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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 16, 2013 0:47:58 GMT -5
Gotta keep you on your toes! Re death/burial for Charlotte Clifton - I don't have any Burial records for Camborne between 1837 and 1889 so all I have to refer to would be FreeBMD. In 1869 it should give her age so if it is a close match for the baptism of Charlotte then you can cross-check it by finding her in the 1861 Census. If you can find her there then you need to check 1871 just to make sure there wasn't another Charlotte of about the same age. Also - if you can find Charlotte in 1861 then also try 1851 and take a note of people she might have been living with. She could be living on her own but if any relatives were in the household it would help confirm her identity. If you find her in 1861 but not in 1871 then the 1869 death is probably her. CT
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Post by snap17 on Sept 16, 2013 7:09:53 GMT -5
Mary Bennetts Parents I have got 1/ Mary Bennetts Bp 14/3/1756 D/O William Bennetts & Grace Vivian M:24/2/1741 that would make Mary 39 when she married William 27/1/1781 2/ Richard Bennetts & Ann Row M: 6/1/1756 their Daughter Mary BP 14 /3/1762 That would make Mary 19 when she married William ? regards Snap17
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Post by snap17 on Sept 16, 2013 16:16:17 GMT -5
HI TC Charlotte came up in 1851 census Living with her widow sister Mary both fruit sellers and sister Jenefer ore dresser very hard to read 1851 Camborne Sive Or Five St ?? Mary looks like Grifeths Head Widow age 60 fruit seller Jenifier sister ore dresser Age50 unm Charlotte Sister age 48 unm fruit seller only record for census. and now we have Mary Marriege (Grifeths ?)
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Post by snap17 on Sept 16, 2013 20:26:21 GMT -5
HI TC I have finished Thomas James & Ann Bennetts or as much as i can I had started this before i got your message can i email it to you ? I will start William Clifton & Mary Bennetts Next let me know about the 2 above messages thank you for being so patient regards Snapp17
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 16, 2013 21:37:12 GMT -5
Okay - that Census record now proves that there was an error in the register when Charlotte was baptised. Her mother was incorrectly recorded as Anne as I suspect but should have been Mary. The address in the 1851 Census is FORE STREET. John Griffiths, mariner, and Mary Clifton, spinster, both of Penryn, were married at St Gluvias 20th December 1831 with Ann Shaffer and Wm Clifton as witnesses. (You can find this one on the OPC site.) I think you have got yourself mixed up with the marriage date of the parents here! If Mary was baptised in 1756 and married in 1781 then should only have been age 25! Mary Clifton of Huel Kitty age 78 was buried at Camborne 19th June 1833. That gives a birth year of about 1755 or 1756 which is a good match but you need to make sure there are no other possibilities. Right then - it seems it is just the 1813-1837 marriages for Camborne that are not on the OPC site yet. There are a few marriages in that time so I will try and get those details to you later on. CT
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Post by snap17 on Sept 18, 2013 1:13:01 GMT -5
This is what i have on William Clifton BP 20.11.1757 buried 15.12.1826 age 70 Hue kitty // M; Mary Bennetts Bp14.3.1756 buried. 19.6.1833 age78 Hue Kitty S/O Richard Clifton & Grace Smith M; 8.9.1826 // D/O William Bennetts & Grace Vivian M:24.2.1741
Children: Richard Clifton Bp: 22.4.1781 William Clifton Bp: 24.6 1783 M;Ann Tabb Grace " " Bp: 30.4.1786 M;21.12.1811 Matthew Laity Bp: 21.1.1776 miner (6 children) S/OMatthew Laity & Mary Row witness Mary Richards 7 John Williams Mary " " Bp: 19.4.1789 M;John Griffiths 20/12/1831 St Gluvias from Penyn Mariner ( No Children Fond Fruit seller after husband died) Witness Ann Shaffer & William Clifton
Henry " " Bp: 27.2.1791 No marriage D;30.11.1830 Condurrow
Ann " " Bp: 18.8.1793 M; Thomas James 5/1/1818 Camborne Banns ( 7 Children)
Jenefer " " Bp: 10.4.1796 never married fruit seller Charlotte " " Bp 21.7.1799 Never Married ore dresser D: july 1869 Have to find some Deaths and Check for 2nd Marriages Just checking this is right and i think i know were Clifton come from more work needed before i Devulge SO DON'T YELL AT ME AND SAY THATS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY :-) what next ?? regards Snapp17
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Post by snap17 on Sept 18, 2013 7:18:54 GMT -5
HI TC 1/ I have been looking for Deaths of Mary Griffiths Nee Clifton And Jenefer Clifton no luck Both were alive 1851 census ?? 2/ If a married woman re marries after the death of husband did they use Maid name or married name ?? 3/ Burial Richard Clifton 10/7/1840 Bp 22.4.1781 No Marriage fond 4/ Ann tabb Bp 20 sep 1789 D/O John Tabb & Ann Little M:1.1.1771 Ewe St Ann Tabb & William Clifton Children I have 7 children that could be Wiliam and Ann But I CANNOT FIND MARRIAGE of ANN TAB & WILLIAM CLIFTON OR AM I WRONG AGAIN regards Lyn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 19, 2013 1:58:08 GMT -5
