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Post by tenpoundpom on Oct 27, 2012 6:57:24 GMT -5
Towednack Trewhellas
Not sure whether it's best to create a new thread or post in the old one. Connected but a previous generation to the Christopher/Phillis children post.
So...my project this time was to sort out Christopher's sibs and their spouses..
Here's my bash at it..Martin Trewhella and Joan Lembrey are the parents.
I'm sure that some of this is incorrect, and certainly incomplete!
Martin and Joan had 8 children
1. Catharine (b. 1758 d. 1758)
2. Martin (b. 1759 d. 1789). Martin married Margaret THOMAS, and they had 4 children - Margaret (b 1784), Martin (b 1785), Matthew (b 1787) and William (b 1879). After a suitable period in widow's weeds following Martin's death, Margaret married William RAPSON in Ludgvan in 1891 and had lots more children.
3. William (b. 1761 d. 1762)
4. Catharine (b. 1764
5. William (b. 1765 d. 1790)
6. Matthew (b. 1767
7. Joannah (b. 1769 d. 1848). Married Thomas EDDY. Three children Susanna (b 1808), Thomas (b 1810) and John (b 1811)
8. Christopher (b. 1774 d. 1823). Married Phillis TREWHELLA. Children are subject of a previous thread, and my direct line.
Here's what I hoping to find out...
Did Catharine (b 1764) marry, and who did she marry? There are a couple of prospective spouses I've sussed out - William TREWHELLA and John BERRYMAN.
Matthew's spouse seems most likely to be Alice TREWHELLA. Is this correct?
All help gratefully received.
Phillis's parents and sibs will be the next port of call once I've done my dash with this mob.
I suspect Phillis's family will be very familiar ground to CT!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 27, 2012 10:23:06 GMT -5
As it is all the same subject it is probably better to minimize the number of threads.  However! WRONG! ;D - Martin and Joan had NINE children. Correct Correct Correct Yes, she did marry.  But she did NOT marry William Trewhella.  That would have been a bit naughty 'cos the William Trewhella you mention was her BROTHER!  ;D Catherine married John Berryman at Towednack 7th January 1797 WRONG!  William was buried at Towednack 11th May 1838 William Trewhella married CATHERINE TREWHELLA 29th January 1792 at Towednack and had eight children. (Catherine was daughter of William Trewhella and Ann Cock) Yes, Matthew married Alice Trewhella who was another daughter of William Trewhella and Ann Cock. They had seven children. Yes .................. and No! She married Thomas Eddy but had FIVE children. There was a daughter Johanna born about 1807 or 1808 but I have never found a baptism for her. She married Job Friggens at Gulval in 1827 and then later married Andrew Berryman at Ludgvan in 1835. And there was another son - William baptised 20th February 1814 at Towednack. He married Cordelia Rowe at Gulval in 1840. And now for child number 8. John Trewhella son of Martin and Joan was baptised at St Ives 1st January 1773 and died at Ludgvan 5th March 1858. He was buried at Ludgvan 12th March 1858. John married Mary Berryman at Towednack in 1800 and had a total of nine children. You already know about Christopher so I will not comment further on him. Actually, they are all familiar to me! CT |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Oct 29, 2012 6:49:13 GMT -5
CT,
Thanks for all your help in unravelling all these connections. There are certainly many twists and turns in the Trewhella line. I think I have identified all the grandchildren of Martin and Joan, but would just like to clarify a couple of matters.
Did Catharine Trewhella and John Berryman have a one and only child - Catharine Berryman (bapt 1806)?
Did John Trewhella and Mary Berryman have two daughters named Mary - one baptised in 1807, and one baptised in 1810? If so I presume Mary 1 died in infancy.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 29, 2012 9:46:21 GMT -5
No. John Berryman had a son John (1792 Gulval) to his first wife Elizabeth Brush and then:- Catharine bp. 4th June 1797 Towednack and bu. 10th March 1805 Towednack Richard bp. 24th January 1799 Towednack Elizabeth bp. 6th September 1801 Towednack *** Mary bp. 21st August 1803 Towednack Catherine bp. 27th April 1806 Towednack and bu. 11th August 1827 Towednack *** Elizabeth married Matthew Trewhella at Towednack in 1824 and had one daughter (Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella 1824) before she died. Matthew then married Grace Quick in 1826 at Towednack. That is what is recorded in the PRs but I have a couple of issues with it. 1. I have not found a burial for the earlier Mary 2. Mary bp. August 1807 and then Matthew bp. January 1808 just five months later With the previous child to Mary being baptised in July 1805 it is quite possible Mary was actually born in 1806 or early 1807 and her baptism delayed. But the lack of burial provides doubts about the whole scenario. I have an idea that I made a note 'somewhere' about this with a possible solution. But exactly where that note would be is totally unknown to me now.  AH! - There is a burial at St Ives for a Mary daughter of William and Mary Trewhella dated 12th March 1809 - that may be the one. Yes, I recall now that I thought it more likely that Mary was the daughter of William and Mary and that her father was incorrectly recorded as John when baptised. That would also solve the issue of the two baptisms so close together. William Trewhella married Mary Watts at St Ives in 1802 and had just one surviving child - Matthew born 1804. William was a son of Christopher Trewhella and Jane Michell and it was this family and their descendants who owned Trewyn at St Ives until the 1950s. Although Trewhellas (and others) from Towednack and Lelant occasionally baptised children at St Ives I do think it a little strange that John and Mary would baptise three children at Towednack and then one at St Ives followed by three at Lelant, one more at Towednack and then the last at Lelant. St Ives just does not seem to fit the picture. For the moment I suggest you remove the first Mary from the family of John and Mary or at least add the notes that she more likely belongs to William and Mary of St Ives. CT |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Nov 2, 2012 8:09:35 GMT -5
CT
Just like to clarify the number of John Trewhella and Mary Berryman's children. I have 9 if I count the two Marys (John, Jane, Martin, Mary, Matthew, Mary, Catharine, Elizabeth, Ann). This accords with the number of children you indicated in a previous post, but I'm not sure whether your counting included two Marys. If not, there is another child I haven't yet tracked down!
