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Post by andrewwa on Nov 20, 2012 19:38:03 GMT -5
I’d greatly appreciate assistance in confirming the identity/pedigree of the William Trevorrow (Trevorroe) who married Mary Shugg in St Ives on 3 July 1785.
Most Trevorrow family researchers (including me at this stage) have William as the youngest son of Thomas Trevorrow (Trevorro) and Frances Uren.
We have good information regarding the Shugg connections.
I have always had some doubts regarding William’s parents for the following reasons:
a) William’s siblings Henry (1732), James (1736), Thomas (1740) and John (1744) were all baptised in Uny Lelant.
b) William is baptised in St Ives in 1751 – some 7 years after the next youngest sibling. Yes this is possible and may coincide with a move to St Ives and the possible loss of a child.
c) Family Search & OPC give details of a William Trevorrow (son of Thomas Trevorrow) who was buried in St Ives on 3 March 1755. (This has been highlighted by CT previously.)
d) The name William does not feature strongly with current ancestors:
• Henry – as per GFather/Thomas’ Father
• James - ??
• Thomas – Father
• John – Mary Uren’s Father
e) Although all of William’s siblings have a daughter/son called Frances/Francis William does not.
At this stage we’re also without confirmed deaths/burials for the following:
1. William Trevorrow and his wife Mary (nee Shugg)
2. His possible parents, Thomas Trevorrow and his wife Frances (nee Uren).
Would also appreciate any insights/leads on the pedigree of this Frances Uren who may have been baptised in Sithney, on 27 Feb 1704 with a father called John.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 20, 2012 21:13:53 GMT -5
Andrew - from my explorations into the Trevorrow families a while back I determined that William Trevorrow was most likely the following:-
William son of John and Wilmot Trevorrow bp. 30th July 1757 St Ives
John Trevorrow married Wilmot Williams 3rd August 1755 at St Ives but I have not yet worked out where John belongs.
Frances Uren I believe was baptised at Lelant 7th April 1706 daughter of James Uren and Elizabeth Bryan who married at Lelant 2nd February 1693.
I will take a closer look at your message again later tonight and see if I can find answers to your other concerns.
CT
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Post by andrewwa on Nov 21, 2012 0:09:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the speedy feedback CT.
Especially appreciate the Frances UREN links....it makes more sense than the Sithney link.
However, if the above is correct then I need help to find the William TREVORROW who married Mary JOHNSON in St Ives on 7 May 1786 as he previously was identified as son of John TREVORROW and Wilmot (nee WILLIAMS).
There are few births/baptisms for William TREVORROW around this period.
William TREVORROW & Mary (nee JOHNSON) had 7 children, two of whom have Johnson as a middle name.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2012 4:23:11 GMT -5
Regarding William Trevorrow - I find it quite strange that nobody seems to show any interest at all in the following:- William son of Thomas Trevorrow buried 3rd March 1755 at St Ives    By my reckoning it appears the only likely candidate here is the son of Thomas and Frances! I do note that you have mentioned this event but you have still shown no keen interest in it! Is it perhaps because you don't believe the record really exists? Because if that is the case then I will send you a copy of the relevent page from the St Ives Parish Register. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2012 4:35:59 GMT -5
I am reasonably confident of the following:-
Thomas Trevorro buried 18th February 1766 St Ives
Frances Trevorro, widow, buried 15th December 1775 St Ives
Finding a burial for William is a little more difficult given the number of William Trevorrows who were mariners. As a mariner/fisherman it is entirely possible that he was 'lost at sea' in which case there would be no burial (and therefore no burial record) unless his body was recovered.
