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Post by pgilbart on Jan 5, 2012 9:21:06 GMT -5
I am looking for information on my ancestor Thomas James Gilbart, born 13 June 1815 in St. Erth, married to Mary Jane Rogers. I believe Thomas' parents were John Gilbart b 1760 and Elizabeth Huthnance.
Thomas and "Jane" are on the 1851, 61 and 71 census records at Tremelling House. In 1881, Upper Tremelling is empty. On the census I found Thomas and Jane's children (grown) at other locations with inlaws and other relatives (James William to an aunt, his wife and children at her parents, Annie Maria married to George Lane, Thomas Trewhella with inlaws).
In 1882, Annie Lane moved to Ontario with her family and her mother Jane, but I can't find what happened to her father Thomas James Gilbart.
There is a reference in my grandmothers papers that rumors Thomas "took to drink and left his wife". Any info?
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Post by pgilbart on Jan 5, 2012 9:48:32 GMT -5
My great grandfather James William Gilbart (born in St. Erth 1856 to Thomas and Mary Jane Rogers) emigrated from Cornwall in 1882 with his wife and 3 children. The next references I found are several children born to him (wife Mary Jane Polkinghorne) in Missouri. He is a "farmer" on the birth forms.
Most of the 1890 US Census was destroyed by fire apparently, so the next census I find him on is 1900 in Ansonia, Connecticut working at a Copper and Brass factory. Does anyone have information on this family? Did they have a land grant of some kind in Missouri? What did they farm and did they leave because the farm failed?
Also, Mary Jane passed away in 1912 and James W. remarried someone named Emma (b. abt 1848) before 1920 (perhaps in Ansonia, CT). Any information on her would be appreciated.
FYI: There is another James William Gilbart born 1857 who emigrated to Canada 1879 and has a whole bunch of descendants. This is not "my" James William - perhaps a cousin?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2012 12:06:10 GMT -5
Well then, it would appear that you have found your way to the right place! The mother of James William Gilbart was not Mary Jane Rogers - she was in fact just plain Jane Rogers. And she just happens to be part of one of my Trewhella families! ;D Jane Rogers was baptised at St Erth 26th May 1822 daughter of James Rogers and Jane Trewheela who were married at St Erth 16th September 1820. Jane married Thomas Gilbart 28th December 1847 at St Erth with Thomas having been born at St Erth 13th June 1815 (baptised at Helston 6th August 1815) son of John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance. James William was the third of four children that I know of for Thomas and Jane Gilbart. He had elder sisters Elizabeth Jane and Anna Maria and a younger brother Thomas Trewhella Gilbart. That would appear to be a good start and I will try to find a little more to help answer your questions a little later on. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2012 12:16:56 GMT -5
And a lilttle more. James William Gilbert married Mary Jane Martin Polkinghorne at Phillack 25th December 1877. At the time of the marriage he was recorded as a farmer of St Gennys which is right up on the North Coast. Thomas Trewhella Gilbert/Gilbart was married in that area with the Banns for his marriage being read at St Gennys. Witnesses to the marriage of James and Mary were Thomas Polkinghorne (her father I think) and Annie Maria Lane who may possibly have been one of the two elder sisters of James. In fact Annie Maria Gilbert married George Lane in 1873 in the Camelford Registration District. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2012 12:31:41 GMT -5
Looks like we have two threads working on the same topic now. I will look at this again tomorrow and try to work the two into one so that things do not get too confusing. Meanwhile - it seems some of these people have picked up extra Christian names along the way! 'Thomas James' was actually just plain Thomas Gilbart when he was born/baptised just as 'Mary Jane' was just Jane Rogers. I don't yet know what happened to Thomas but now that you tell me Jane went to Canada with her daughter it might help me find out. More work for me tomorrow unless I have other interruptions but I am sure we will be able to find the answers. CT
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Post by pgilbart on Jan 5, 2012 16:08:06 GMT -5
Thank you! You've already given me several facts I did not have! So James William was farming in 1877 -- thank you for that! -- and then in the 1881 Census I found him living with his mother's sister's family (Mary S. Rogers, married name Ivey) and is an "unemployed farmer". Something must have happened to remove them from their farm. Mary Jane and children on that census are not with him. They are "visitors" living with her parents (Thomas and Mary Ann Polkinghorne).
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Post by rcollman on Feb 6, 2012 13:07:22 GMT -5
I found Jane Gilbart (widow) b 1822 in the 1891 census in Romney Ontario. She was living with George Lane and I assume her daughter Annie Maria Gilbart b 1853. I found a death certificate for Annie Gilbart Lane, 15 Aug 1934. It gives her birth date as 26 Jun 1853 Cornwall. She had lived in Canada 53 years (came around 1881). The name of her father was Thomas Gilbart who was born in Cornwall and the maiden name of mother was Jane Polkenhern (something like that and nothing ling a g in it). The informant was Mrs. Archie Thompson who was a daughter. I wondered if Jane Rogers Gilbart had married again when she got to Canada and after the 1891 census. Given the posts before, looks like the death certificate might have said Polkinghorne . A granddaughter could have been confused about the maiden name or...this could be another Thomas Gilbart. I don't know how this fits, but William T and brother George A. Ivey immigrated in 1875 to Iowa and were the grandchildren of James Rogers and Jane Trewheela though Jane's sister Mary S. who married Henry Ivey. Thought I would share my confusion My cousins are related to Thomas Trewheela Gilbart.
