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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2012 3:04:32 GMT -5
And a little more. James Kempthorn son of Erasmus and Martha Pascoe baptised 26th October 1735 at Wendron It would appear that finding the marriage of Erasmus and Martha might be a bit of a challenge! CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2012 3:40:00 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D Found 'em! Erasmus Pasco married Martha Kempthorne 3rd February 1730 at Mullion Martha ye daughter of James Kempthorne & Nichola his wife was baptised ffebruary 27th 1710 at Mullion James Kempthorne was marryed to Nichola Hockin December 10th 1709 at Mullion None of this is currently in the OPC database or in FamilySearch which is why I have made it a little easy for you. I will leave it to you for now to flesh out the rest of the families but 'yell' if you would like some help. CT
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Post by tenpoundpom on Dec 11, 2012 4:24:18 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D Found 'em! Erasmus Pasco married Martha Kempthorne 3rd February 1730 at Mullion Martha ye daughter of James Kempthorne & Nichola his wife was baptised ffebruary 27th 1710 at Mullion James Kempthorne was marryed to Nichola Hockin December 10th 1709 at Mullion CT LOL..I was about to send you the link to the parish record for the Erasmus/Martha hookup familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11031-136278-45?cc=1769414&wc=MMVH-JYC:n1251204888There is an extensive Pascoe family tree back to about 1570 on the net. Reliable as far I can confirm it when I cherrypick my ancestors. Thanks for all your help, and for cluing me in to the Sanders/Sanderson extras Simon
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 11, 2012 5:51:51 GMT -5
All part of the service. But I am still waiting on John Trewhella! CT
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Post by tenpoundpom on Dec 12, 2012 5:26:52 GMT -5
All part of the service. But I am still waiting on John Trewhella! CT The John Trewhella challenge update.. John was born about 1801, probably at Towednack if the 1861 and 1871 censuses are to believed, though the 1851 says Ludgvan. Baptism record cannot be found at Ludgvan, and I understand the original records from Towednack no longer exist. John is not found in the Holbyn transcription as far as I can determine. But since a baptism cannot be found for John in Ludgvan, Towednack seems the likely place, and I'm sure CT has accounted for all other possible parents apart from William Trewhella & Ann Glasson! All the other children of William & Ann were baptised in Towednack, so it makes sense. The 1841 census shows that John is married to Nancy. I suspect the marriage is to Ann Jelbart in 1829 at St Buryan. John is buried in 1876 in Sennen. The children of that marriage who make it through to a census are John (abt 1830) William (abt 1832) Christopher (abt 1834) Joseph (abt 1836) Josiah (abt 1838) Nancy (abt 1841) Susanna (abt 1843) Sophia (abt 1846) Elizabeth (abt 1849) So who gets to go to Bendigo? I suspect one of the males, as this is the most likely scenario for the Trewhella name to be preserved. John is found in 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901. Carpenter. Not going to make a new life in Australia at age 71 I suspect. William is found in the 1851 census as a farm servant in the John Jelbart household at St Levan. Likely that John Jelbart is his uncle. By 1861 he is also an Omnibus proprietor. Back on the farm in 1871, 1881, 1891, but still running a bus company in 1901 Not found in the 1911 census, but at as a 69 yo widower running a couple of buses in Sennen, I doubt that he is going to chuck it all in and move to Australia. Christopher disappers after 1841 Joseph is found in 1871 census living with father and sister, Sophia. Estmated year of birth a couple of years out. Dies 1874, age 37. Josiah is buried in 1843, age 5. That leaves Christopher as being unaccounted for. I suspect that he is the Bendigo connection. familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/t/r/e/Ian-A-Trewhella/index.htmlIs this where it takes up in Australia? I know that this is a different Ian Trewhella. Is he the one who has done a lot for disabled athletes? Can I have my cigar, or are there other twists and turns I need to explore? Simon ;D Edit...Yikes...hold the cigar...there are a couple of Christopher Trewhellas who turned up in Bendigo. Need to sort out the correct one!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 12, 2012 6:46:55 GMT -5
You have done very well so I think I might let you have that cigar now! Perhaps you should let me know what information you have that suggests two Christophers at Bendigo so that I might help prevent a trip down the garden path for you. There was a second Christopher in Australia but he was mining near Ballarat before moving to the Blackwood/Barry's Reef area near Trentham. When he quit mining he moved to Melbourne and settled at St Kilda. This Christopher was the brother of my 2xgt-grandfather Benjamin Trewhella. So let me know what information you have so that I can confirm exactly who it all relates to. While you are savouring the cigar you might cogitate over at least one more twist. Christopher Trewhella (son of John and Nancy) left an illegitimate daughter back in Cornwall. CT
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Post by tenpoundpom on Dec 12, 2012 6:55:02 GMT -5
Emily, and Ann...I knew there would be another twist!
