And DNA testing is also something that attacks the hip pocket!
I have just been doing a little work on the Tregunna family and found something of more than passing interest. Amongst the children of Simon and Grace Tregunna was son Peter who was baptised in 1819 at St Anthony in Roseland. In 1842 at St Clement this Peter Tregunna married one Elizabeth Snell who just happens to have been the sister of the Mary Snell who married Simon Tregunna Trewhela in 1829!
That does not exactly establish what we are looking for but I do think that it is suggestive.
Re DNA: I do agree about the hip pocket, but at about $100, one of the lesser attacks! I haven't felt the need to go that route, but it's another tool to dig into the murky past.
In my trawl I did note the Peter Tregunna - Elizabeth Snell connection, and it raised an eyebrow!
There is also a Peter Tregunna who married Jane Trewhela in 1803 in Kenwyn. Have you worked out how this couple fit into the picture?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 27, 2013 7:34:18 GMT -5
There is also a Peter Tregunna who married Jane Trewhela in 1803 in Kenwyn. Have you worked out how this couple fit into the picture?
As Simon and Grace Tregunna named a son Peter my thought is that the husband of Jane Trewhela is probably related somehow, possibly a brother to Simon. The dilemma is that no matter how I search I have not been able to come up with a baptism for him. My last attempt was to see if perhaps he might have been an illegimate son of Ann Cornish who married the elder Simon Tregunna in 1778.
Jane Trewhela was baptised 'Jane daughter of William and Catherine Trewheeler' 30th May 1784 at Kenwyn. This is part of the messy bit of this branch of the family. William Trewhella (sic.) was married three times - 1. Elizabeth Tremellen 1753 Kenwyn 2. Elizabeth James 1773 Kenwyn 3. Catherine Truscott 1781 Kenwyn.
Amongst the children from the first marriages was son James baptised at Kenwyn in 1769. James married Catherine Brown at Kenwyn in 1794 and had three children before his demise in 1804. As a widow Catherine then produced Simon Tregunna Trewhela.
So the wife of Peter Tregunna was a half-sister to the deceased husband of Simon Tregunna Trewhela's mother!
BTW - I found a record of a Removal Order involving the Parishes of Probus and Kenwyn. This order involves the removal of Peter Tregunna, his wife Jennifer and daughter Elizabeth from Probus to be settled at Kenwyn. It is dated 3rd March 1808 just about five weeks prior to the death of Peter Tregunna. He was buried at Kenwyn 10th April 1808. (This document can be found in the OPC database under 'Extra Searches - Parish Settlements' - just enter Tregunna as the surname.)
After Peter died Jane/Jennifer married Samuel Truran/Truan at Kenwyn in 1810 and I have wondered for years if perhaps this might be the link to a mysterious George Treweler of St Agnes who used Truran as a second forename for a couple of his children. I have George's marriage and I have him being 'done' for passing counterfeit coin. He appears in the 1851 Census but his entire family disappears before 1861 to parts unknown.
Returning to Samuel and Jane Truran - their first daughter was Jane who married James Emmett at St Anthony in Roseland in 1839. Although they had more children I currently only have one son in my database - James Trewhela Emmett!
I am about out of ideas for tonight but will try and take another look at this tomorrow.
I am back!!! Being related to (excuse the term) a bastard is starting to warm on me!!! I found the same link for Peter Tregunna as well and was going to investigate further. On the birth certificate from Genealogy Uk it just has the mother listed as Cathrine. How do we know that was Cathrine Brown? He ended up being cared for by Catherine Trewhella didnt he? Could it be that she had a fling with Simon Tregunna and that is why she isnt on the birth certificate? All supposition anyway but I will keep digging and if you want to help I won't say no cause I still have two other familys to research to keep everyone happy. I must say though that you guys have given me quite a bug for this!!!! Thankyou as a better gift I have never received!!!
Here is the american leg for you that is ok to put on here. I will message the rest and you can keep them on file. Arthur Reginald Trewhela (1905-1968) married Antoinette Domedion (1908- deceased). They had six boys and a girl. After that Arthur Reginald went on to have one more child. Corrinne Trewhela (1941), Raymond Trewhela (1930),Arthur (1939-2003),Micheal (1936-deceased), Ronald (1933-2005), Richard P (1931-2005), Reginald (1930-deceased). After all these children it is said that Arthur Reginald left Antoinette for another woman. THis liason produced Cindy Trewhela a person I have yet to find any details on. I have recently spoken to two of Micheals boys and one has promised to look into this for me and I hope to get full list of kids off of them. THey have a whole bunch of kids. One by himself has 11.!!! I will let you know when I get this info!!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 27, 2013 12:13:19 GMT -5
How do we know that was Cathrine Brown? He ended up being cared for by Catherine Trewhella didnt he?
