WHITEs of St.Ives,Gulval,Madron.

[davidkingmartin]

Two queries.
Can anyone confirm that Elizabeth A. (Agnes?) White 1863-1933 USA is tha wife,or a wife, of Richard Henry Nicholls 1867-1901 (whose mother is Charity Martin 1847).Richard`s son Joseph perished on the Titanic.Or is the wife Agnes Friggens? . Or both... St Ives area. Or Gulval.
Second:
Seeking confirmation that Jenefer White 1787 is the wife of Richard Rowe 1786, mother of William Rowe 1819 and daughter of Ann Glasson 1762. All of Madron area.
David.

[white]

David.
E mail and 2 files winging its way to you,
Roy White

[Cornish Terrier]

David - in reply to your first question:-

31st May 1886 Ludgvan by Banns
Richard Henry Nicholls, 20, mason, son of Richard Nicholls, mason
Agnes Friggens, 22, spinster, daughter of John Friggens, miner
Witnesses - Alexander Herbert Harrison, Richard Jones

Children:-
Mary Ethel born 1886 Ludgvan
Richard Henry born 1890 Ludgvan
Joseph Charles born 1892 Ludgvan

In 1891 Richard and Agnes were living at Nancledra with the two elder children.

In 1901 Agnes is a widow living at Carbis Bay, Lelant with her three children who are now recorded as being born at Towednack. (Nancledra is pretty much on the Towednack/Ludgvan border)

So the answer is that your US contact is correct.

CT

[davidkingmartin]

Correction.
I mis-worded a posting. My US contact (Carol) insists that "White" is the spouse, not "Friggens", not around the other way. There is considerable evidence from FreeBMD, Census returns (eg 1891,Trezelah,Gulval) and from CT`s and Roy`s databanks and other souces that her WHITE info. is incorrect.Carol`s data comes from her Titanic research so it cannot be dismissed out of hand. This is becoming a bit of a detective story,,,,
Roy: I have passed on your info. to Carol as an e-mail attachment.I can find no evidence for Carol`s findings.
David

[Cornish Terrier]

David – Now that I have a little more information to work with it makes life just a little easier.

After reading your latest I tried a Google Search which has led me to more answers that tend to indicate your US Contact is still wrong. And I am not so sure that it is actually ‘her own’ research given this stuff seems to be plastered all over the Internet.

www.titanic-titanic.com/joseph_charles_nicholls.shtml

This link indicates that ‘Elizabeth Agnes Mary Davies was traveling with her two sons, John Morgan Davies, and Joseph Charles Nicholls, and a family friend, Maude Sincock …..’

This information further states that they were bound for Hancock, Michigan.

www.titanic-facts.com/titanic-passenger-list.html

This link shows a list transcript of the names from the Passenger List which includes:-
Davis, Mrs. Agnes
Davis, Master John M.
Nicholls, Mr. Joseph C.

These have been ‘copied and pasted’ from the site with Agnes and John M highlighted as survivors.

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-survivor/elizabeth-agnes-mary-davies.html

The information in this link contains numerous errors in comparison with the information I have found. It states that Richard Henry was the eldest child of Richard and Agnes Nicholls followed by Mary and then Joseph. However both the Census and the Parish Register show that the eldest child was Mary Ethel born in 1886. Richard Henry was the second child and was born in 1890 followed by Joseph in 1892.

“Agnes subsequently remarried, to a Welshman, Mr John Morgan Davies. She and her children moved with him to live in Cardiff, South Wales where a further son, John Morgan Davis was born. ………….. When John Morgan Davies died she and her family returned to live in St Ives.”

It is also mentioned in this account that Agnes remarried again in Michigan to a Richard Edwards.

And then there are the birth details – “Mrs John Morgan Davies (Elizabeth Agnes Mary White) was born on 23 November 1863 ……. Daughter of Mr John White (?Friggens) …… and his wife Elizabeth. She was sister to John, James, Mary Teresa, Edith E, Josiah Eade and Emily. At the time of the 1881 census she was a dressmaker, living with her family at 17 New Street, Penzance, Cornwall.

You can read most of this for yourself by clicking on the links above.

In my next I will tear a few shreds in this information!

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

David - now time for me to rip a few shreds and try to put the record straight.

