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Post by sue on Nov 27, 2012 13:17:55 GMT -5
I too have been looking at old newspapers recently...... I am trying to attribute the 9 December 1851 Penzance Registry Office marriage reported in the West Briton of Thomas Curnow of Halsetown to Miss Elizabeth James of Penzance. The obvious candidate is 1828 son of Michael Renoden/Curnow & Sarah Roach, being at Halsetown 1851 unmarried, with siblings & mother. But he is still there unmarried in 1861/1871, eventually marrying Christian in 1874, and staying in the area till probable death 1897. There is a baptism 18 Apr 1852 St Ives of Elizabeth Jane to Thomas & Elizabeth of Halsetown, he miner, which I would infer is this couple.... and a burial 7 May 1852 St Ives age 3 mths. Then 1861 at Nancledra there is Thomas Curnow 32 tin miner born Towednack wife Elizabeth 29 born St Ives son William 4 born Towednack. If this is the same couple, that would probably then be Elizabeth James 29 July 1831 St Ives to Richard & Jane. I have found no baptism for son William born c1857; I cannot see this family after 1861 in England or U.S. I have most of the Thomas Curnows baptized 1827 – 1830 in this locality accounted for, except: 1 June 1828 Lelant parents Thomas Curnow & Grace Green – I don't have this chap post 1841
27 July 1828 Ludgvan parents Thomas Curnow & Jane Grenfell, 1851 at home unmarried Chylasson (Nancledra-ish)
I would have no problem with either giving Towednack as a birthplace, given they each had siblings baptized there, but my instinct is that this chap who married Elizabeth James & then probably appears at Nancledra 1861 is the son of Thos Curnow & Jane Grenfell. There are a couple of online trees I have seen that have Thomas son Thomas Curnow & Jane Grenfell buried at Moonta South Australia 18 April 1892, but they do not mention a wife - giving cause for the usual scepticism! I have had a look at the Moonta online burials, hoovered up the Curnows and looked for connections between them. Thomas Curnow buried 18 April 1892 age 63 is in the same grave as Emma Curnow, buried 13 November 1910 age 62. There is a Moonta burial of an Elizabeth Curnow 7 February 1867 age 33, but a little out on age to be Elizabeth James per above and thus 1st wife. It could count in favour of this 1892 Moonta burial being son of Thomas & Jane Grenfell that his 1st cousin John Roach Curnow & his wife are buried at Moonta; but then so is a John Curnow who married Elizabeth Jane Martin in Aus, who per his 1916 obituary (TROVE) was born St Ives, and with birth date c1839 I would think is son of John Curnow & Jane Hollow – not closely related. (Nothing found on Trove for deaths of Thomas Curnow 1892, Emma Curnow 1910.) And then again – looking only at the Moonta burial 1892 – this Thomas Curnow who died age 63 could be the other Thomas Curnow born 1828 that disappears to me: son of George & Bridget, who married Maria 19 October 1850 St Just, she is buried 1855, daughter Maria is with grandparents 1861 with no sign (to me) of father Thomas. Has anyone else perchance located these 3 particular Thomas Curnows of 1828 vintage, beyond the one sighting I have 1861 Nancledra? Sue P.S. Did I mention FS has a Thomas Curnow dying 28 July 1855 Bombay India, age 27 i.e. born c1828.....? (John Curnows 1824-1881 & 1827-1849 also die in India...)
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 28, 2012 3:57:55 GMT -5
Sue - might be a couple of days before I can look at this properly. I have to go and see the hand doctor tomorrow and get some repairs done! (Got a little scorched at the weekend ) CT
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Post by sue on Nov 28, 2012 6:27:08 GMT -5
Ah.... Good luck with that. Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 1, 2012 3:16:03 GMT -5
We do have a dilemma here. The 1892 burial could belong to either of the two mentioned above although if the age is accurate then the son of Thomas and Grace is slightly the more likely. Problem there is that we have lost him after 1841. Thomas Curnow, widower, married Emma Rowe at Moonta Mines 1st November 1868 - Emma was age 21 but Thomas said he was 33! I guess the cemetery records prove that he might have been bending the truth just a little when he married Emma! Our other little problem is that both candidates had a father named Thomas so determining who married Emma is still difficult. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 1, 2012 3:25:30 GMT -5
Elizabeth wife of Thomas Curnow died at Moonta 6th February 1867 age 33. Given the death was in February (and assuming her age is accurate) then sh must have been born in 1833.
