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Post by cathy on Jan 19, 2012 14:56:22 GMT -5
Thank you for that, I have now found FamilySearch!
I have been stuck for years on the marriage and death of my Great Grandfather in South Africa, he was called John Magor and I believe came from Gwennap however I can't quite tally up the details. The story goes that he met my Great Grandmother (Christiana Lawry) on the ship on the way to South Africa in 1907, where they married and had two children before returning to St Just after John died in 1913 or thereabouts. Any ideas of how I can trace his death, marriage and the birth of his two children would be pure gold as I really am up against a brick wall!
Many thanks for all your help,
Cathy
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 19, 2012 21:02:38 GMT -5
Cathy, Any chance one of those children might have been EDITH? FreeBMD shows a birth registered in the September Qtr of 1911 for Edith MAGOR whose mother's maiden name was LAWRY. If Edith is one of yours then it might open up an avenue or three for you.  And given I cannot find any marriage for MAGOR-LAWRY in FreeBMD I am thinking this might be a good start. I have also now had a look at the UK Outbound Passenger Lists through FindMyPast. Unfortunately I am not subscribed to them and can only see the index but we do have one or two members who may be able to do a lookup for us if we find something that looks promising.  There are two possible entries that might be John MAGOR:- J Magor born about 1869 departed Southampton in 1905 bound for The Cape J Magor born about 1868 departed Southampton in 1908 bound for The Cape I would suggest these are very likely the same person. Christiana Lawry born about 1881 departed Plymouth in 1907 bound for The Cape This one would seem to confirm at least some of the information you have provided although it would appear that they may not have actually travelled together. If someone is able to check these records for us we may find some travelling companions or other information that might offer some more clues. Next thing was to see if I could find something in South Africa and Ancestry24 has provided the following record:- Collection: Transvaal Deceased Estates Index 1855 - 1976 Surname - MAGOR First Name - John Date of Death - 19120000 Passport Number - 351807 Source Location - National Archives, Pretoria (TAB) Reference - 19936 Source - Master of the Supreme Court, Pretoria (MHG) With this information you should be able to order copies of the relevent documents which should give you some quite useful information.  Now then - a search of the NAAIRS site (part of the National Archives of South Africa) I can confirm that the above is your John Magor. National Archives of South Africa (NASA) Database: National Archives Repository (Public Records of former Transvaal Province and its predecessors as well as of magistrates and local authorities) NAAIRS - Result Details DEPOT TAB SOURCE MHG TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 0 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 19936 PART 1 DESCRIPTION MAGOR, JOHN. STARTING 19120000 ENDING 19120000 REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE CHRISTIANA MAGOR. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 15:43:28 GMT -5
Ask nicely and you shall receive! I have received copies of the relevant passenger lists mentioned above and the first one I looked at highlights yet another transcription error!  The 'J Magor' travelling from Southampton to The Cape in 1908 was not 'J Magor' at all  he was, in fact, W J Magor!  So that, I should think, is him out of the equation! And 'Mr J Magor' in 1905 was a 'Trader'. There is nothing in your message about your ancestor's occupation but reading between the lines I don't think he would have been a Trader. I get the impression that he was more likely a labourer of some sort and probably a miner. That brings me to the passenger list for the 'Salamis' which sailed from Plymouth 1st September 1907 bound for Sydney, NSW via South Africa. Passenger number 131 was one Miss Christiana Lawry, a domestic, age 26, bound for Capetown. Most interesting is passenger number 134 - one JOHN MAJOR, a miner, age 26, also bound for Capetown. Although his name is spelt slightly differently it would appear that this might be the man you are looking for. And if so then it confirms the story you mentioned. CT |
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Post by cathy on Jan 20, 2012 15:56:35 GMT -5
Thank you for going to such a lot of trouble for me!! I have to admit I had reached most of the same conclusions as you and agree with the Salamis suggestion, it appears very likely that is where they met and that the spelling of Magor was incorrect.
My stumbling point here is how to trace John's parents. Given that he married, had children and died in South Africa and all in the space of 7 years I am at a loss as to how to nail down his family at home?? Any suggestions would be gratefully received!
I made contact with the South African records office last year however they were unwilling to locate the relevant records, even when I gave them the info that you so kindly located which seems to give references etc.
Sorry, this post should probably be elsewhere - I've hijacked the St Ives pages!!
Thank you again CT for all your researching - you are a star!!