And then there are the birth details – “Mrs John Morgan Davies (Elizabeth Agnes Mary White) was born on 23 November 1863 ……. Daughter of Mr John White (?Friggens) …… and his wife Elizabeth. She was sister to John, James, Mary Teresa, Edith E, Josiah Eade and Emily. At the time of the 1881 census she was a dressmaker, living with her family at 17 New Street, Penzance, Cornwall.

WRONG!!

I can find no such record of a birth in Ludgvan or anywhere else to support this statement and in fact I can find no record that is even similar in FreeBMD or the Parish Registers. And I also very much doubt that this family has anything much to do with the story!

Here are some brief details about them:-

John FRIGGENS, Inn Keeper of Gulval, son of William Friggens, farmer married Elizabeth EADE, spinster of New Town 23rd May 1847 at Germoe (Germoe Parish Register)

Margaret Jane bp. 12th September 1847 Ludgvan
Elizabeth Ann bp. 26th January 1851 Ludgvan
John James bp. 24th January 1858 Ludgvan
Josiah Eade bp. 13th November 1859 Ludgvan
Elizabeth Ann bp. 20th July 1862 Ludgvan
Mary Theresa bp. 23rd July 1865 Ludgvan

These baptisms are from FamilySearch and are simply to highlight the names mentioned in the quote above. The entry for Elizabeth Ann in the Ludgvan Parish Register is:-

Elizabeth Ann daughter of John (farmer) and Elizabeth Friggens of Tregarthen baptised 20th July 1862 Ludgvan (born 12th April 1862)

In the 1871 Census John and Elizabeth Friggens were at Tregarthen, Ludgvan, with the above children as well as daughter Emily who was then age 17. (She may have been baptised at Gulval but I have not yet checked).

Elizabeth is recorded as 'Elizabeth An' in this Census - NOT Elizabeth Agnes!

In 1881 the family is at 17 New Street Penzance and John is now a 'carrier' and this information is about all that matches with the quote above. Daughter Elizabeth is simply recorded as 'Elizabeth A'.

In my opinion this is NOT the future wife of Richard Henry Nicholls.

“Agnes subsequently remarried, to a Welshman, Mr John Morgan Davies. She and her children moved with him to live in Cardiff, South Wales where a further son, John Morgan Davis was born. ………….. When John Morgan Davies died she and her family returned to live in St Ives.”

WRONG!!

From FreeBMD

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Davies Robert Penzance 5c 393
Harvey Emily Chirgwin Penzance 5c 393
Kelynack William Beadon Penzance 5c 393
Nicholls Agnes Penzance 5c 393


And from the Halsetown Parish Register:-

John Morgan Davis son of Robert (Insurance Agent) and Agnes Davis of Little-in-Sight (Stennack) baptised 25th August 1903 Halsetown (born July 31st)

So the second husband of Agnes Nicholls was Robert Davies and NOT John Morgan Davies and her son was born in St Ives and NOT in Wales!

And I find it very strange that after being known as Agnes all her life she suddenly becomes Elizabeth Agnes Mary Friggens when the stories of the Titanic begin appearing many years after she has died!

Her grave even reflects that she was 'AGNES EDWARDS'!

At least that is another part of the stories that is correct. FamilySearch has the record of her marriage in 1921:-

Married 10th February 1921 (licence dated same day) at Hancock, Houghton, Michigan
Richard EDWARDS, 41, white, Fireman, son of Richard Edwards and Elizabeth Hosking (born England)
Mrs Agnes DAVIS, 53, white, maiden name not known, previously married twice

Another post to follow in which I will try to piece together a time-line for Agnes Friggens.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

David - it has taken many hours searching but here is what I now have for Agnes Friggens.

There are still some unanswered questions but I believe that Agnes was illegitimate as should be apparent from the information to follow. Unfortunately I have not been able to find a Birth Record for her in FreeBMD but I do have enough information to suggest that I have identified her correctly.

Certainly more correctly than the authors of all the Titanic Biographies that are prevalent on the Internet!

I will commence with the record of her first marriage which is taken from the Ludgvan Parish Register.