The other Christopher is indeed the gold miner, so sorted as you posted
Thanks...now back to the IOS for me!
Simon
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 12, 2012 7:46:58 GMT -5
That's it! I will leave you with IOS now and take the rest of the night off. Let me know if you need me to help out as I have copies of most of the IOS registers. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 13, 2012 22:53:15 GMT -5
No - that is not correct.
Towednack records are available at the Cornwall Record Office although, like most Parishes, there are records missing. The Hoblyn Transcript covers the extant registers to 1812 but there are also Bishops Transcripts from both Exeter (1597-1764) and Bodmin (1706-1720). The BTs do not cover all years but they are a great help.
The Archive Centre at St Ives has some of the Towednack PRs on microfiche but I understand they are very difficult to read. If you viewed the Towednack PRs at the CRO you would also be using Microform and I recall even those were not the easiest to read when I was there in 1994.
The CFHS have also produced Indexes of Towednack PRs:- Baptisms 1720-1840 Marriages Pre-Civil Registration (to July 1837) Burials 1813-1837
So there are quite a number of Towednack resources available even though it is much more desirable to view the original records. The above CFHS records are available for purchase from the CFHS Online Store.
CT
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Post by tenpoundpom on Dec 30, 2012 21:12:07 GMT -5
Returned from the IOS and back to the Trewhella/Towednack connection at present. Hopefully any genealogical howlers I have made can be corrected and there are a couple of questions. When I last left Towednack I had got back to the marriage of William Trewhella (1730 - 1811) and Ann Cock (1741 - 1820) in 1767. I have William's parents as Martin Trewhella (b.1695) and Catherine Baragwanath. I have Martin's sibs as William (b.1698), Thomas (b.1690), Mary (b.1691), Martin (b.1694), Alice (b.1697), Jane (b.1700), Christopher (b.1702), Catharine (b.1705), and Catherine (b.1708). Any missing? Haven't looked at the Baragwanath side too closely yet. I have Martin's father as another Martin married to Alice Phillips. I've started to look at the Phillips side. I did see that there were a few Phillips threads on the Zennor board and I am getting a bit confused. I wasn't sure whether to post to one of those threads (but which one?) or carry on here. I can be pointed to, or relocated to, one of those threads if that is the more appropriate place! I have Alice as the daughter of Francis Phillips (d 1697) and Jane. The other children of Francis and Jane are Francis (m Elizabeth Sweete) Robert (m Margaret Udy) Jone (?no spouse) Jane (m Zacharias Curnow) Elizabeth (?no spouse) Mary/Marie (m Thomas Udey/Udy) Anne (m Edmond Paull) The father of Francis is John Phillips and his wife is Eleanor. There is another John Phillips married to Joan lurking around Zennor at the same time. I'm having trouble making head or tail of the family before that, but I'll go through the Zennor posts more carefully at some stage. Now for the questions! 1. Has a baptism record for Alice Phillips been located? Some of the Ancestry trees give a year of birth as 1666. Is this correct, or is it an estimation from her known marriage date (10 Nov 1688)? There is no age at time of death on the burial record I've located. The Ancestry trees just cite other Ancestry trees for this birth date. 2. Is the maiden name of Alice's mother, Jane, known? If it is in one of the Zennor threads it passed me by. 3. Have I got the names of Alice's sibs spouses correct?. Some are named in Francis's will, but some are not. Did Jone or Elizabeth ever marry? Jone seems to have been banished with a payoff of 40 shillings, so could have moved from Cornwall. Thanks for any help. Simon
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 31, 2012 4:26:28 GMT -5
In actual fact ......................... Yes! You have missed ALL of the siblings of William and instead you have displayed all the children of Martin and Alice which is a generation back! Siblings of William (1730) were - Catharine (1725-1726), Catherine (1728-1813), Martin (1733-1774), Christopher (1736-1824), Alice (1739- ) and Matthew (1742-1774). CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 31, 2012 4:40:39 GMT -5
The Baragwanaths are difficult but as far as I have been able to work out Catherine (1701-1799) was the daughter of William Baragwanath and Jane Curnow.
