Hi Canada1, I think you will find a distant connection to Tonymitch. If I have the correct family Sarah Jane was the daughter of Mary Prowse ( she was the widow of William Grenfell Payne when she married John Warren Stone) Mary Prowse's brother William Harris Prowse married Lavinia Mitchell.
You dont say how much detail you already have so shout if you want us to fill in for you.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 13, 2012 7:59:11 GMT -5
If I have the correct family Sarah Jane was the daughter of Mary Prowse ( she was the widow of William Grenfell Payne when she married John Warren Stone) Mary Prowse's brother William Harris Prowse married Lavinia Mitchell.
Londoner - I beg to differ!
William Harris Prowse was the son of John Prowse and Mary Harris whose daughter Mary, William's sister, was baptised at St Buryan 18th June 1826.
But Mary was not the mother of Sarah Jane Prowse!
St Buryan Parish Register - Marriages
1st June 1850 by Banns Richard BOTHERAS, bachelor, labourer of Selena, son of John Botheras Mary PROWSE, spinster of Rosemodrass, daughter of John Prowse, labourer Witnesses - John Prowse, William Thomas
I have just pieced together the family of John and Mary Prowse and located marriages for all of their children except for the last child, Benjamin, who died as an infant.
In the 1851 Census you can find Richard and Mary Botheras at Choon, St Buryan with Mary's age recorded as 24. Also with them is son William age 5 months.
Also in 1851 at St Buryan Churchtown Mary PROWSE, head, unm, 27, dressmaker, St Buryan Sarah Jane do., daur, 8, St Buryan Edwin do., son, 6, St Buryan Mary H do., daur, 1, St Buryan Elizabeth HUTCHENS, lodger, unm, 23, plain sewer, St Buryan Mary L do., lodger, 1, St Buryan
This Mary was one of two baptised at St Buryan in 1823:-
Mary d/o Robert and Grace Prowse of Selena bp. 16th March 1823 St Buryan Mary d/o Robert and Mary Prowse of Church Town bp. 12th October 1823 St Buryan
And by process of elmination she must have been the latter.
Robert and Grace Prowse were at Brea in St Just by 1841 and Mary Prowse of Brea, daughter of Robert, married William Tonkin at St Just 1st November 1847.
So the parents of Mary Prowse (grandparents of Sarah Jane) were Robert Prowse and Mary George who married 19th November 1808 at St Buryan.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 14, 2012 7:14:17 GMT -5
If anyone has done any research on William Grenfell Payne I would be interested to hear what has been found.
I just spent much of this afternoon and evening trying to track him down after a night of frustration last night which ended with nothing at all being found prior to his marriage. Except that he was a boarder in the Prowse household just prior to his marriage to Sarah Jane Prowse in 1861.
The work I have done today has identified some probable connections but I would like to hear what others have to say before I make too much comment.
Re William Grenfell Payne. Obviously some connection to the Grenfell family, which I have not yet pursued. He born 1842, St.Buryan (son of another William Grenfell Payne) First husband of Sarah Jane Prowse (married 13 may 1861 St.B) Buried 12 may 1871 St.B. W.G.Payne (the third) born 1869 married Mary Ellen Wallish 1869 The only child I have for these, Joseph Sydney Grenfell Payne, born 1897 married Lily Kate G Archibald. Wouldlike to find the Grenfell connection. RW
After reading your post I thought I'd try to find some information on William Grenfell Payne. First, I could not find anything on him prior to 1861 either. Then I found the following in the 1851 Free census:
Fair St., St. Columb Major; Folio 328; p 1; Schedule 3:
Payne, Glanvill, Head, Married, 38, Ag. Lab., born Cornwall, St. Columb Payne, Elizabeth Wife, 38, born Cornwall, Burraton, Payne, Mary Ann, Daughter, 10, Scholar, born Cornwall, Burraton Payne, Glanvill, Son, 8, Scholar, born Cornwall, Burraton Payne, Joseph, Son, 5, Scholar, born Cornwall, St. Columb Major Payne, Ruth, Daughter, 2, born Cornwall, St. Column Major
I think that Burraton should be Buryan as I could find a baptism at St. Buryan on 9 Feb 1840 for Mary Ann Payne d/o Grandfield (Labourer) and Betsy Payne of Church Town.
At St. Buryan on 27 Jan 1838 , Granfield Payne, bachelor of Boskenna (father Granfield Payne, Labourer) married Betsy Stone of Church Town (father William Stone, Labourer).
Elizabeth Stone was baptised at St. Buryan on 7 June 1812 d/o William and Mary Stone.
On Free Census 1881 I could find the following:
RG11/2926; Folio 12; p 18; Schedule 106: living at Halveor Lane, St. Columb -
Payne, Glanville, Head, Married, 69, Ag. Lab, born Cornwall, St. Columb Payne, Betsy, Wife, Married, 71, born Cornwall, St. Buryan
Hope to have been of some help
NICHOLLS-Madron,Zennor,Gulval; THOMAS/CHRISTOPHER/DAVY-Zennor; QUICK-Towednack; JENKIN/POOLEY/LEGGO-Madron; NICHOLLS-Penzance; HILL/CALF/JAGO/FORD-St. Michael's Mount, St. Hilary; BURGE-Breage, Wendron; TUCKER-Wendron; HARVEY/DREW/PEZZACK/TREMBATH/PENDER/PENTREATH/McCLARY/BLEWETT-Mousehole, Paul; BATTEN/JOHNS/ROUFFIGNAC/PADDY/JAMES/SIMONS/WRIGHT/MANN-Newlyn, Paul; OATS-St. Just
William Bayne 25 Elizabeth Bayne 25 Sophia Bayne 3 Mary Bayne 1
This believe it or not is them in 1841 at Churchtown, St Buryan. the age of Mary Ann in 1851 has been transcribed incorrectly it should be 10. the opc has a baptism: 9 Feb 1840 St Buryan of Mary Ann to Grandfield & Betsy
FS has marriage of Sophia d/o Glanvill to Joseph Knight at Cubert 15 Nov 1856, and Joseph s/o Glanvill bap 30 Jun 1846 at St Columb
looks like we are overlapping on our posts!