What you are calling a 'birth certificate' is actually the baptism record from the Parish Register. There were no 'birth certificates' until Civil Registration commenced in 1837.
Now - the baptismal record for Simon actually reads 'Simon Tregunna base son of Catherine Trewhela'. The way it is entered caused me quite a headache many years back when I was trying to sort this family out. In the end the only conclusion I could arrive at was that Catherine must have been the widow of James Trewhela who had died in 1804. Catherine's maiden name was Catherine Brown.
Our question is still with the identity of the father of Simon Trewhela. Was it Simon Tregunna as looks likely and if so then was it the elder or the younger Simon Tregunna? So far I have not been able to find any Bastardy Papers or any other record that might tell us who Simon's father was but there are a couple of things to think about. 1. Simon Trewhela was born in 1806 (and we are supposing that Simon Tregunna was the father) 2. Simon Tregunna married Grace May in 1807 (this was the younger Simon Tregunna son of Simon and Ann) 3. Catherine Trewhela (nee Brown) did not die until 1837
So, did Catherine have a 'fling' with young Simon Tregunna and he then married Grace May? Or was it Simon's father who was responsible for Simon Trewhela? The elder Simon died in 1822 at the age of 71 so he would have been about 55 when Simon Trewhela was born and it looks like his wife died in 1826 at the age of 83. Simon and Ann Tregunna appear to have had only two children which supports Ann being an older woman. She would have been about 34 or 35 when she married and around 40 when the second child was born so it would have been unlikely that she would have had many, if any, more children. Although the younger Simon Tregunna could have had 'a fling' with Catherine Trewhela and then gone off to marry someone else but there is certainly a good case for the elder Simon being the father of Simon Trewhela.
It will be difficult to know for sure unless we can find some documentation somewhere.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 27, 2013 12:20:55 GMT -5
I have recently spoken to two of Micheals boys and one has promised to look into this for me and I hope to get full list of kids off of them. THey have a whole bunch of kids. One by himself has 11.!!! I will let you know when I get this info!!
I think you will find that it is Matthew John Trewhella who has the large family. He is a Pastor and I think founded the Ministries of the Pre-born. If you Google 'Matt Trewhella' or 'Matthew Trewhella' you will probably find lots of articles about him.
I think the member of this family that I met was Jeffery Craig who is the youngest son of Michael. I really need to find all my old notes from my trip to the US and see if there is anything that I have not added to my database.
Will try and catch up on these families in a couple of days. We have a Very High fire danger rating tomorrow and the weather is starting to get ominous so there is a chance we will start to get busy very soon.
THanks for clearing that up about the baptism record. I know these things in my head but they dont get to paper. I spoke to Jeffrey Craig too. I was actually looking for another Jeffrey but got him. Three of Arthur Reginald's kids who have no contact with each other all had sons and called them Jeffrey!!! Go figure!! The thing is there is no Jeffrey in their past to warrant this!!! Your right about Matthew. He was extremely forth coming and despite a clash in beliefs he was great to talk to and we will see if he follows up. I think if we had to make assumptions to follow a line of enquiry on Catherin Trewhela I would have thought the older Simon Tregunna would have been responsible. Based on age I dont think the younger would have had contact or will to want a relationship of that sort with Catherine. I am going to look more into the ages and see if they are compatible with that theory. Thanks again and stay safe!!!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 28, 2013 11:49:15 GMT -5
Based on age I dont think the younger would have had contact or will to want a relationship of that sort with Catherine.
From what I have seen in more than 30 years of genealogy you may end up confused, frustrated and none the wiser if you follow that path. I have seen instances of a male aged around 20 fathering a child with a woman in her 40s! And plenty of examples of young men marrying woman 8, 10 or more years older than themselves.
Simon Tregunna the elder was born around 1752 and his son Simon in 1782. Catherine Brown was baptised (presumably born) in 1774 so she was about 22 years younger than the elder Simon and only 8 years older than his son. And young Simon would have been about 24 when Simon Trewhela was born.
