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St Ives
Oct 13, 2012 9:47:39 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 13, 2012 9:47:39 GMT -5
Stevens Ford Courtney Levant Tin and Copper Mine.
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St Ives
Oct 18, 2012 5:26:41 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 18, 2012 5:26:41 GMT -5
The Ford in 1911 census was an 'Electric Pump Driver in Tin Mine', probably the Levant Tin and Copper Mine'. I'm interested in his two sons Harry b1908 and John b1912. Is anyone else interested in these two people?
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St Ives
Oct 18, 2012 22:09:58 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 18, 2012 22:09:58 GMT -5
Brian - you pose a difficult task based on information that is sparse (to say the least) and also inaccurate. Our first difficulty is the time-period given restrictions on the release of BMD material. All we have to work with really is the 1911 Census so unless we have a member who actually knows the families of these boys then I can't see just what we can do. I have found the family in 1911 and they are indeed at St Ives as you say. However I very much doubt that Mr Ford would have been working at the Levant Mine given the distance from St Ives to Trewellard where the mine is situated would be approximately 15 miles! The only other way that you might be able to learn more about the Ford boys would be to work backwards a little and then trace other relatives - i.e. cousins. But therein lies our next problem! Alfred Harry Ford along with his wife Winifred Prudence and son Harry were all born in Staffordshire! It is possible there were earlier Cornish connections but unless you are willing to provide a little more information that might enable us to help you then perhaps you might need to rethink your strategies. CT
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St Ives
Oct 19, 2012 12:57:22 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 19, 2012 12:57:22 GMT -5
Alfred Harry Ford along with his wife Winifred Prudence and son Harry were all born in Staffordshire! They certainly were but their second son John (my mother's half brother) was born in St Ives in 1912, as was my mother Evelyn Hazel Courtney. I have noted Alfred Harry Ford had two women pregnant during 1912, that's were the complications come in! I believe John Ford married an Iris Margurerite Gillbard b1901 of Menheniot, Cornwall. Their children Jennifer and Roger John tend to confirm this. What I can't find is details of their wedding. As she was eleven years older then him it is possible John Ford was her second husband!
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St Ives
Oct 19, 2012 15:01:03 GMT -5
Post by sue on Oct 19, 2012 15:01:03 GMT -5
Hallo Brian
I don't like to write much about potentially living persons....
Freebmd has Roger Ford mother Gillbard born Sep Q 1947 Liskeard RD; Anthony W Ford mother Gilbard born Dec Q 1942 Liskeard RD.
Other than the John Ford who married Iris M Choules Eton RD Dec Q 1943 with offspring Martin J Dec Q 1945 & Gregory J Dec 1949, records of Fords marrying ladies called Iris or Marguerite are hard to come by....
The possibility that the parents did not marry cannot be discounted.....
Certainly looks like you may need to approach this from a different angle, as CT says...
It seems Winifred Prudence was born 1881 West Brom to the only Trevaskis in that Registration District, a family hailing from St Erth.
Sue ....................
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St Ives
Oct 19, 2012 16:07:04 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 19, 2012 16:07:04 GMT -5
Right - now we have a little information to work with! Sue - that will be a different Ford:- Anthony W C FORD married Annie S Gillbard June Qtr 1942 Liskeard R.D. Brian - You say that John Ford (1912) and Evelyn H Courtney were half-siblings so I am going to need some clarification so that some of this web can be untangled. William COURTNEY married Jane John STEVENS in 1900 somewhere in the Penzance R.D. - he was born at Newlyn and she at St Ives. In 1911 William and Jane John Courtney were living at Rosewall Terrace, St Ives along with their surviving daughter Susan Jane age 8. I have found no record of a death for William Courtney up until 1920 but FreeBMD has the following Birth record:- Evelyn H COURTNEY September Qtr 1912 Mother's MN - STEVENS On face value that suggests that Evelyn was the daughter of William Courtney yet you are saying that Alfred Harry FORD was responsible. CT
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St Ives
Oct 20, 2012 9:20:10 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 20, 2012 9:20:10 GMT -5
Right - now we have a little information to work with! Sue - that will be a different Ford:- Anthony W C FORD married Annie S Gillbard June Qtr 1942 Liskeard R.D. Brian - You say that John Ford (1912) and Evelyn H Courtney were half-siblings so I am going to need some clarification so that some of this web can be untangled. William COURTNEY married Jane John STEVENS in 1900 somewhere in the Penzance R.D. - he was born at Newlyn and she at St Ives. In 1911 William and Jane John Courtney were living at Rosewall Terrace, St Ives along with their surviving daughter Susan Jane age 8. I have found no record of a death for William Courtney up until 1920 but FreeBMD has the following Birth record:- Evelyn H COURTNEY September Qtr 1912 Mother's MN - STEVENS On face value that suggests that Evelyn was the daughter of William Courtney yet you are saying that Alfred Harry FORD was responsible. CT Evelyn Hazel Courtney was living at Rosewall Terrace when she was born. Her biological father went to France with the Royal Welch Fusillers during WWI and her mother de-camped with Evelyn Hazel to Praze and joined the Land Army working on the St Aubyn Estate. This is when John and Harry Ford whereabouts were lost. I presume they stayed in St Ives with WinEfred Prudence Ford nee Trevaskis. John Ford and Hazel Courtney were both born in 1912 October and June respectively.
