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Post by cathy on May 7, 2012 10:00:44 GMT -5
Hello all,
I have been battling with this gentleman for the last few days and have stopped making any progress!
Andrew Noall and Sibella (maiden name unknown) had 4 children:
Sibella - 1739
Margaret - 1744
Andrew - 1747
Elizabeth - 1752
Margaret married John Laity in Feb 1776 in St Ives and had 3 children.
I am trying to trace Andrew Noall Senior and have hit turbulence! There were 4 possible families that he could be part of:
1.) Henry Noall married Mary Perkins in St Ives in 1707, they had 5 children including an Andrew who was born in 1717. I have discounted this family as I believe this Andrew and 2 of his siblings all died in 1723.
So that leaves me with 3 possibilities.
2.) The first one sees Andrew Noall marry Margaret in 1708. This seems the best guess as our Andrew also had a daughter called Margaret and a family with a habit of reusing names!! They had the following children:
John - 1708
Andrew - 1710
Symon - 1711
William - 1712
3.) The other possibility is Philip Noall married Catherine Saunders in St Ives in 1711 with the following children:
Ann - 1716
Margaret - 1720
Andrew - 1724
Symon - 1727
4.) Final candidates are Simon Noall and Margery:
Edward - 1708
Andrew - 1711
Margery - 1712 (died in 1715 by which time her Father was also dead)
Has anyone got any suggestions? I haven't been able to find any useful Wills and could do with hint of how to solve this riddle!
Cathy
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 7, 2012 11:34:45 GMT -5
Cathy - I don't have the answer at the moment and have been unable to find a marriage for Andrew and Sibella.  But I can at least eliminate one of your final three options!  Andrew and Sibella's first known child was baptised in 1739 so I think it would be fairly safe to say that those bloke was not involved.  Also - Isabella Noall age 73 was buried at St Ives 3rd January 1783 thus placing her birth somwhere around 1711. CT |
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Post by cathy on May 7, 2012 13:51:20 GMT -5
Hi CT, Ahh, yes I think it would be fair to discount that Andrew as he would have had to have started young!!  I have also had no luck finding a marriage for Andrew and Sibella, think I will try the surrounding parishes next! Can't find a marriage to an Isabella either - frustrating!  The search continues - thank you for your help! Cathy |
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Post by gatp63 on May 8, 2012 14:12:37 GMT -5
Cathy,
Can you confirm why you have this Margaret Noall as the husband of John Laity and not the Margaret born to Philip Noall and Ann Richards in 1748? I do realise there is a 38 yo Margaret Noell buried in 1786 so maybe this accounts for her.
Sorry but cannot help with who Sibella is nor a marriage for her and Andrew Noall.
Glenn
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Post by gatp63 on May 8, 2012 15:27:41 GMT -5
Cathy,
Can I throw something into the mix. If the 1786 deceased Margaret is a Mrs Noell and not Miss Margaret Noell baptised in 1748 then this may account for the name of Margaret and John's 3rd daughter, Jane.
Jane was the name of the sister of Margaret b1748. Clutching at straws I suppose. Can't find any candidates in St Ives for a 38yo Mrs Margaret Noall in 1786.
Glenn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2012 19:03:18 GMT -5
Glenn - I had best try and clear up things a little. Although I do not yet have the 1786 burial of Margaretl Noall assigned it does appear probably that she was the daughter of Philip and Ann. Several months ago I discovered an anomaly in the records (yes, another one! :  and then yesterday I was able to sort another minor problem with the family of Andrew and Sibella. As it transpires Margaret and Sibella, both daughters of Andrew and Sibella Noall, were buried seven months apart at St Ives Sbiella married Philip Noall at St Ives 7th April 1766 with Philip and William Noall as witnesses. Margaret married John Laity at St Ives 5th February 1776 with Richard and William Noall as Witnesses. The witnesses are interesting although I am not sure about them all. Philip witnessing the first marriage is almost certainly the father of Sibella's husband Phillip but I am not yet absolutely certain of who he was at this point. And the signiatures suggest that it was probably the same William Noall as witness to both marriages. But his identity and that of Richard Noall are currently a mystery. However, it is the sorting of the Margarets that is required here and the following burials are those of interest:- Sibella NOALL of St Ives age 75 buried 6th April 1814 St Ives Sibella LAITY of St Ives age 70 buried 12th December 1814 St Ives 1. No, there is no error on my part here 2. No, I am not smoking anything funny! ;D Sibella Noall age 75 was the daughter of Andrew and Sibella baptised in 1739 and she married Philip Noall. Sibella Laity is actually Margaret!  I spent quite some time on this about six months ago and search as I might I could find no Laity with a wife named Sibella anywhere let along St Ives! So I equated an approximate birth date from the age recorded when Sibella Laity was buried and from there proceeded to search to see if I could find any possible Sibella who might have married a Laity. In the end I had to look at the available data again and consider options. And the only sensible option available was that the name Sibella was an error in the register and that this had to be Margaret Laity, nee Noall, wife of John Laity of St Ives. CT |
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Post by gatp63 on May 9, 2012 2:30:46 GMT -5
Thanks CT,
It certainly makes sense for Margaret to have died in 1814 since John's will dated 7/9/1719 references all 3 daughters but not Margaret suggesting he was a widower by this time.