Correct
That is how I have it but once again that period prior to 1713 at Zennor is extremely difficult as very few records exist in any readable form.
1. No - any birthdate attributed by IGI/FamilySearch that says 'about' is pure guesswork based loosely on a Male being married at age 25 and the Female at age 21. I follow the following formula:-
A woman was legally able to marry at age 12 at one point but generally you will find that circumstance in the more well-to-do families where large fortunes are involved. I usually work on her being married at about 16 at youngest but the most important piece of information to work from is the date her very last child was born. Mostly you will only have a baptism date so this is not totally foolproof as the child may have been baptised as an adult. Assuming that last child was born not very long before baptism I then work on the female being a maximum age of 48. Occasionally you might find one a little older but I don't think I have found one in more than 30 years. So work on age 48 for the last child and subtract from the baptismal year and you end up with the most likely earliest possible date of birth. And then using age 16 as the youngest age to be married and you have the latest she was probably married.
2. NO! - if one of the Ancestry threads has a maiden name for Jane then in my opinion they are quite possibly 'making it up as they go along'. To my knowedge the parents of Jane are not known and there is not enough readable information left in the Zennor registers to hazard a reasonable guess. And we don't even know that she was actually born in Zennor!!!
3. What you have for the Phillips family is just what I have.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 31, 2012 5:41:42 GMT -5
Okay - there was a John Phillips who appears to have married a Joan Rowe but I know of no son named Francis. In 1837 Richard Row of Zennor left a Will in which he named 'Thomas son of John Phillips my brother-in-law' and later he names sisters 'Jane wife of William Thomas and Joane wife of John Phillip'. Then in 1654 a John Phillips of Zennor wrote a Will that was proved in 1657. In that Will he named children Thomas, Cornelius and Embline. He also left money to the Church of Zennor as well as the Church of Crowan. The only grandchild named was John son of George Michell yet there is no mention of a son Thomas. The Row Will confirms the marriage of John Phillips and Jane Rowe but ........... Now we need to look at the Will of Matthew Phillips of Zennor written and proved October 1628. He leaves bequests to the following:- Francis son of John Phillips Mathew son of James Phillips Son Thomas Phillips and his three children Henry James and Matthew God-daughter Judith Sweete Robert Michell 'I forgive one bond of tenne pound due from my son James Phillips' Alice his daughter (of James) 'a bond of neere tenne pound due from my sonne Thomas Phillip' Daughter Phillipa Bishop gets a portion equal to that of her siblings but also receives an additional 40 pounds. Phillippa is named as Executrix. Finally - 'I give and bequeath unto my foure children John Phillip, (James Phillip *), Thomas Phillipp and Phillippa Bishoppe .....' By that I read that Francis Phillips was the grandson of Matthew Phillips by his son John. I also have a record indicating that Francis son of John Phillips and Elnor his wife was baptised at Zennor 14th September 1625.That information came from TRENCROM with the Zennor BTs quoted as the source yet I cannot find any other reference to it. TRENCROM - could you please check this record and advise. CT PS - there was at least one other family of Phillips around Zennor making at least three.
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Post by tenpoundpom on Dec 31, 2012 22:13:33 GMT -5
Thank's for all that info on the Phillip's connection. Summarised about 4 years of posts on the Zennor forum in one fell swoop and has relieved a potential headache from developing this afternoon! Son Thomas Phillips and his three children Henry James and Matthew Kathie's transcription has the three children as Henry, Jane, and Matthew. Have you cited the original will? Thanks again Simon Late extra edit! - I have found a longer transcript of the will Kathie made on Ancestry in 2001 where the children are Henry, James & Matthew, so will go with James!!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 2, 2013 0:44:43 GMT -5
Hi Simon - there is still a lot of work to do on the Phillips but, as you can see, it is not easy. I need to hear back from Trencrom about the baptism of Francis Phillips in 1725 where he quoted the parents as 'John and Elnor'. A friend looked at the Zennor BTs at the CRO earlier last year and could not find the entry and the Zennor PR that I have is in such bad condition that any pages for thatperiod are all but impossible to read. Bottom line is - if Trencrom was mistaken (or if I noted the details from him incorrectly) then I may have to do some rethinking about the parentage of Francis Phillips. Until I know one way or another about the name of the mother I will have to leave things as they are. CT
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