31st May 1886 Ludgvan by Banns
Richard Henry NICHOLLS, age 20, bachelor, mason of Ludgvan, son of Richard Nicholls, mason
Agnes FRIGGENS, age 22, spinster of Ludgvan, daughter of John Friggens, miner
Witnesses - Alexander Herbert Harrison, Richard Jones

1891 Census
Nancledra, Ludgvan
Richard H NICHOLLS, head, mar, 25, mason, Ludgvan
Agnes do., wife, mar, 27, Penzance
Mary E do., daur, 4, Ludgvan
Richard H do., son, 9 mo, Ludgvan

1901 Census
Carbis Bay, Lelant
Agnes NICHOLLS, head, widow, 37, Penzance
Mary E do., daur, 14, Towednack
Richard Henry do., son, 10, Towednack
Joseph Charles do., son, 8, Towednack

March Qtr 1903
Penzance R.D. Vol 5c Page 393
Robert DAVIES
Agnes NICHOLLS

John Morgan DAVIS son of Robert (Insurance Agent) and Agnes Davis of Little-in-Sight (Stennack) baptised 25th August 1903 (born July 31st)

1920 Census
Hancock City, Houghton, Michigan
Water Street
Agnes DAVIS, head, widow, age 55, born England, arrived 1912
John M DAVIS, son, age 16, born England, arrived 1912

All of that was the easy part and I had to spend a lot of time and effort to find the rest of the pieces to this puzzle.

We know from the above records that Agnes was born sometime during the early to mid 1860s. Penzance is recorded twice as her birthplace - 1891 and 1901 Census - but that 'may be' just a broad term for where she was actually born.
However, this information told me that she had to be somewhere in both 1871 and 1881 and I eventually found her as follows:-

1871 Census Zennor
Dinah WHITE, head, widow, 50, Ludgvan
Clarinda do., daur, unm, 21, Towednack
William do., son, unm, 19, tin miner, Towednack
Thomas do., son, unm, 17, tin miner, Towednack
Richard N do., son, 14, tin miner, Towednack
Mary Ann do., daur, 12, scholar, Towednack
Agnis FRGGENS, Boarder, 9, Towednack

Perhaps this is where the name WHITE entered the picture but it is almost certainly the future wife of Richard Henry Nicholls.

Note that the surname appears as FRGGENS which is why she was so hard to find!

1881 Census
New Mill, Madron
Dinah WHITE, head, wid., 61, Charwoman, Gulval
Agnes WHITE, grandaughter, unm, 19, Charwoman, Gulval

This is obviously the same girl who was with Dinah in 1871 but notice she is now recorded as Agnes WHITE and her birthplace is Gulval.

With the help of FamilySearch I then tracked down the following:-

Gulval Parish Register
Agnes illegitimate daughter of Grace FRIGGENS of Trezelah baptised 2nd April 1873 Gulval age 11 years

This entry does not appear in FreeBMD and in fact Agnes does not appear in FreeBMD under any name.

I suggest that you pass all of this information to Carole. If required then I can supply copies of most of these records as proof.

I believe that this proves the previous information (as found on the Internet) is wrong beyond any reasonable doubt.
But unfortunately the puzzle does not entirely end there.

The problem is now to identify Grace Friggens!
Agnes is recorded as a grandaughter to Dinah White in the 1881 Census but I am yet to find a daughter named Grace for Dinah.

Henry WHITE married Dinah ROWE at Ludgvan 13th April 1843

Henry was baptised at Zennor 12th December 1819 son of Thomas and Elizabeth (nee Matthews) White of Bosigran
Dinah was baptised at Ludgvan 11th June 1820 daughter of John and Jennifer/Jane (nee Nicholas) Rowe

I have identified some children for them but have yet to check the registers and add them to my database.

CT

[davidkingmartin]

Thanks,CT.
I am aware if the Titanic web links that have been passed to me from my US contact.I have urged her (Carol) to visit P Genealogy and put her case but I have to respect her privacy. She manages a Tree on Ancestry under the title "Sincock" but it is "private". (I have been given access to it).
I have also been sent a powerpoint presentation of hers featuring some of the persons mentioned but I am not to make available the content.
Carol is about to give some lectures on the subject....she teaches genealogy to elementary school children.
David

[Cornish Terrier]

David - perhaps the final 'nail in the coffin' for the Titanic information.

To try and be certain of the identity of the wife of Richard Henry Nicholls I decided to trace the family of John and Elizabeth Friggens through the 1891 Census. We have them at Penzance in 1881 but that was five years before the marriage of Richard Henry Nicholls.