Cathy
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 16:04:56 GMT -5
I wonder if the pieces just maybe starting to fall into place!  But first a question - what prompted you to suggest that John Magor might have been from Gwennap? If you are correct about his origins then it looks like much of what you had heard might be correct - most unusual! We now have Christiana Lawry on a Passenger Record leaving for South Africa in September 1907. On that same ship is a John MAJOR age 26 who was also heading for South Africa. He was a miner so could have been from just about anywhere in Cornwall but you have information that he might have been from Gwennap. At age 26 in 1907 John Major would have been born around 1880 or 1881. Out of curiosity I decided to have a look at the 1901 Census to see what might be found and up popped this little hand with a note saying 'pick me, pick me'! ;D 1901 Census Pennance, Gwennap Nanny MAGOR, head, wid, 56, Gwennap John do., son, unm., 20, tin miner, GwennapThis encouraged me to take a look at 1891 where I found:- 1891 Census Pennance, Gwennap Nanny MAGOR, head, widow, 46, Gwennap Samuel do., son, single, 20, tin miner, Gwennap David do., son, single, 18, tin miner, Gwennap Christopher do., son, 16, tin miner, Gwennap Minnie do., daur, 14, shoe maker apprentice, Gwennap John do., son, 10, scholar, GwennapRight place, right time and a very good candidate to be your man. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 16:13:09 GMT -5
Cathy - I will look at possibly moving the conversation to somewhere more appropriate a little later. Meantime - I have just followed up on the Census by looking at 1881 where I have found the family living at Lanner Hill, Gwennap. Nanny was again head of the household but she is recorded as married. It is possible that she was recently widowed but it seems likely that her husband was merely not at home on Census night as her youngest child, son John, was just one month old. There was also one further child in the family who was not in the later Census - daughter Annie age 15. And now to check my recently acquired Gwennap records to see if I can find some records for the family. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 16:42:21 GMT -5
All things being fair and equal I think it very likely the right John Magor has been identified. We still have some work to do to confirm it but it does look promising. I now know the name of his father from the 1871 Census and with the help of FreeBMD I can tell you that:- John MAGOR married Nanny INGRAM December Qtr 1865 Redruth Registration District Volume 5c Page 476 I have not been able to find this marriage so far in my records and nor have I been able to find baptisms for any of the children as yet. That means it is a good chance these events were Non-conformist although it is possible the marriage took place in the Registry Office.  John Magor was born at Redruth about 1844 and nanny Ingram at Gwennap around 1844. BTW - I had to fiddle around to find them in 1871 as they were transcribed as MAGWD! But I have also now just received news from the 1911 Census which shows that Nanny was widowed and living at Pennance, Lanner, Gwennap with her unmarried daughter Mary Catherine (Minnie). CT |
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Post by cathy on Jan 20, 2012 16:43:42 GMT -5
The Gwennap link comes from family folklore really, various relatives over the years giving the same info! John was indeed a Miner and so the records look good. I had come to the same conclusion with Nanny Magor but can't prove it. I am really cheered up that you agree with my hunch though! How do I go about proving this? Is there a better way of obtaining records from South Africa or should I assume Nanny's family to be mine? Questions questions!! Is there a way of obtaining obituaries online, perhaps I could prove it that way? Cathy |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 16:49:56 GMT -5
As John Magor was born at Redruth (according to the 1861 Census) I think this is the most appropriate place for this thread.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 16:52:30 GMT -5
There may be a way! I have been in contact with people in South Africa in the past and received some help. I will need to check some of those old contacts and make sure they are in the right area but with a bit of luck I may be able to find someone who will help. Meantime I am about to try and move this conversation to the Redruth section given that is where John Magor senior is supposed to have been born. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 17:11:02 GMT -5
Courtesy of the OPC site I have just found John Magor! John son of John (miner) and Nanny MAJOR of Lannarth baptised 14th July 1881 at Lanner (Lannarth) (born 27th February 1881 Once again his surname has been mis-spelled. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2012 17:21:40 GMT -5
Cathy - I have just sent off a lookup request to one of my contacts in South Africa.
Hopefully Sha can help but if not she should be able to point me in the right direction.
CT
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Post by cathy on Jan 21, 2012 14:52:58 GMT -5
I am amazed by how helpful you are, don't know how to say thank you enough!! Thank you. I'm off to look at those records....
Thank you for all your help!
Cathy
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2012 23:13:20 GMT -5
Always a pleasure Cathy. Some of this helps me as well in a few different ways even though I am not connected. I don't know how long it might be before I hear something from Sha in South Africa but I will let you know as soon as I do. CT |
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Post by cathy on Jan 25, 2012 14:45:33 GMT -5
Right, I'm taking this branch of the tree a little further back now and was wondering if anyone is having the same problem as me?
I have Simon and Grace Magor on the 1851 Census as follows:
Simon, Head, born Gwennap, age 42, Copper Miner
Grace, wife, born Redruth, age 44
Mary Jane, dau, born Redruth, age 22
Grace, dau, born Gwennap, age 17
Elizabeth, dau, born Gwennap, age 15
Ann, dau, born Gwennap, age 12
John, son, born Redruth, age 6 (this being the John Magor that later marries Nanny as we discussed above - or so I believe!!)
Simon, son, born Redruth, age 4
William, son, born Redruth, age 2
I cannot find them on the 1841 Census and cannot work out whether they also have a son called Thomas, born pre 1833 as I found a baptism dated 1833!
I have spent a lot of time following a false trail where I thought Simon married Grace Rilph however when I compared their dob and the fact that Grace would have had a child aged nearly 60 I realised I had gone wrong somewhere! I now think there are two couples called Simon and Grace and that the ones I need are Simon And Grace Riddle, married 23/9/1828 at Gwennap.
So, can anyone verify that I am now on the right track? I can't find a baptism for Simon and I am struggling to find Grace althoough I believe Simon's parents may be William and Mary Magor while the only likely reference I have found for Grace is her baptism 18/2/1810 where her parents are listed as Susanna Riddle (possibly nee Woolf but that really is spurious!!).
Here's hoping someone is researching the same areas as me!!
Cathy
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he was, in fact, W J Magor! 