Hi Lyn - here are a few answers that might help. As stated earlier I don't have burials for Camborne between 1837 and 1889 so you would have to rely on FreeBMD. Usually she would marry under her previous married name but I have seen instances where the maiden name was used although very rarely. One huge problem in the registers with people remarrying is that they were not always recorded as widowed. I have seen instances where someone was widowed but was recorded as 'bachelor' when they married again. I have not checked for a burial so you may be right on that one. BUT - Richard Clifton was married TWICE! He first married Clarinda Warren at Camborne 7th December 1807 and had three children - Elizabeth (1808), Mary Anne (1809) and William (1810). Clarinda wife of Richard Warren age 30 was buried at Camborne 17th April 1813. Richard then married Jane Bosanko at Camborne 5th July 1813. There were a further five children, including a daughter Clarinda, from this second marriage and you should be able to find them all on the OPC site. I know nothing of the origins of Ann Tabb as yet but I would be cautious about the St Ewe connection given it is some distance away from Camborne and actually bordering with St Austell. William Clifton and Ann Tabb were married at Camborne 9th May 1814. (From the Devon and Cornwall Record Society Transcript (Tapley-Soper Transcript) of Camborne Parish Registers available online) And then this note from the family of William and Mary Clifton:- Henry Clifton married Mary White at Camborne 3rd July 1815 and had six children which should all be found on the OPC site. After Henry died his widow Mary remarried to John Waters 28th September 1834 at Camborne. John Waters was also widowed at the time but I have not yet found his previous marriage. Where you have to be careful is that there was another Henry Clifton who married at Gwinear. This Henry was the son of John Clifton and Elizabeth Bennetts who married at Camborne 29th August 1784. John was a brother to William Clifton. This Henry married Grace Thomas at Gwinear 24th September 1815. There were at least three children but I have not recorded them as yet. CT
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Post by snap17 on Sept 19, 2013 6:00:48 GMT -5
HI TC Thank you for all you help I have Quit a bit here to log into my family tree and tied up.. so I will leave you in peace for a FEW DAYS or WEEKS :-) Thank You SO MUCH great Site i would never have got this far with out your help as i have only research hear in Australia and did not Know were to start in Cornwall or how with out Certificates. still have JAMES, VEAL, QUICK,RICHARDS,SINCOCK to finish have bits and pce of them that i have picked up along the way get them sort out and then i will get back to them when i finish Clifton & James Regards Lyn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 19, 2013 8:20:46 GMT -5
Any time you are ready or have a query we'll still be here. CT
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Post by donne on Sept 21, 2013 4:27:24 GMT -5
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Post by snap17 on Sept 22, 2013 0:57:54 GMT -5
Hi Tc I'm not sure if i have the right family here. William bennetts B:abt 1830 Married Charlotte Clifton James Bp 4/8/1852 they M: 31/10/1852
Census 1871 St Agnes Mount Hawke William Benetts head age 36 tin miner (b:1835) ? Charlotte Wife age 35 (B; 1836)? Bp 4/8/1852 Mary age 7 clara age 6 annie age 4 Lydia age 2 Henry age 9Mth 1881 Census as above + John age 6 James age 3 then i fond Sydney Bp 25/12/1880 Mount Hawke parents William & Charlotte Bennetts Cannot find any birth on OPC Just Checking i have rigt Family before i go hunting for the birth dates. Burials William Benetts 10/12/1907 age 62 Mount Hawke Short Cross Cemetery """ Charlotte "" 21.12.1916 age 80 " " " " " 2nd ? William Bennetts ? Parents & birth ( William Marriage States Grooms father Henry (Dec) Marriage all so states william age22 Charlotte 21)
Marriage Henry Bennetts & Mary Olive Widow 2/8/1823 at Crowan ?? but can not find birth of william bennetts Snap17
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 24, 2013 1:26:54 GMT -5
Sorry I have been a bit slow responding to this one but I have been a bit busy of late. Looks like it is time for another lesson. First thing you need to do here is to 'get the blinkers off' and expand your vision. Not everything is 'cut and dried' or 'black and white' in genealogy so you have to be able to look at the information in front of you and decipher what you see. The marriage information looks like a reasonable match for Charlotte Clifton James but there are discrepancies but when you look at the Census information the very first thing that is noticeable is that there is a conflict with ages! Start with the marriage record - because the bride is recorded as 'Charlotte James' and not Charlotte Clifton James you should think about checking for other possible girls of that name. Even if a name seems unusual there is always the possibility that there may be another of the same name and born