Simon
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 3, 2012 6:03:06 GMT -5
Simon - if you count the two Marys then there are nine children but as I indicated in my last I suspect the earlier Mary probably belongs to William and Mary (nee Watts) Trewhella. CT |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Aug 8, 2013 6:37:30 GMT -5
John Berryman had a son John (1792 Gulval) to his first wife Elizabeth Brush and then:- Catharine bp. 4th June 1797 Towednack and bu. 10th March 1805 Towednack Richard bp. 24th January 1799 Towednack Elizabeth bp. 6th September 1801 Towednack *** Mary bp. 21st August 1803 Towednack Catherine bp. 27th April 1806 Towednack and bu. 11th August 1827 Towednack *** Elizabeth married Matthew Trewhella at Towednack in 1824 and had one daughter (Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella 1824) before she died. Matthew then married Grace Quick in 1826 at Towednack. Had a very brief visit to Towednack on our recent UK visit. Too much to do, too little time! Anyway one of the headstones in the graveyard was Edwin Matthew Trewhella who is a descendant of Matthew Trewhella & Grace Quick. So a fifth cousin of mine. That much was easy to work out. But I'm now left with a couple of questions about Matthew's first marriage to Elizabeth Berriman and the child Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella. It seems likely that Elizabeth died at, or shortly after the birth of her daughter. The burial date for Elizabeth (the mother) is the same as the baptism date of the daughter (3 Dec 1824). At burial Elizabeth's age is recorded as 29 (from the transcript), which suggests a birth year of 1794/1795. Now the original record (which I have not seen) could be wrong, the transcript could be wrong, or Elizabeth may not have been baptised until she was 6 years old, but is it possible that the Elizabeth that Matthew Trewhella married came from a different couple, given the discrepancy in likely year of birth? The only other culprit couple that I can identify Andrew Berryman & Mary Curnow. They had a daughter Elizabeth baptised in St Erth in 1794, but (assuming it is the same Andrew & Mary), there were 4 additional children baptised in Towednack, including Richard in 1800. It does appear that the child Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella survived. Presumably farmed out to a wet nurse, and then went to live with Berriman relatives. I think I find her in the 1851 census recorded as "Elizabeth Berriman", a relative of Richard Berriman (abt 1800), living at Treloweth, St Erth. In 1853 Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella marries William Chellew. Her father is named as Matthew Trewhella (a mine agent), and one of the witnesses is Richard Berriman. At the moment I'm unsure to which Elizabeth Berriman, Matthew Trewhella married. Was it the 1801 (bpt) daughter of John & Catherine or the 1794 (bpt) daughter of Andrew & Mary. Both couples had a son named Richard born around the same time in Towednack, so superficially the 1851 census, and the marriage record for Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella, does not help. Insights/clarification very welcome! |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 8, 2013 15:23:46 GMT -5
I had doubts for quite some time but the short answer to the above question is .... NO! The Will of John Berriman of St Erth, yeoman Will written 22nd August 1832 Will proved 11th February 1848 Testator died 25th January 1843 Persons named in the Will as follows:- wife - Catrine daughter - Mary Bennats, wife of John Elizth Berriman Trewhella son-in-law - Matthew Trewhella sons - John, Richard witnesses - none son John died in the lifetime of the testator I do suspect that there is one item wrong here and that is "Testator died 25th January 1843". According to the West Briton dated 10th February 1843 we have the following entry:- His age tells us that this must be the son who 'died in the lifetime of the testator' but this is from a second-hand transcript and I have not seen the original Will. Of course (how unusual) I have now run into some problems with the first being that both John the testator and his son John were probably buried at Towednack and I do not have records for Towednack for that time period. But there is worse to come! The West Briton transcriptions have this from 28th February 1845:- Neither of these appear in the St Erth Parish Register and there is no age for Richard so it is difficult to know just who he was but as he died at Treloweth I would expect that he may have been the son of John. The difficulty there is that you may have him still living at Treloweth in 1851. John 'might' be our Testator but the transcriber could not read the age very well. And this is where the 'it can only get worse' aspect comes into play. Being a clever little vegemite I thought I would simply log in to the British Newspaper Archive and take a look at the original page of that particular newspaper. Surely I would be able to use computer enhancements if necessary to make that item readable so that I could determine if this was the right man. WRONG!!!!! - no matter what I try I can not get any newspapers at all for 1845 in Cornwall. No Cornishman, no Royal Cornwall Gazette, no West Briton .... zip, zilch, zero, nuttin'! If the age is, as the transcriber seems to think, 82 then it projects a birth around 1763/4. John was baptised in May 1766 but he could have been born a couple of years earlier as the previous known child was baptised in 1762. But then why say that he was 'of St Erth' when it says Richard was 'of Treloweth' ? John was also at Treloweth in 1841. I do suspect that this might be our man though. In 1841 there were two elderly John Berryman's at St Erth - this bloke at Treloweth and another at Church Town. The latter died in 1846 and was buried at St Erth 16th March 1846. He was the son of Nicholas Berryman and had been married to Elizabeth Mills. Looks like sleep will have to wayt - again! - while I sort this lot out.  