Mary Trevorrow of St Ives age 83 was buried 23rd January 1845 at St Ives
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2012 4:44:03 GMT -5
I have not yet identified parents for this William and as he was another mariner the task is not easy. You say you have 7 children for him yet I currently show just five:- William bp. 6th January 1788 St Ives (born 7th September 1787) Mary Johnson bp. 10th April 1791 St Ives (born 28th September 1790) James Johnson bp. 4th November 1792 St Ives (born 13th October 1792) Henry bp. 11th January 1795 St Ives Thomas bp. 23rd April 1797 St Ives Richard bp. 23rd November 1800 St Ives - buried 1st October 1801 St Ives Mary Johnson was baptised 24th April 1763 at St Ives daughter of James Johnson and Mary Clarke who married 28th January 1755 at St Ives. One of the witnesses to this marriage was a Richard Clarke which might explain the name of the youngest Trevorrow child. The only non-Clarke names present in the family appear to be William, Henry and Thomas. I think caution is required with this family given that I have been able to find just one child to James and Mary Clarke - Mary baptised 8 years after the marriage! CT |
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Post by andrewwa on Nov 21, 2012 9:12:37 GMT -5
G’day CT
The burial of William TREVORROW, son of Thomas, in 1755 is the reason why I raised this issue. Everything indicated that this William WAS NOT the husband of Mary SHUGG so I was keen to find the correct one.
To try and find the correct connection was the main purpose of my trip to St Ives on 2009. Common belief in St Ives was the Thomas/Frances UREN connection. BUT there was still that nagging doubt!!
The John TREVORROW who married Wilmot WILLIAMS in St Ives on 3 Aug 1755 was baptised in Uny Lelant on 14 Feb 1726. His parents were John TREVORROW (bap UL 1 Feb 1703) and Jane/Jone (nee UREN) (bap UL c1705), who were married in Uny Lelant on 1 Jul 1725. I am reasonably confident of John TREVORROW’s pedigree back to William NICHOLAS alias TREVORROW born in Ludgvan c1569.
John TREVORROW (husband of Wilmot) had the following siblings:
• John (bap Towednack 4 Sep 1725; d UL 21 Sep 1725)
• Catherine (bap St Ives 14 Feb 1726)
• Elizabeth (bap UL 23 Aug 1730)
• James (bap UL 23 Apr 1732; d 4 Nov 1732)
• Arabella (bap UL 26 Dec 1735)
At this stage I have no marriages for any of these.
NOTE: The lack of a Wilmot and Jane/Jone has always been of concern.
I agree with your children for William TREVORROW and Mary (nee JOHNSON) – a total of six (6) only (not seven). For some reason I had an extra Mary (??).
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 22, 2012 3:16:46 GMT -5
Big Call! I have son John married to Mary Francis in 1767 but there is no son or daughter named Francis/Frances to that family and I currently have no record of a John Trevorrow with a son/daughter of that name anywhere at all at a time that would fit. Frances daughter of Thomas?  I have to assume here that you have the son of Thomas and Frances as the man who married Joan Fisher at Dulverton, Somerset in 1763? I have a couple of issues with that conclusion. 1. Prior to naming a daughter Frances there were three daughters named Elizabeth, Catherine and then Mary. After these there were two daughters named Frances and then another Mary. 2. The Thomas Trevorrow who married Joan Fisher is currently in my database as the one buried at St Ives in 1792 age 59 which makes him born about 1732. Thomas son of Thomas and Frances did not arrive until about 1740! Given there are no daughters named Joan and the name Frances was not used until the fourth daughter I would have to seriously question any link to Thomas and Frances. We do not yet know the parents of Joan Fisher, there are no known daughters to Thomas and Frances and the names Catherine and Mary do not appear in the family of Frances Uren. CT |
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Post by andrewwa on Nov 22, 2012 11:39:12 GMT -5
G’day CT Always appreciate your speedy response …. I greatly appreciate your efforts, and those of others, on this site but wasn’t expecting only you to come to my aid…..was actually hoping to get some feedback from some other Trevorrow researchers who may be connected to the same lineage as my wife. Unfortunately there appears to be few – if any. In my very first New Member posting on this site (1 Mar 2011) I advised: This work builds upon research by Trevor Thomas, Melbourne, May 2001 - "Descendant Tree from Nicholas alias Trevorro of Ludgvan. With connections of Thomas Families of St Ives, Cornwall" as well specific family research completed by my wife's uncle, Alan Robert Trevorrow (1931-2009) of Victoria, Australia.I have no issues in correcting errors in what may be considered previous work and am in no way defensive of any of the data/work done by others. It’s all taken in good faith. The Trevor