Once again I had some difficulty but I have managed, I think, to find the answers!

I could not find John Friggens and now believe that he died sometime between 1881 and 1891. (Will have a look for him shortly) Meantime I think the best way to explain this is to outline the family so that I can show what happened to each of the children.

As per previous posts John Friggens married Elizabeth Eade at Germoe 23rd May 1847

The children:-

Margaret Jane bp. 12th September 1847 Ludgvan
Grace bp. 24th June 1849 Gulval and buried 5th October 1855 Ludgvan
Elizabeth Ann bp. 26th January 1851 Ludgvan and buried 12th October 1855 Ludgvan
Emily Catherine born c.1853 Ludgvan
John James bp. 24th January 1858 Ludgvan
Josiah Eade bp. 13th November 1859 Ludgvan (born 21st October) and buried 13th July 1878 Penzance
Elizabeth Ann bp. 20th July 1862 Ludgvan (born 12th April)
Mary Theresa bp. 23rd July 1865 Ludgvan (born 17th April)

To find the family in the 1891 Census was proving a challenge so I resorted to FreeBMD to try and find what happened to the surviving children. First one I found was:-

Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowdon William Ambrose Plymouth 5b 440
Drake Mary Emily Plymouth 5b 440
Friggens Mary Theresa Plymouth 5b 440
McNevenduff William James Plymouth 5b 440

This last name, McNevenduff, is a strange one This marriage is the only occurrence of the name in FreeBMD from 1837 to 1930! And even though it is quite clear in the image I have to wonder about it.

I have not been able to find Mary in 1891 and nore can I find her and her husband in 1901 but it is most interesting that she married in Plymouth! Could it be a clue???

Margaret Jane - no further reference found in FreeBMD
Emily Catherine - an illegitimate daughter, Emily Edith, was baptised at St Ives Primitive Methodist Circuit 12th April 1875 but no further record of Emily can be found at the moment.
John James - appears to have married either Mary Louisa James or Martha Harriet Stevens in 1890 (Penzance R.D.) but immediately disappears.

And that then brings me to Elizabeth Ann!

Searching for Frigg?ns marriages in FreeBMD showed no likely match for Elizabeth Ann Friggens ................................... BUT!

Marriages Jun 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BALL John Plymouth 5b 472
FRIGGENS Annie Elizabeth Plymouth 5b 472
Horn Emma Eliza L Plymouth 5b 472
MULFORD James Plymouth 5b 472

Here's Plymouth again along with a name that is suspiciously close to what I was looking for!

I then turned to the Census and lo and behold:-

1891 Census
404 Smeaton Ter, St Andrew, Plymouth
James MULFORD, head, mar, 35, Sergt. Royal Marines, N. Petherton, Somerset
Annie Elizth. do., wife, mar, 26, Ludgvan, Cornwall
Elizabeth EDE, mother-in-law, wid., 66, Germoe, Cornwall

Here we have Elizabeth Ann Friggens with her Christian names reversed married to James Mulford and living at Plymouth. But even better is that her mother is also with her albeit now recorded under her maiden name!! ;D

That then now confirms that the information from the Titanic research as found on the Internet is INCORRECT!

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

I had best throw in this little 'gem' that I just found in one of the Ancestry Online Trees.

This appears to be one of the few actual believable facts that can sometimes be found and it includes witnesses:-

30th June 1890 - Charles Parish Church, Plymouth
James MULFORD and Elizabeth Ann (Annie Elizabeth) FRIGGENS
Witnesses - Mary Theresa Friggens, John James Friggens

That should definitely put it beyond any doubt!

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

And now I am reasonably confident that I have identified the mother of Agnes Friggens!

But first to dispel an anomaly!
In the marriage record the father of Agnes Friggens is recorded as John Friggens and I am now quite sure that this is incorrect.
As is often the case where an illegitimate child is concerned a father's name is entered on the marriage record even if that name is wrong. It may be a case of 'saving face' or sometimes simply not knowing but feeling compelled to enter a name.

In this case I believe I have shown ample evidence that Agnes was indeed illegitimate and that she was, as the Gulval records show, the illegitimate daughter of Grace Friggens of Trezelah.

Agnes was baptised in 1863 but in 1871 was recorded as a 'boarder' in the household of Dinah White.
In 1881 Agnes was still in the household of Dinah White but this time recorded as a grandaughter.