Last Edit: Feb 14, 2012 9:23:53 GMT -5 by londoner
Sorry Folks.....no Stones in my family. A few Prowses (various spellings) and even one William Weymouth AKA John Prowse. He is listed as William Weymouth Prowse at the baptism of his children (all 10 of them)....So My friend Canada 1 if you stumble across John Prowse remember...he could be William Weymouth.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 14, 2012 16:06:21 GMT -5
Well then - it seems that each of you has found something that I was previously unable to find!
I did not find the FreeBMD record for Glanvil Payne's birth but that was probably because I was looking for William. Although I did have a search just for Payne born Penzance R.D. but obviously did not look quite far enough.
I also could not find the 1851 Census record but even armed with Londoner's information I still had problems. That would be because I decided to try a search for 'Payne' born 'Burian' having earlier unsuccessfully tried for 'Payne' born 'Buryan'. But even then the Ancestry transcriber could only come up with ??, Cornwall as the birthplace. And looking at the original I can see why! I think that if I had looked at this one (without knowing better) the best I might come up with would be Burniair given the way it is written.
And then there is the marriage of Sophia which I also did not find.
But St Columb and Glanville Payne is exactly where I was heading with the identity of William Grenfell Payne so this has proved a useful excercise.
It also reminds me of a film that I enjoy watching every now and again .... MURDER BY DEATH! ;D
I am sure many of you will know that one with Peter Sellers in a story where the World's greatest detectives are brought together to solve an as yet uncommitted murder!
No murder in this one but we had the detectives all involved to try and solve the puzzle.
So thank you all for your input. I will read this all again tonight and build on the skeletal picture I had already formed after which I think I may need to try and get hold of some St Columb records to see if I can find where Glanville/Granfield Payne leads.
I don't know that it will end up at St Just with the Grenfell family though. The name has appeared variously as Glanville, Granfield and then Grenfell so I suspect the latter may have been more just a 'localising' of the name rather than anything else.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 15, 2012 3:35:22 GMT -5
Re William Grenfell Payne. Obviously some connection to the Grenfell family, which I have not yet pursued.
Roy - as I said in my last this may have been simply a localisation of the name. The birth of WGP was registered as Granvile Payne and although his father apparently could not write he was recorded as Granfield Payne when he married Betsy Stone at St Buryan 27th January 1838. In 1841 we find William Payne at St Buryan with his wife and two daughters. (It was transcribed as Bayne in Ancestry but I have submitted a correction.) This appears to be the first time the name William appears. Later Census records show the father of WGP as Glanvill(e) so it seems strange that he was recorded as William at all.
According to the 1851 Census Glanvill Payne was born at St Columb about 1812 although I have not yet found his baptism. A sister, Sophia Pain, was baptised at St Columb Major 18th August 1816 daughter of Granfield and Mary.
And I have now found the marriage in Phillimore and then in the St Columb Major register:-
Grandfield Pain, yeoman, and Mary Truscott, spinster, both of the Parish, were married by Banns 14th May 1805 at St Columb Major Witnesses - James Truscott, John Truscott, Wm Bond
And it should be noted that the Groom signed his own name - Grandfield Pain.
The earliest records of the name that I have found so far date back to 1697 at St Issey where Elizabeth daughter of Grenvill and Jane Paine was baptised.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 15, 2012 7:55:20 GMT -5
The 1861 and 1871 Census provide us with something else of interest.
1861 Higher Halveor, St Columb Major Glanville KAINE, head, mar, 50, agricultural labourer, Cornwall, St Columb Major Betsey do., wife, mar, 49, Cornwall, Buryan Ruth do., daur, 11, scholar, Cornwall, St Columb Major William H do., granson, 3, Cornwall, St Columb Major
So who is this grandson?
1871 No 18 Halveor Lane, St Columb Major Glanville PAIN, head, mar, 59, labourer, St Columb Betsy do., wife, mar, 58, labourer's wife, Buryan, Penzance Joseph do., son, unm, 24, miner, St Columb William H COTTON, gnd son, unm, 14, scholar, St Columb
So far I have been unable to find a baptism record for young William but a search of FreeBMD gives a possible answer to his identity.
September Qtr 1861 Penzance R.D. Vol 5c Page 543 John COTTON Mary PAYNE Grace PEARCE William ROSKILLY
In 1861 Maryann Payne was at St Buryan :-
Churchtown Richard CARNE, head, mar, 40, Ag Lab, St Buryan Maryann do., wife, mar, 40, St Buryan William STONE, father in law, widr, 70, Ag Lab, St Buryan Maryann PAYNE, visitor, unm, 22, seamstress, St Buryan
Unfortunately I cannot find the Cotton family in 1871 but it does appear that she must be the mother of William H Payne/Cotton.