Thomas and Alan Robert Trevorrow, mentioned above, I understand spent extended periods of research in the St Ives area. The data that they provided was the result of their best efforts. I have been attempting to progressively verify/check/update using the web access to new/updated data and seeking additional data where I find what appears to be obvious discrepancies. In Cornwall we have to work through what is available on the public record. It often appears to be incomplete, may contain errors and can’t always be taken as gospel. You are often highlighting errors in records/transcriptions. I appreciate the efforts of what appears to be any army of dedicated individuals to constantly add to the available data. My focus has been on verifying the pedigree of my wife’s family in as much detail as possible and adding details of the broader Trevorrow relatives as data becomes available. For our own lineage I verify by acquiring certificates whenever possible but, as we all know, this can be an expensive exercise. I fully appreciate the difficulty of connecting individuals and groups on the basis of incomplete data. We use all means at our disposal to paint a picture with the highest level of confidence possible. I realise that in doing so I may still have made incorrect conclusion/s. Such is the nature of the task before us…………………. However, back to your post……. I agree a big call and unfortunately incorrect.  Perhaps I should have just made the comment that William and Mary do not have a daughter called Frances which raises concerns as this is what I meant. Some/not all of his siblings do. I agree. The John Trevorro/TREVORROW who married Mary FRANCIS in St Ives on 28 Feb 1767 did not have a daughter named Frances. I have no additional information on Thomas’ wife other than her name being Joan/Jone and no date for their marriage. In addition I have been unable to confirm Thomas’ death/burial. I was aware of the 1792 burial but had discounted it as it was not a good fit. Again, the issues relate to verifying work done by others when the information that is available is so often incomplete. With no marriage date it was possible that Thomas & Joan/Jone had had other daughter/s called Frances who had not survived. This could have been prior to William being born in 1870 or Elizabeth in 1873. They certainly appeared to want to have a Frances in the family as I actually have 3 daughters called Frances (1779, 1780 and 1782) prior to the Mary who was born in 1785. I have Henry TREVORROW getting married to Elizabeth GYLES/GILES in St Ives on 2 Dec 1759. They have a son called Francis (one of 5 sons) but no daughter called Frances (amongst 4 daughters). Three of the daughters are called Elizabeth. The one whom I assumed survived is called “Betsey” (bap 19 May 1771) who marries Richard GYLES in St Ives on 1 Jun 1794. I have the 4th sibling of the William (who died young) as James TREVORROW who married Elizabeth PEARCE in St Ives on 26 Sep 1759. They too have a daughter called Frances (bap 25 Jul 1779) but only after 5 other daughters (3 of whom are called Elizabeth). If the connection between all/any of William's siblings to Thomas TREVORROW and Frances (nee UREN) are incorrect then I'm only too willing to have the issue raised and continue to find/verify the correct connections. It appears that the type of issues raised in our posts are not unique. I think that my bona fides are well established in my contributions/assistance to others on this site over the past 20 months. I will endeavour to be more careful with my comments in the future and stick to real facts rather than erroneous statements which could lead to unnecessary efforts by others.  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 22, 2012 21:11:51 GMT -5
Andrew - it seems some of my comments may have come across as being a little harsh which was certainly not the intent!  As I think you are aware I have no direct family links to the Trevorrow families or, for that matter, many of the other family names discussed in this forum. Kathie set up this site so that people with ancestry particularly in the West Penwith area could have somewhere to discuss their various families and to get help or help each other find more information or answers to queries. I guess I have taken it a little further. 1. If a query involves an area where my own family are known to have been located then I am particularly interested. 2. If a query involves another family with whom my family had connections then I am particularly interested. 3. If it involves Cornwall or a Cornish name then I am interested. 4. If someone has a problem that appears particularly difficult then, being a long-time fan of the likes of Agatha Christie, Sherlock Holmes etc., I like to take up the challenge. 