I gather the Sibella Laity is in the records? I wonder if same error was on the grave stone. John was a Mason so I cannot imagine he would tolerate that sort of mistake. I have a cousin in St Ives at the moment I will see if she can take a look.
Regards,
Glenn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 9, 2012 6:03:02 GMT -5
It is Sibella Laity in the Parish Register. As for the gravestone - well, first you would need to know if there was one in the first place and then you would need to hope it still survived. Finally, if there was a stone and it did survive you would need to hope that the inscription also survived! Hmmm - you seem to be under the impression that John was a monumental mason!  Just because a person's occupation was 'mason' basically means that he worked with stone. In many, if not most, cases where you find this occupation you will find that the 'mason' was more of a labourer employed to 'harvest' and cut the stone. CT |
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Post by cathy on May 9, 2012 9:44:46 GMT -5
Hello both, There are 4 possible Williams for the witness to Sibella and Margaret's Marriages. The first is William Noall son of Andrew and Margaret who was born in 1712, this would be Sibella and Margaret's Uncle if their Father turns out to be that Andrew!! The other possibilities are William son of Henry and Mary Noall who was born in 1715, William son of William and Ann born in 1752 and William son of William and Alice born in 1754. I can find no link to these Williams and our Margaret and Sibella however! This is clutching at straws to say the least! As for Richard Noall I have no clue at the moment!! I think the best thing would be to go back another generation and try to link together all these Noall threads! It does seem to have been a commonish name in St Ives back then so I suppose it is equally possible that they're not linked in any way? I think I'm more confused now than I was before! Cathy |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 9, 2012 14:40:30 GMT -5
Cathy - those last two Williams might have witnessed the 1776 marriage of Margaret given they would have been about 24 and 22 respectively ................... but I would find it a little hard to believe that they would have been witnessing the 1766 marriage of Sibella at age 14 and 12!!! As it looks likely that it was the same William involved at both marriages I think we can probably ignore these two. The other problem we have with the Noal, Noale, Noall families is that there may actually be separate families at Lelant and St Ives although they both managed to 'creep across the border'. I have not managed to sort that dilemma as yet.  CT |
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Post by gatp63 on May 15, 2012 1:55:30 GMT -5
Cathy and CT,
Report is that the pre 1850 graves in St Ives are all under buildings next to the church. One housing the research centre!
This gives me hope that the graves may have been recorded. I suppose at some point I need to hop on a train and, as the song goes, Go West Young Man.
Regards,
Glenn
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Post by sue on May 15, 2012 4:28:33 GMT -5
Hobson Matthews' 1892 History of the Parishes of St Ives etc., which is available online as a free download and is an amazing read, explains the history of the burial situation in St Ives. Basically, the St Ia churchyard was full to overflowing in the early 19th century, so burials started to take place in the large grounds of the vicarage across the road, before eventually Barnoon Cemetery was created in the 1850s. There are few surviving headstones in St Ia churchyard, and the situation of the next period, that before the large Barnoon cemetery was created, was something of an emergency one and was not “public” property and the land that was once the vicarage “grounds” has long since changed in its use, parts have been sold off, properties have been built etc. So – and I'm speaking as someone with GGfathers and much family buried in St Ives, so I have several times been round Barnoon, St Ia's churchyard, scoured MI & burial records etc. – I don't think there is any way to even find out the site of the burial plot for the person you're seeking, I'm afraid. I think I would be right in saying that detailed records including plot numbers were something for more the 2nd half of the nineteenth century, which would be needed if there is no surviving legible headstone for a person. Open to correction of course, by someone with detailed knowledge Sue |
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and then yesterday I was able to sort another minor problem with the family of Andrew and Sibella.
