannah's death. I'll just have to be patient and wait for the evidence to find me, as I just can't find a thing to support my theory.

I'll update this thread if I find anything.

[Cornish Terrier]

I have no answer at the moment but it does look probable that the same John Casley is involved. I think that adding the second marriage, along with the two children, is probably the reasonable thing to do.
Sooner or later some other evidence, hopefully a marriage record, will be found but in the meantime try to find a possible burial for Ann and track the additional children for a couple of generations to see what might turn up.
In case you have not already done so it would be worth some time to see if there might be any Wills available that might be of some help.

CT

[allan1962]

Looking through my Casley records all except the actual Baptism Register seems to confirm that Ann was Jane's mother. Not very helpful I'm afraid.

The St. Just 1734-1783 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials Register does not include Ann as the mother of Jane. The entry just states "Jane the daughter of John Casley 4th November 1742".

In "St Just Register of Baptisms 1612-1812 & Burials 1599-1711 Canon T Taylor.pdf" which used to be available on the internet, the entry for Jane in 1742 is "Nov. 4 Jane, d. John Casley" & someone unknown has added "& Ann" in red ink.

The baptism in findmypast, source Cornwall FHS, states "Mother's forenames: Ann".

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" in FamilySearch also states that the Mother's Name was Ann.

Good luck in your searches,
Allan.

[Cornish Terrier]

In "St Just Register of Baptisms 1612-1812 & Burials 1599-1711 Canon T Taylor.pdf" which used to be available on the internet, the entry for Jane in 1742 is "Nov. 4 Jane, d. John Casley" & someone unknown has added "& Ann" in red ink.

There are many handwritten notes in this document - some blue or black but mostly red. I would suggest that these may have been made by Henry D Moyle who donated the book to the Genealogical Society of the LDS in 1952. Most of the notes and additions begin from about 1679 and I think are mostly the work of one person. I would certainly not be reliant on the accuracy of these notes and additions although it is possible many of them might be correct.

The baptism in findmypast, source Cornwall FHS, states "Mother's forenames: Ann".

This is another collection of transcribed records and as the mother's name does not appear in the Parish Register it would seem likely that the transcribed records were taken from the above transcript by Canon Taylor. Once again it cannot be quoted as a primary or reliable source.

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" in FamilySearch also states that the Mother's Name was Ann.

Sometimes I really do dislike this mob! If you look at the details for the entry you will find information pertaining to the supposed sources. In this case you will find the following:-

Batch P020311
Film 0226217
Film 0226218
Film 962681

Batch P020311 is the original batch number from the IGI with records 'supposedly' transcribed from the original registers. (I now have my doubts)

The three Film Numbers are most interesting and, I think, tell a sorry tale about the state of FamilySearch as opposed to the old IGI!

Taking these Film Numbers and going to the Catalog provides the following details about each Film:-

Film 0226217 - Baptisms, burials, 1784-1812 (includes indexes); Baptisms, 1813-1847.
Film 0226218 - Baptisms, 1847-1867 (includes index), 1780-1960.

I should hardly reap any confidence from that little lot!!! The earliest details on these films do not begin until 38 years AFTER the event in question!! In fact the two films that would contain the 1742 entry are 0226216 and 1596685.

Film - 962681 - this one is actually the St Just Book mentioned above and transcribed by Canon Taylor. In fact for anyone who has a copy of the file downloaded from Archive.org you can go to page 8 of the PDF and find a stamp at the bottom of the page showing that very same Catalog Number 962681!

But there is one ray of hope!

If you log into the OPC site and search for the baptism of Jane Casley 1742 you will find two entries. One provides only the father's name and is transcribed from the original Parish Register. The second entry provides the mother's name as well and has been transcribed by Bob Bolitho from the Bishops Transcripts.

Finally we have a source that shows some sort of reliability!

CT

[pollyq]

Hi there, thank you for the input, and yes it was the Cornwall OPC's Bishops Transcripts baptism entry that I was going on for Ann being mother of Jane.

Unfortunately, I've not found a burial for an Ann Casley yet, so I can't really add anything constructive at this point.

I do intend to look for John's cousins at some point, which will probably complicate matters.

I'll update if I find anything