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Post by Glazin2018 on Oct 23, 2019 15:13:49 GMT -5
CT
Would you agree that the Vincent above, baptised around 1799, appears in the 1851 census back at Ludgvan and married to Eliza SMITHAM?
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2019 0:53:45 GMT -5
I do now!  After checking the marriage records I have concluded that the George Uren who witnessed the Crowan marriage of Vincent to Eliza Smitham was the same man who married Marianne Trevorrow at Lelant in 1825. I would suggest they were brothers and, therefore, both sons of Thomas and Catherine Uren. Vincent was baptized at Lelant 1st December 1799 to Thomas and Catherine Uren. What I am not sure about is the identity of the Vincent Uren who witnessed the 1825 marriage of George Uren. The signiature appears certainly different to that of Vincent at Crowan in 1824 although it does have a certain similarity with the 'cent' in Vincnt. Of course, the difference might be attributable to the fact that for the Crowan marriage Vincent's signiature appears in the middle of the page whereas for the Lelant marriage it was at the very bottom of the page. To try and explain that a little better - in the case of the Crowan marriage Vincent had the entire bottom half of the book on which to rest his hand while signing. For the Lelant marriage the record was the last on the page and as the second witness Vincent had nothing to rest his hand on. His signiature then would have been little more than an inch from the bottom of the page meaning his fingers holding the pen would have been elevated above the heal of his hand. That would certainly account for some difference in handwriting in which case I would be prepared to suggest that the groom of 1824 and the witness of 1825 may well have been the same man. CT |
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Post by Glazin2018 on Oct 24, 2019 15:59:51 GMT -5
Good morning CT
There is another very likely candidate for the Thomas who was the son of Edmund and Elizabeth. He was buried at Lelant in 1837 aged 76 years and he died at St Ives. The informant at his death was a Mary Care of St Ives, his daughter.
Lannanta
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Post by Glazin2018 on Oct 24, 2019 16:01:03 GMT -5
CT
Yes my conclusion exactly
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2019 16:37:12 GMT -5
Hmmm - possible ….. but finding anything about him is proving a little difficult.  I cannot find a marriage for a Mary Uren to anyone named Care so the only potential marriage I have at the moment is for a William Care in 1823 at St Ives to Mary Shilton, widow. That item in itself produces further problems:- 1. I can find no Shilton/Shilson etc. marriages where the bride is a Uren, Mary or otherwise. (The majority of these are in the East of Cornwall anyway.) 2. I can find no burial for a Shilten (var.) to cater for Mary being a widow. Then I looked at potential baptisms for Mary daughter of Thomas Uren and the only one that really appears likely is 1791 at Gwinear to Thomas and Thomasin Uren. And guess what? - that creates yet another problem! The only marriage I can find for a Thomas Uren to anyone named Thomasine is the following:- 15th September 1790 Lostwithiel Thomas Uren soldier of His Majesty's 74th Regiment of Foot and Thomasin Gruit of Lostwithiel spinster with Thomas Hodge and John Burnett as witnesses. The only other child I can find for Thomas and Thomasin was a son Thomas baptized at Camborne in 1794. So, is this our Thomas Uren of 1761 or is it another. And is one, or the other, or both the man buried at Lelant in 1837? There is a burial at Phillack in 1827 for a Thomasine Uren of Bodriggy age 60. That could, potentially, be useful as well.  But if all the above does relate to your 1837 Lelant burial then where does it leave us with Thomas and Catherine?  I'll leave it with you to ponder while I go get some sleep! |
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Post by Glazin2018 on Oct 24, 2019 20:16:13 GMT -5
CT
Yes my first look at Mary Care proved as fruitless. Although there are a number of individuals in the 1841 census at St Ives who would fit. As you can imagine I was elated to see in 1837, at the start of the records, the informant description actually being a daughter as opposed to something like "in attendance". It is possible of course that Mary is not his natural daughter, rather a daughter of his wife who was born before their marriage.
I might just put this aside for the moment and continue to deal with the known persons and come back to it at a later date. I will send you a copy just in case I am missing some spelling or likewise on the document.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 25, 2019 1:21:47 GMT -5
This is beginning to present itself as more of a complex problem than perhaps originally thought so a step or two backwards might be a good move for the time being.
I now suspect the Lostwithiel marriage might indeed be linked with the Penwith baptisms to Thomas and Thomasin Uren and as I more or less indicated this morning it does complicate things further. The baptism of Mary in 1791 is a reasonable fit for Thomas of 1761 and the details from the death certificate as does the 1823 Care/Shilton (widow) marriage which means attention may need to be turned to areas outside Cornwall.
A step or two back and some work around the fringes might help turn up something to help unravel the mystery.
CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Oct 27, 2019 23:03:56 GMT -5
CT
Just checking to see if I am correct in saying that Catherine died as a result of childbirth and the child, Edward survived?
If that is the case then Thomas and Catherine (nee Laity) had 10 children as you have above and from that 53 or thereabouts grand children... and not one Edmund in sight.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 28, 2019 4:38:25 GMT -5
That would appear to be the case although it might be considered irrelevant if the grandfather was not known to the children of Thomas and Catherine Uren. And as I am finding with some of the Nicholas family of Sennen not all families 'played by the rules' when naming their children.
However, given recent findings regarding Thomas Uren who died in 1837 this may all become purely academic.
That being the case then perhaps a study of the names Thomas and Catherine did use might be worth pursuing.
CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Dec 7, 2019 22:21:40 GMT -5
CT
Just regarding No 4 - Elizabeth UREN who married John UREN.. you have the husband as the son of JOHN UREN and HANNAH MICHELL. The younger John as you show was baptised 10th February 1799 at Lelant. However in April 1799, John, the son of John and Hannah UREN was buried at Lelant.
I am wondering if a better fit for the marriage to Elizabeth UREN would be John UREN, the son of Vincent UREN and Jane BENNETTS, baptised 1798 at Lelant.
Regards
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 8, 2019 9:33:11 GMT -5
Yes, given the last I looked at this family was way back in 1999 at a time when I did not have access to the wealth of records now available I am perfectly willing to work with that possibility. I certainly did not know about that burial back then and that piece of information makes a huge difference.
I have now made the change and, at least for the time being, have John son of Vincent and Jane Uren as the husband of Elizabeth as you suggest. I will keep that open to possible change in the future as I am still a little perplexed at the naming of first daughter Margaret Penberthy Uren.
CT
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Post by londoner on Dec 8, 2019 10:01:54 GMT -5
It makes sense if Jane Bennetts is descended from John Bennetts and Margery Penberthy who married at Sy Just in 1729. Probably not their daughter as she would have been to old but possibly a granddaughter.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 9, 2019 5:18:31 GMT -5
Thanks Londoner - certainly a possibility worth pursuing. But I will have to leave this on the 'to do' list unfortunately.
I have already had three deployments to the fires in NSW and there is a good chance I may be returning again in a few days. We also have activity beginning to escalate in the local fire season so it may be a long Summer yet again.
CT
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After checking the marriage records I have concluded that the George Uren who witnessed the Crowan marriage of Vincent to Eliza Smitham was the same man who married Marianne Trevorrow at Lelant in 1825. I would suggest they were brothers and, therefore, both sons of Thomas and Catherine Uren. Vincent was baptized at Lelant 1st December 1799 to Thomas and Catherine Uren.