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St Ives
Oct 20, 2012 9:27:00 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 20, 2012 9:27:00 GMT -5
Right - now we have a little information to work with! Sue - that will be a different Ford:- Anthony W C FORD married Annie S Gillbard June Qtr 1942 Liskeard R.D. Brian - You say that John Ford (1912) and Evelyn H Courtney were half-siblings so I am going to need some clarification so that some of this web can be untangled. William COURTNEY married Jane John STEVENS in 1900 somewhere in the Penzance R.D. - he was born at Newlyn and she at St Ives. In 1911 William and Jane John Courtney were living at Rosewall Terrace, St Ives along with their surviving daughter Susan Jane age 8. I have found no record of a death for William Courtney up until 1920 but FreeBMD has the following Birth record:- Evelyn H COURTNEY September Qtr 1912 Mother's MN - STEVENS On face value that suggests that Evelyn was the daughter of William Courtney yet you are saying that Alfred Harry FORD was responsible. CT Evelyn Hazel Courtney was living at Rosewall Terrace when she was born. Her biological father went to France with the Royal Welch Fusillers during WWI and her mother de-camped with Evelyn Hazel to Praze and joined the Land Army working on the St Aubyn Estate. This is when John and Harry Ford whereabouts were lost. I presume they stayed in St Ives with WinEfred Prudence Ford nee Trevaskis. John Ford and Hazel Courtney were both born in 1912 October and June respectively. After WW1 Alfred Harry Ford, Jane John Courtney, Evelyn Hazel Courtney and a later child moved to Birmingham. It is John and Harry Ford I'm trying to find.
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St Ives
Oct 20, 2012 10:36:07 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 20, 2012 10:36:07 GMT -5
Okay - now that we have a little bit of a picture surrounding the births of the two boys of interest (i.e. Harry and John Ford) we might be able to work our way around to something that will lead to some answers. Keep in mind that we have little else other than FreeBMD to work with given the time period in question. Now then - you seem to think that Harry and John may have remained in Cornwall with their mother, at least for a while. Based on that I have found what 'may' be a marriage for Harry. FreeBMD shows a marriage in 1929 for a Harry FORD to an Alice T NICHOLAS. This is the only marriage in Cornwall for a Harry Ford but there are many more in other parts of England. To be certain one way or another it is possible that you may have to buy the marriage certificate. But this marriage did occur in the Penzance R.D. so it must be reasonable possibility. It appears probable that his wife was Alice Trevorrow Nicholas who was born in Glamorgan, Wales around the end of 1904. In 1911 she was at St Ives with her grandparents John and Alice (nee Trevorrow) Care. The parents of Alice Trevorrow Nicholas were Richard Charles Nicholas and Elizabeth Lampshire Care who were married in the Pontypridd R.D. in Wales in the June Qtr of 1904. If I can find some children for Harry and Alice Ford hopefully the names might give us some clues. CT
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St Ives
Oct 20, 2012 10:49:51 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 20, 2012 10:49:51 GMT -5
I have found a number of possible children for Harry and Alice Ford. It is possible these are not all the same family but I suspect they may be. All I have to go on is the surname FORD and the mother's maiden name of NICHOLAS:-
Alice born 1929 Penzance R.D. William B born 1937 Ystradganlais R.D. Michael J born 1938 Newport R.D. Edwina A born 1942 Caerleon R.D. Maureen M born 1945 Caerleon R.D.
As I said, I cannot guarantee all of these belong and there was another group of Ford children born from about 1959 onwards with the mother's name having been Nicholas. That lot is certainly a different family.