It appears there were no children born to Thomas and Elizabeth in South Australia.
CT
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Post by sue on Dec 1, 2012 5:30:09 GMT -5
Thanks for that.
I think I may be stuffed as to which of the 2 Thomas Curnows married Elizabeth James, unless one day something comes to light about the other one.
Sue
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Post by myghaelangof on Dec 9, 2012 13:55:37 GMT -5
Sue, some co-incidental information from the 1851 census for Lelant: Henry JAMES age 35, and his wife Christian, live next door to Thomas and Grace CURNOW. May be worth reviewing Henry and see if he has any link to Miss Elizabeth JAMES? Albeit JAMES is a fairly common name It might take a marriage certificate to resolve this puzzle. Regards Mike
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Post by sue on Dec 9, 2012 15:24:23 GMT -5
Hi Mike Henry James & Christian at Lelant are in fact a little familiar to me, as if memory serves, 2 of their girls married into the Curnow descendants of “my” William Curnow & Elizabeth Bolitho. Now, one of the 1828 Thomas Curnows in contention for marrying Elizabeth James in 1851 was a gchild of William Curnow~Elizabeth Bolitho via their son Thomas 1802; contrasting with the other 1828 Thomas Curnow the son of Thomas Curnow~Grace Green a different Curnow line, 1851 next door to Henry James. I shall look more at Henry James' family; thanks for the suggestion! Sue
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Post by foxgrapes on Jul 3, 2014 21:16:31 GMT -5
Hi, Is it OK if I suggest another possible 1st wife for Thomas Curnow (of Thomas Curnow & Jane Grenfell). There is a marriage of a Thomas Curnow to an Elizabeth Davies on 1/7/1858 at Adelaide, South Australia. Brides father being Samuel Davies. This would make Thomas Jnrs immigration to South Aust between 1851 and 1861 (although I have been unable find him on the ships list). There was however, an Elizabeth Davies baptised at Crowan on 24/7/1839 to a Samuel & Elizabeth Davies. Also a migration of an Elizabeth Davies, 18, Servant of Cornwall on the 'Gilmore' arriving South Aust on the 3/7/1857. Unfortunately this would still make the Death Index of Elizabeth Curnow in Feb 1867 a few years out.
There are 2 curnow births (at Peachy Belt, South Aust) Elizabeth Harris Curnow Apr 1862 and Thomas Curnow May 1864 (both parents are names as Thomas Curnow and Elizabeth Davies.
I'm just a novice at all this I know, but any thoughts?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 3, 2014 22:03:22 GMT -5
According to my information that could not possibly work. My records show that Thomas (1827 s/o Thomas Curnow and Jane Grenfell) was married at the Penzance Registry Office 9th December 1851 to Elizabeth James. At least six children all born Cornwall to 1862 including a Thomas Charles born 1853 and died age 2 months.
I think the Thomas Curnow you are referring to with an unknown first wife is the man who married Emma Rowe at Moonta Mines in 1868.
CT
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Post by foxgrapes on Jul 4, 2014 12:51:29 GMT -5
OK thanks
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Post by vcairns on Nov 20, 2015 8:53:39 GMT -5
I hope this will help.
There were 2 Curnow families who emigrated to South Australia 1865 on board the "Queen Bee".
The First Family gave their residence as Ludgvan
Emigration number 359/1
Thomas Curnow 57 Jane Curnow 49 (nee Grenfell) Alice White Curnow 14 Thomas Curnow 10 Richard Curnow 47
The second family gave their residence as Towednack. Emigration number 359/1 (same as first family). This Thomas was the son of Thomas & Jane Grenfell born 27 Jul 1828, Ludgvan.
Thomas Curnow 36 Elizabeth Curnow 33 William 8 Thomas 1
In addition to the above families there was a second emigration number 359/2 to William Curnow age 18, residence Cornwall. As of yet I have not been able to work out how he fits in with Thomas's family as there are 2 possible candidates born in Ludgvan 1846.