But at least the details from the Will tell us that Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella's mother was the daughter of John and Catherine. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 9, 2013 1:55:53 GMT -5
With regards to the information I posted regarding the West Briton of 28th February 1845:- It is perhaps worth pointing out that no such record of the death of Richard Berryman (var.) can be found in the Death Index (i.e. FreeBMD original image) so I have to wonder if there might be an error in the transcription. Richard Berryman, uncle to Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella, died at St Erth 28th June 1865 and was buried there on July 1st. As far as I can tell he was the only Richard Berryman at Treloweth during the period in question. It would be very useful if I could get a look at an image of the original page of this newspaper to see if I can read exactly what it reads, particularly the age of John Berryman. CT |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Aug 12, 2013 5:48:22 GMT -5
And probate is granted to wife Elizabeth and niece Elizabeth Berriman Chellew which is additional evidence to the connection. There is a notice in the Royal Cornwall Gazette in 1864 stating that Treloweth is to be let, which proves that Richard was alive, if not well, at the time!
Elizabeth, (Richard's wife) dies in 1885 at St Ives. In one of the post 1861 censuses she has a Chellew neice in residence.
The 1861 census transcript on FMP as Richard & Elizabeth listed as "Burgman", on Trelaweth Farm
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 12, 2013 16:04:49 GMT -5
Thanks Simon. I had the burial of that Richard in 1865 so was curious about the entry in 1845. With no other living Richard Berryman connected to the family at Treloweth it really had me scratching my head and wondering if the transcriber somehow got 1865 transcriptions mixed in with those of 1845. But then as far as I know 1865 has not yet been transcribed. I also wonder if the information proved for the 1845 Transcription regarding Richard and John might also have been mixed together because I am reasonably sure now that the 1845 death in FreeBMD is going to be that of the Testator of the quoted Will. Of course the other problem I have is that if that is the case then it appears John Berryman was not, as I suspect he should have been, buried at Towednack with the rest of his family! And he is not at St Erth. CT |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Aug 13, 2013 8:13:53 GMT -5
Is there any information as to the wife/wives of Richard Berriman (1799 - 1865)? I'm just trying to "tidy up" things if possible. My blundering round the parish records and the censuses suggests that Elizabeth was Elizabeth Bennetts (baptised 1808 in St Ives but "from Lelant")- married 1837 in Lelant (Richard listed as a widower), and that Richard had a previous marriage to Honour Cardell in 1833 at St Erth. If correct, there were no children from either marriage that I can locate, and it seems that Richard "adopted" Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella and she, along with her aunt, were the executors of his will. Interestingly when her aunt dies, the sole executor is William Chellew, the husband of Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella, which suggests that Elizabeth Berriman Trewhella was her closest living relation (well..at least..the closest one she was prepared to entrust her affairs to)!
It's a bit of uncharted territory for me in regards to Honour Cardell and Elizabeth Bennetts, so I'm willing to be pointed in the right direction if the wrong tree is being barked at!
Simon
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 13, 2013 11:55:31 GMT -5
Close but I think you have the wrong Elizabeth Bennetts. Richard Berryman/Berriman married Honour Cardell at St Erth 9th May 1833 with witnesses Christopher Cardell jnr and James Thomas. Honour was baptised at St Erth 1st November 1801 to Christopher Cardell and Honour (nee Ralph) and she was buried at St Erth 2nd May 1835 at the age of 34. No children to this marriage. Richard then married Elizabeth Bennetts of Lelant 20th June 1837 at Lelant with witnesses Edward Bennatts and Francis Soddy. The witnesses indicate that Elizabeth was most likely Elizabeth daughter of Edward and Elizabeth (nee Cooper) Bennetts of Lelant baptised 4th October 1807 at Towednack. No children from this marriage either and I believe you have the burial information. CT |
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But she did NOT marry William Trewhella. 
That would have been a bit naughty 'cos the William Trewhella you mention was her BROTHER! 
;D