So again we have confusing information!

I have searched the records to piece together the family of Henry and Dinah White and there is no daughter named Grace. In fact there is no child of Henry and Dinah who it seems possible could have been the parent of Agnes.

It appears in fact that Agnes was 'more or less' adopted by Dinah after having been left with her at a very young age.
According to the 1871 Census Dinah White was widowed sometime within the previous ten years although it does not appear that Henry died in England. At that time she had several of her children at home with the youngest being age 12. Also with her was Agnes Friggens age 9.
By 1881 all of her own children were gone and Dinah was living at New Mill, Madron with the only other person in the household being Agnes who was now enumerated as Agnes White and recorded as Dinah's grandaughter.

In 1886 Agnes married Richard Henry Nicholls stating her father was John Friggens.

As previously stated Agnes Friggens was baptised at Gulval 2nd April 1873 at the age of 11 and was recorded as the 'illegitimate daughter of Grace Friggens of Trezelah'.

I suspect that it must have been Dinah White who had the child baptised.

But who was Grace Friggens ...................... and what happened to her?

Well, I believe that I can now answer that question! ;D

In 1861 the only Grace Friggens at Trezela was the daughter of James Friggens, a farmer of Trezela. She was then age 19 and living at home with her father and four siblings along with his father's second wife. The wife was recorded as 'Lenora' although her name was actually Loveday. There were also two children from this second marriage as well as Richard S Woolcock who was an illegitimate son of Loveday.

But after this Grace seemed to disappear. But tonight I managed to find her again!

FreeBMD shows that Thomas VICTOR and Grace FRIGGENS were married in the Penzance R.D. in the March Qtr of 1864. It seems that this must be another Registry Office Marriage so I do not have the record.

There were two children from this marriage:-

Thomas son of Thomas and Grace Victor of Sellan baptised 14th September 1867 at Sancreed. He was actually born in 1865 and died age 2 a couple of months after being baptised.
John son of Thomas and Grace Victor was born 9th April 1867 and baptised at Paul 12th January 1868.

And then this family disappeared!

A check of Immigration records very quickly found them though! ;D

Thomas Victor age 39, Grace Victor age 28 and John Victor age 1 arrived in New York 29th January 1869 aboard the 'Australasian'.

I have not been able to find them in the 1870 Census but by 1880 they were living in Caseyville, St Clair County, Illinois and now had another son, Burnette Victor, age 10.

Grace Victor died at 800 S, 8th Street, St Louis, Missouri on May 30th 1893 at the age of 49. She was buried at Caseyville but no date is recorded on the Death Certificate.

Her son John died in Chicago on August 12th 1935. The Death record shows his father as Thomas Victor and his mother as Grace TRIGGANS.

The only thing I don't know now is why Grace left her daughter with the White family.

One further point - IF the father of Agnes Friggens was indeed a John Friggens then the most likely candidate at this point would be Grace's cousin John son of William and Elizabeth Tresise Friggens of Trezela.

CT

[pmac]

Just a wild thought outside the box, but what if the John Friggens was actually her Brother?? The 1851 census shows she had a brother John aged 5...So add 12 years to him and?.It's a wild thought I know but could explain why she left home and boarded elsewhere maybe and left the child with someone else?. Not entirely an unheard of senario and all sorts of repercussions if she stayed.

[sue]

I'd be betting that incest is the one scenario where you can be pretty sure the father wouldn't be truthfully declared on official documents - and indeed, I bet the individual themselves wouldn't be told the truth .....

This work on Agnes et al by CT sure makes sense, so looks like there's been some unfortunate replicating of slip-ups/misinformation on websites re these Cornish Titanic individuals.

Sue

[davidkingmartin]

For the record, my interest in this thread is multi-faceted:
Trezelah: I lived there for 6 yrs as a small child during which time my journalist father "covered" the sinking of the "Flying Enterprise" off the Cornish coast.
My late mother was a survivor of the Athenia sinking,Sept.1939, N Atlantic. Not an iceberg. A U-Boat.
Charity Martin 1847 and her "link" to Richard Nicholls/Agnes.
My father edited "Ships Monthly" mag.for some years.
David

[Cornish Terrier]

David - but are you happy with the outcome?

And are you passing this information to your US contact?

If so then I would like to know the reaction/response.

CT