CT
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St Ives
Oct 20, 2012 16:33:58 GMT -5
Post by sue on Oct 20, 2012 16:33:58 GMT -5
Hi Brian This is reading like some progress by CT.... May I ask about " I believe John Ford married an Iris Margurerite Gillbard b1901 of Menheniot, Cornwall. Their children Jennifer and Roger John tend to confirm this. What I can't find is details of their wedding. As she was eleven years older then him it is possible John Ford was her second husband! " Is this something you know from relatives, or have you deduced this information re "your" John Ford from somewhere else? I ask so as to clarify "fact" from other sources/records/fairytales, to help in hopefully identifying what happened to John Ford 1912. Sue
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St Ives
Oct 21, 2012 1:17:20 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 21, 2012 1:17:20 GMT -5
And in addition to Sue's input/questions I have the following:- There is but one birth record in England for someone named Iris Marguerite Gillbard and that birth was registered in the Liskeard Registration District in the June Qtr of 1901. I have had a look at some Online Family trees to see what others may have recorded about her (rightly or wrongly) and they indicate she was born at Menheniot 7th March 1901 and died at Sudbury in 1995. The Death information has the England and Wales Death Index, 1916-2006 as a Source so I then checked that. The death of Iris Marguerite Gillbard was registered at Sudbury in the June Qtr of 1995. Her birthdate is recorded as 7th June 1901. Iris Marguerite GILLBARD died UNMARRIED. So - where did you get the information that she married John Ford and who the heck are the children 'Jennifer and Roger John' that you have mentioned who ' tend to confirm this'? At the moment you have us chasing phantoms based on what appears to be a fair amount of fanciful thinking so please help us to help you by providing us with some useful information that has at least some semblance of authenticity! If we can get just one piece of information that is actually based on FACT then there is a chance we might be able to help you track down the information you want. CT
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St Ives
Oct 24, 2012 9:36:17 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 24, 2012 9:36:17 GMT -5
I met John Ford (b St Ives Oct 1912) with my Mother Evelyn Hazel Courtney/Ford (b St Ives June 1912) in the presence of my grandfather Alfred Harry Ford who acknowledged both of them as his children. It was at this time that John Ford stated he was married to an Iris and had two children Jennifer and Roger John. The reason I followed up Iris Marguerite Gillbard was because a Jennifer and Roger John Ford were born in Liskeard district of Cornwall and both had a Gillbard as their mother. I haven't been able to prove this which is why I called for help from goodselves!
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St Ives
Oct 24, 2012 9:53:44 GMT -5
Post by brian on Oct 24, 2012 9:53:44 GMT -5
CT thanks for info Re Harry Ford (b1908 Staffordshire). This Welsh entries could be the reason why he disappeared from our family radar. Something else I noticed about his wife Alice that her maiden name was Nicholas which was his mother's maiden name, an emigrant from Cornwall. I wonder if they were related?
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St Ives
Oct 24, 2012 14:05:24 GMT -5
Post by sue on Oct 24, 2012 14:05:24 GMT -5
Well, on the basis of John Ford married Iris Anyone 1928 onwards in the UK, then looking for Roger then Jennifer to parents of those conjoined names, I find nothing. Looking for all Roger Fords 1928 onwards, all Jennifer Fords 1928 onwards then refining that to those with parents of the same 2 surnames, I get a combined total of 35 Roger & Jennifers. Narrowing it to Roger J Ford with parents of the same 2 surnames as Jennifer Ford, I get firstly Adams as a mother's surname – but no UK marriage for a John Ford to an Adams. Secondly I get Pinwell as a mother's surname. This gives me a marriage John Ford to Vera M Pinwell in Chatham RD Kent, March Q 1944. Jennifer C Ford born Dec Q 1948 & Roger J Ford born June Q 1950, both in the Bromley Kent RD. This is the closest match I can find to your information, but, the mother's name is not Iris.... Oddly, I cannot find a UK birth for a Vera Pinwell, nor a marriage of a Pinwell to a Vera...... I've looked at all Pinwell births, the name Iris appears only once: Lilian Iris M Pinwell born Dec Q 1903 Plympton RD, Devon/Cornwall border. (Whether she is the Lilian E Pinwell who marries Joseph Dowsett in Croydon 1932 I do not know, but I cannot see the birth of another Lilian Pinwell...) I am now clean out of UK ideas! I may of course have missed something in FreeBMD....... Or John Ford may have married abroad...... Of course Brian, you could always consider looking for those Ford children in Wales that CT found, in UK online directories/electoral roll records for the South Wales area, then writing to them speculatively.... (A suggestion, not a recommendation!) Sue
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