close to the same time. If you find another then you will need to try to eliminate one or the other. The other thing to look at is the names of the Witnesses to the marriage. Don't worry too much about David Duckham because he was the Parish Clerk and was witness to a high percentage of marriages at Camborne. John Marks is the one you need to check on and the first thing is to look at whether he was a witness to other marriages. You could check to see if he witnessed a number of marriages over a couple of years or you could check to see if any sisters of Charlotte James might have married a John Marks. The Census is the area where most discrepancies can be found. Check the 1871 Census again to see if there might be another couple named William and Charlotte Bennetts. (Remember that Bennetts can be found in many different forms such as Bennatts, Bennets, Bennats etc.) The marriage occurred in 1852 so check the 1851 Census to see where Charlotte was living. At the time of marriage she was 'of Fore Street' so perhaps she was also living there in 1851. Then, and most importantly, check 1861 which was the first Census after the marriage. In fact I don't understand why you would go to 1871 in the first place given the marriage was 18 years earlier! I refer back to my comments above about having the blinkers on or being tunnel-visioned - look at the information in the 1871 Census again and then think about the marriage and note the discrepancies. The ages are certainly incosistent but take particular note of the following:- In 1871 William and Charlotte Bennetts have a number of children but the eldest is just seven years old! This child was born about 1863 or 1864 which is at the very least 11 years after the marriage! Surely that should start the alarm bells ringing!!! Were there other children between 1852 and 1863 who all died?? Were there other children between 1852 and 1863 who might be living elsewhere, perhaps with relatives?? OR DO YOU HAVE THE WRONG FAMILY RIGHT FROM THE VERY START? ? Go back to the 1861 Census and see what you find before you waste a lot more of your time ...... and perhaps a bit of mine. And also it might be a good idea to check FreeBMD and/or the OPC site to see if perhaps there might be another marriage in the few years before 1864 that might account for the 1871 entry. OPC site - I have already mentioned that not everything is yet transcribed for the OPC site. If you are looking for records for a particular Parish then there is a 'Coverage' facility on the OPC Homepage that will tell you what is available for each Parish. Once you have had a good look at all of this again come back to me and let me know what you have found and then we can see which direction to take. CT
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Post by snap17 on Sept 24, 2013 22:25:42 GMT -5
Hi Tc Marriage Charlotte James And William Bennetts M:31.10.1852 Witnesses John Duckham & John Marks is on a lot of James Marriages example Thomas Edwards & Philippa James 28.May.1853 (Charlotte Sister) there is only one other M; Charlotte James & Mathew Curnow Gulval M:1850 Bride father Henry that rules that out Cannot find any thing in 1861 Census used Charlotte Bennetts nothing ?? Snapp17
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 25, 2013 0:08:54 GMT -5
Here are two quotes from my last message:- Think about that while you look at what I have been able to find in a very short time:- 1861 Census Mount Hawke, St Agnes William BENNETT, head, mar, 26, copper miner, St Agnes Charlote do., wife, mar, 25, St Agnes Thomas do., son, 2, St Agnes William do., son, 11mths, St Agnes FreeBMD - Marriages December Qtr 1858 BENNETT William Truro 5c 317 SAMPSON Charlotte Truro 5c 317 THOMAS Richard Truro 5c 317 WILLIAMS Elizabeth Ann Truro 5c 317 These marriages cannot be found in the OPC records so they may have occurred in the Registry Office or in one of the Non-conformist Chapels. It is also possible that the records are not yet available to the OPC or FamilySearch for transcription. FreeBMD does not necessarily show the search results in the order of marriage so from the above you have to assume that William Bennett might have married either Charlotte Sampson or Elizabeth Ann Williams. Rather than try to search the Census for Richard Thomas I first tried to determine if their might have been any children to Richard Thomas so that I could work out which of the girls he married. Fortunately Richard and Elizabeth Ann Thomas began baptising children at Chasewater (near St Agnes) in 1859. So we now know that William BENNETT married Charlotte SAMPSON in the Truro Registration District in late 1858. (St Agnes is in the Truro R.D.) And this information gives us the link to the 1861 and 1871 Census information. I rest my case! But now you are left wondering ........................ Consider the following possibilities:- 1. Either William Bennetts or his wife Charlotte died sometime between their marriage in 1852 and the 1861 Census. 2. Sometime between 1852 and 1861 William and Charlotte, perhaps with children, emigrated to another Country. CT
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