I think we need some other evidence to help solve this problem.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 30, 2013 3:29:08 GMT -5
It has been a busy week and I have to be out again at 0600hrs tomorrow morning for a fuel-reduction burn followed by burnover drills and a pre-fire season meeting tomorrow but I have had a few minutes to take another look at some of the Tregunna family.
I had been working on the hypothesis that Peter Tregunna and Simon Tregunna might have been brothers but could find no records at all that might support that possibility. In actual fact there appears to be just one Peter Tregunna baptism anywhere near the right time so I decided to take a closer look at that family.
Peter was baptised at St Austell in 1781 to Barnett and Jenepher Tregonna so at the moment there seems to be no close connection to Simon Tregunna. But Peter would have been about 22 in 1803 for the marriage to Jane Trewhela.
Barnett Tregunna was a sojourner and in 1776 he was 'of St Austell' when he married Jane Truscott at St Stephen in Brannel. There were three children baptised at St Austell before an apparent move to Veryan where a further six children were baptised. To try and make sure I covered all possibilities I used only the first initial (B) of the christian name and the first two letters (TR) of the surname when searching for possible marriages. From 1750 to 1800 there is only one possible marriage which means that all children belong to the same family. (The reason I searched this way was because the name changed from Barnet to Bernard)
My one concern is that Peter Tregunna had just three children - Elizabeth 1803-1804, William 1805-1806 and Eliza/Elizabeth who was born in 1807 - but none were named for either of his parents. He did have an elder sister named Elizabeth and William was the name of Jane Trewhela's father but it is possible that Peter simply did not follow any sort of naming convention. It is also unfortunate that when he died in 1808 Peter's age was not recorded.
However, it does look now like it may have been pure coincidence that Peter Tregunna married Jane Trewhela whose sister-in-law appears to have had a 'fling' with Simon Tregunna.
Or was it 'coincidence'? Simon Tregunna senior was buried at Veryan in 1822 age 71 and so would have been born 'about' 1751. Barnet/Bernard/Barnard Tregunna was buried at Veryan in 1825 age 70 and so would have been born 'about' 1755.
I can find no baptism for either of these but their approximate birth years offer the possibility that they could have been brothers in which case Peter and the younger Simon would have been first cousins. Simon and Barnet both ended up at Veryan so perhaps that is where they were born.
Oops! - that is not quite correct! Bernard Tregunna was baptised at Veryan 7th June 1755 son of Peter and Elizabeth. I have not been able to find a marriage for Peter and Elizabeth but the earliest child I can find was son Peter who was baptised at Cornelly in 1747.
I will try and look more at this problem as the time permits.
Thankyou for being so patient with me I have two kids with aspergers (sorry on the ASD spectrum now) and I had a psycholigist trying to tell me how my money was going to be spent. I have looked at Simon time and time again and there doesnt seem to be anyway to prove anything. So I have decided to write a note with his chart to say that this was an assumption and we arent able to get any more info. I am now trying to go back and sort everyone out correctly to get everyone right. I am still doing Lindon and Bullamore as well so one day I will finish. If you like I am happy to send the tree thus far to you. Let me know. BTW Merry Christmas to whoever should read this!!!!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 19, 2013 0:51:23 GMT -5
Simon is a problem and probably will be for some time to come but one day, hopefully, we will find something that will help provide the right answer. It does seem apparent that his father was Simon Tregunna so a paternal line can probably be established but without proof of which Simon, father or son, we cannot determine his ancestry through the maternal Tregunna grandmother. (Hope that makes sense! ) A note in your files about the confusion is the right way to go and it is there as a reminder that more information is required.
I still have a lot of work to do on the descendants of Simon Trewhela but I am not sure when that will be done. Tomorrow has been declared a Total Fire Ban in my area and possible thunderstorms are forecast which could trigger lightning strikes. There is every chance I will be busy for the foreseeable future but I will try to keep up with things as time permits.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 20, 2013 4:34:22 GMT -5
Well, you know what it's like then! Sat around the fire station all day today and had no turnouts. There were a couple of fires in other districts but nothing that was going to escalate to the point of calling us so it was a quiet day. Some work on our new quickfill trailer was done but I just watched while the other guys did the decorations! Interesting watching others measure, place, fit and then trim decals for half a day!
Around the 40s again tomorrow but no total fire ban. I will spend some time at the fire station again in case something gets started so probably not much genealogy will be done again.