5. If someone has any genealogical problem at all then I like to try and help or at least to point them in the right direction. As a result I gradually add details of most queries to my own database which often helps later to identify and correct problems. And the big thing is that I have learned to look at queries and possible answers from many different directions. Some have called it 'thinking outside the square'.  So - if I see something that does not look 'quite right' then there is often a very good chance that it is just that - 'not right'. I then make every effort to dig through all available resources until hopefully I can find the answer that is the right one.  I do not always succeed and there are times when I am proved wrong.  But that is the best part about it - if I am proved wrong then there is a good chance that in doing so the absolute correct solution has been found!  Unfortunately there may be times, as it would appear in this case, where my efforts to highlight possible errors may be lacking a little in tact. Remember - it is only by making mistakes that mistakes can be corrected! So please don't take it too much to heart, I am merely trying to point out possible errors as I see them in the hope that ultimately the problems you are facing might be solved. I will have a few more comments to make on some parts of your last hopefully later tonight. But for the moment I will offer this one:- I disagree - Thomas and Joan had but two daughters named Frances - 1780 and 1782. There was only one Frances Trevorrow (sic.) baptised at St Ives in 1779 and she was the daughter of James and Elizabeth. (I transcribed the St Ives Registers for that period for the OPC.) PS - I realise that you are dealing with the work of others and that there was a lot of effort put into that work. I also went through the same problem with my family and had to totally reconstruct the many of the pedigrees included in that work. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 22, 2012 21:34:04 GMT -5
Regarding the burial - it is not always a good idea to try to find a 'good fit' for a burial to a particular baptism. I believe I found the marriage as a 'potential' using FamilySearch/IGI but I now have copies of some transcripts of the Dulverton, Somersetshire records. The initial information I found showed that Thomas Trevorrow was 'of Cornwall' however the transcript I just downloaded shows names only. However - it should be noted that a number of West Penwith people were married in Dulverton including:- William Martins of St Ives, Cornwall now sojourner in North Molton, Devon married Ann Dun at Dulverton, Somerset 25th March 1763 Thomas Treverrow married Joan Fisher 12th May 1763 DulvertonHenry Ley of Lugin, Cornwall (Ludgvan) married Sarah White at Dulverton 22nd February 1764 Children to Thomas and Joan in Dulverton:- Thomas son of Thomas and Joan Treveron? bp. 9th January 1764 CT |
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Post by andrewwa on Nov 24, 2012 23:09:28 GMT -5
Back to my original query which was related to identifying the identity/pedigree of the William TREVORROW who married Mary SHUGG in St Ives on 7 May 1785.
We can rule out that William’s parents were Thomas TREVORRO/TREVORROW and Frances (nee UREN).
CT has advised that the more likely parents are John TREVORRO/TREVORROW and Wilmot (nee WILLIAMS) who were married in St Ives on 3 August 1755. Their son William was baptised in St Ives on 30 Jul 1757.
However, I now have the need to identify the pedigree of the William TREVORRO/TREVORROW who married Mary JOHNSON (OPC)/JOHNSTONE (FS) in St Ives on 7 Mar 1786, as previously I had this William linked to John and Wilmot.
FS and OPC provide details of only one other William TREVORROW for whom I have no marriage details. He was baptised in Ludgvan on 3 Jun 1744 with parents of William TREVORROW and Ann (nee SWEETE). This is the only other available birth between 1706 and 1770.
I have the allocation of children (all St Ives) between these two couples as follows:
William TREVORROW & Mary SHUGG:
• William (b 3 Jan 1786; bap 5 Feb 1786)
• Mary (b 11 May 1788; bap 24 Aug 1788)
• John Shugg (b 7 Jun 1790; bap 28 Nov 1790)
William TREVORROW & Mary JOHNSON:
• William (b 7 Sep 1787; 6 Jan 1788)
• Mary Johnson (b 28 Sep 1790; bap 10Apr 1791)
• James Johnson (b 13 Oct 1792; bap 4 Nov 1792)
• Henry (bap 11 Jan 1795)
• Thomas (bap 23 Apr 1797)
• Richard (bap 23 Nov 1800)
The matter is complicated somewhat (by adding another William & Mary as parents) with the marriage between William TREVORROW and Mary DANIEL in St Ives on 3 Feb 1800. I have their children as follows:
• William Daniel (d 31 Oct 1801)
• Mary (bap 6 Apr 1804)
• William Daniel (bap 1 Feb 1807)
• Richard (bap 7 Jun 1809)
• David (bap 28 Jun 1812)
• Henry (bap 20 Mar 1814)*
• Thomas (bap 22 Sep 1816)
• Eleanor (bap 11 Apr 1819)
• Elizabeth (bap 30 Dec 1821)*
• John (bap 31 Dec 1826)*
Those marked with * were residing with their parents in Hellesveor, St Ives in 1841.