Regards Vicki
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Post by sue on Nov 20, 2015 13:40:05 GMT -5
Hi Vicki Slightly confused by what you've posted! The 1st family quoted as emigrating on the Queen Bee 1864, Thomas Curnow 57 Jane Curnow 49 (nee Grenfell) Alice White Curnow 14 Thomas Curnow 10 Richard Curnow 47 would be Thomas 1813 of Hannibal & Alice, Alice having re-married to a Mr White after Hannibal's early death, and so daughter of Thomas & Jane being named Alice White is homage to Thomas' stepfather. Their Richard Curnow was aged 17 on board the Queen Bee (I expect “47” is a typo!) Jane, Thomas' wife, is not nee Grenfell. Apart from anything else, Thomas 1813 was too young to marry Jane Grenfell in 1825! I am not sure why you would be thinking Jane Grenfell is the wife here? Thomas Curnow & wife Jane Grenfell stayed tucked up in Cornwall. They can be found in censuses 1841 – 1881. The 2nd family on board the 1864 Queen Bee I would agree is the son of Thomas Curnow~Jane Grenfell (much work has been done since this thread was started, and not all of it annotated here in this particular PG thread; this includes likely naming of a daughter Catherine Ann for Thomas' 1846 sister, his 2nd marriage to Emma Rowe 1868 taking place at the home of a Gendal, as was the marriage of his brother William, & his sister Mary was married to Francis Gendal & also emigrated to S Aus) – that is, Thomas 27 July 1828 (this is his date of baptism, not date of birth, which the record shows as 1 October i.e. 1827), who was very unlucky with the survival rate of his young children with his 1st wife, who herself died in Moonta age 33. The identity of William Curnow age 18 on board the same ship: I think you might be wise to consider all William Curnows born Cornwall , and not restrict yourself to Ludgvan. It would be easy to assume that William is related to one of the 2 Thomas Curnow families above – who I am “certain” are not father & son Thomas Curnows, as you are thinking. But I have learned that assumptions have a nasty habit of leading one up the garden path! So, just as the head-of-family Thomas Curnows on the Queen Bee are not closely related, I think once you have unravelled all the William Curnows, you will find that William age 18 on board the Queen Bee is similarly only distantly related. So in summary, I think you'll find that these Curnows on the Queen Bee will come from the same vicinity, but be just friends (if that) rather than close relatives. I'll leave you to the pleasures of sorting out the William Curnows of about that age for now – after all, the fun is mostly in the puzzling out! Sue
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 21, 2015 11:50:28 GMT -5
Hello Vicki and sue Hope the following will be of help 1851 census HO107/1917 Part5 ED1a Folio 314 Page 11 Shed 32 Chylasson Thomas Curnow 48 born Towednack Jane 48born St Just Jane 25born Ludgvan Thomas 23 Mary 15 William 13 John 12 Nancy Q 9 born Towednack James 7 born St Ives Catherine 4 Thomas Charles 3mths G/son census as above Shed 33 William Glasson 79 B /smith born Lelant Ann 74 born Ludgvan
Elizabeth Curnow 27 Daug Widow Schoolmistress William Curnow 4 G/son born Towednack [ his this your18yr old] 1851 census as above ED1c Folio345 Page 14 Lower Penderleath Peter 54 born St Ives Mary 43 born Towednack Richard 18born StIves John 15 Peter 14 born Towednack Mathew 13 Mary 12 Thomasine 10 Samuel 6 Elizabeth Ann 5 William 4 Robert 8mths Regards roadrunner Doug
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Post by sue on Nov 21, 2015 15:20:37 GMT -5
Hi Roadrunner
Yes, as I said, Thomas Curnow~Jane Grenfell remained in Cornwall & can be found in censuses right through to 1881, this 1851 appearance at Chylasson being one of those entries. ….........................................................................
As to widowed Elizabeth Curnow schoolmistress in 1851, resident with her parents William & Ann Glasson and her son William Curnow, in depth research a while back showed that these ages for Elizabeth & son William Curnow are just plain wrong.... simply tracing this household back to 1841 shows this.
Yes I know the identity of this William Curnow – who was not born anywhere near 1846!
He had a Glasson mother, was 1841 & 1851 resident with his Glasson blacksmith grandfather, so it's pretty easy to find his marriage in online transcription records, his children, and so on.
This chap is not therefore anything to do with the 1864 Queen Bee emigration list that Vicki was quoting. …....................................................................
Similarly, William Curnow son of Peter of Penderleath at Towednack 1851+ can readily be traced in further censuses. ….....................................................................
I would rather wait for Vicky to come back, if she so wishes, with any further comments or queries that are of particular interest to her regarding Curnows, as I do not know what her interest is or what line she is pursuing, if any.
William & Thomas Curnows abound, and they need painstaking, slow consideration of all available information in the records to differentiate them, if one is so interested!
Sue
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