I have the parents of this William TREVORROW (bap Lelant 8 Dec 1780) as Richard TREVORA/TREVORROW and Eleanor THOMAS .
This period is obviously not supported by Census Data and I have been unable to uncover any relevant wills etc..
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 25, 2012 8:21:09 GMT -5
I tend to agree that it is likely that the husband of Mary Daniel was the son of Richard and Eleanor. William and Mary named a son Richard and a daughter Eleanor and, perhaps significantly, they also named a son David. I cannot find burials for William or Mary at St Ives between 1841 and 1851 so unless they were buried elsewhere they should appear in the 1851 Census. That is where I prefer to be cautious - I am unable to find either of them in 1851! The additional information from that Census would hopefully confirm just who they were. I will try and put some more work into this tomorrow. CT |
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Post by andrewwa on Nov 25, 2012 11:38:41 GMT -5
WILLIAM TREVORROW & MARY SHUGG
In 1841 Mary TREVORROW nee SHUGG was 80yo and living with her son John and Margaret (nee LAWRY)Trevorrow and family on Factory Lane, St Ives.
I believe Mary TREVORROW nee SHUGG was buried in St Ives on 23 Jan 1845. It is likely that her husband William TREVORROW died before 1841.
WILLIAM TREVORROW & MARY JOHNSON
I have found no census data for this couple.
WILLIAM TREVORROW & MARY DANIEL
I too have been unable to find this family in 1851.
However, by 1861 it appears that William has died (burial most likely in St Ives on 7 Oct 1855 – residing in Hellesveor, St Ives) as Mary is a 79yo widow living with her daughter Elizabeth & Family (Richards) on Pednvounder, St Ives. Mary is likely to have been buried on 29 Mar 1868 – 86yo residing in Halsetown.
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Post by sue on Nov 25, 2012 13:40:19 GMT -5
William Trevorrow & Mary Daniel:
I may be way of beam....
I did a search for 1851 Mary X, resident St Ives, born 1782 +/- 3 years given the 1861 age of 79, & found 3 Trevorrow entries in the FMP index:
TREVORROW, Mary 1779 age 72 Penzance RD
TREVORROW, Mary 1782 age 69 Penzance RD
TREVORROW, Mary 1785 age 66 Penzance RD
Then using the same criteria but William:
TREVORROW, William 1781 age 70 Penzance RD
TREVORROW, William 1782 age 69 Penzance RD
I can't view the original or transcriptions of these entries but someone else may be able to.
The Cornwall Online Census Project has one each of these William & Marys at Folio 384 Page 12:
Chyandour,William Trevorrow,Head,M,70,,Tin Miner,Lelant Cornwall,,
,,Mary Trevorrow,Wife,M,,69,,St Ives Cornwall.
This is maybe 10 households along from Folio 385 Page 14:
Hellesvean,Richard Trevenon,Head,M,42,,Tin Miner,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,Mary Trevenon,Wife,M,,45,,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,Robert B. Trevenon,Son,,15,,,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,Martha Trevenon,Dau,,,12,,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,Elizabeth Trevenon,Dau,,,9,,St Ives Cornwall,,
,,Richard Trevenon,Son,,6,,,St Ives Cornwall,,
Then looking a few households along further, this time at the whole list of people at Hellesvore being Folio 385 Page 15 to Folio 387 Page 19 (Hellesveor being the place of death 1855 of Wm Trevorrow you think is husband of Mary Daniel), the only Trevorrow at Hellesvore at date of 1851 census is William D(aniel?) Trevorrow 44 + Catherine wife & Mary niece.
Just wondered if these may be relevant, given that different websites seem to transcribe entries differently (on occasion only, of course!)
Sue
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I have to assume here that you have the son of Thomas and Frances as the man who married Joan Fisher at Dulverton, Somerset in 1763? 
I do not always succeed and there are times when I am proved wrong. 
But that is the best part about it - if I am proved wrong then there is a good chance that in doing so the absolute correct solution has been found! 