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Post by rcollman on Feb 6, 2012 20:25:35 GMT -5
Re Thomas (bap Aug 1816) and Jane Rogers Gilbart.
In the 1841 census there were 2 families living in Batterymills St. Erth: Elizabeth Gilbart 65, John Gilbart 40, Thomarine 30, Margerey Gilbart 25, William Gilbart 25, Thomas Gilbart 25, Jane Gilbart 20, Elizabeth Edwards, Elizabeth Davey 15. Also living at Batterymills was a second family of James Gilbart 40 Iron Factory, Ann Gilbart 50, Ann Gilbart 14, Maria Gilbart 10 and Ann Pellow 40.
I noted this 1841 census record with Thomas and Jane in my database.
Chris
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Post by pgilbart on Feb 6, 2012 21:27:23 GMT -5
RCollman, I have this Jane in my paperwork as Jane Polkenhorn Rogers (I can't remember where I found the Polkenhorn, but if I find the source I will post it). She and the Lanes (daughter Annie and family) came to Canada in June 1882 on the SS Polynesian (Liverpool to Quebec). Jane's husband Thomas Gilbart was born to John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance in 1815. I still haven't been able to find out when/where he died - probably before 1881. I found a Kent, Ontario cemetery listing for Mary Jane Gilbart, 1892 - if this is the same person she probably did not remarry.
Annie Gilbart Lane's brother James William Gilbart (my family line) also emigrated from Cornwall in 1882, farming in Missouri for about 10 years. You mentioned the Ivey family and this is another connection as James William is on the 1881 census "unemployed farmer" living in the home of Mary and Henry Ivey. They must have taken him in after his farm failed?
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Post by pgilbart on Feb 6, 2012 21:40:25 GMT -5
On the 1841 census, I think the Elizabeth is Elizabeth Huthnance Gilbart (widowed) and her son "Thomas" living there is the one who married Jane Rogers, but this marriage didn't take place until 1947. So the Jane Gilbart on the census may be his sister?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 7, 2012 7:44:57 GMT -5
I would be interested to know how the name 'Polkinghorne' (sic.) got involved here. We are talking about Jane Rogers whose parents were James Rogers and Jane Trewheela and on neither side does the name Polkinghorne (sic.) appear as far as I can ascertain. James Rogers was possibly baptised 19th August 1787 at St Mewan son of James Rogers and Susannah Job who married at St Ewe 16th September 1786. CT
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Post by pgilbart on Feb 7, 2012 8:28:27 GMT -5
CT, I'm going to guess that the previous poster was right -- it was a mistake in Annie Gilbart Lane's 1934 death certificate that put Polkinghorne - the cert says her mother was "Jane Polkenhorn" - into the data. Jane Rogers had probably been dead for about 40 years at that point, and her granddaughter had never met her, and just put in the wrong maiden name.
Interestingly, Annie Lane's sister-in-law was Mary Jane Polkinghorne Gilbart (died 1912, married to James W. Gilbart). Perhaps that's where the lines got crossed in Annie's daughter's mind.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 7, 2012 9:44:06 GMT -5
Yes, that would make sense. And it would be another example of errors that can be found in Death Certificates and Burial Records. And now from 'rcollman':- And neither do I says me sharing your confusion! What further information do you have on these two boys? If they were grandchildren of James and Jane Rogers then they must have emigrated as infants or at least as young children. Mary Rogers was born around 1830/1 and baptised in 1835 and Census records indicate she was not married until the early-mid 1850s. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 7, 2012 10:05:52 GMT -5
Well it's a funny old World and full of little surprises! William T Ivey = William TREWHELLA Ivey .................. and up until now I knew nothing about him! I have not found the actual marriage record yet but it looks like Henry Ivey and Mary Rogers may have been married in the June Qtr of 1851, shortly after the Census. And in the 1861 Census they are still at St Erth with the eldest son clearly recorded as William Trewhella Ivey age 8. But there is no sign of George A Ivey so it would appear I still have a little work to do to track him down. The OPC database shows records for several of the younger children being baptised in the Liskeard Wesleyan Circuit so I will pursue that and then see if I can find similar records for William T and the other older children. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 7, 2012 10:50:02 GMT -5
Very confusing indeed is this lot. I have now found Henry and Mary Ivey in the 1861 and 1871 Census which was the easy part of proceedings. Piecing together the list of children is a little more challenging even though they are almost all recorded in the Census. I found George Arthur Ivey in the 1861 Census at St Erth with his widowed grandmother Jane Rogers. He was born at Camborne about 1854 while the rest of his siblings down to Evelyn in 1866 were all born at St Erth. Evelyn was the first of the children baptised on the Liskeard Wesleyan Circuit at which time the family were living at Broadoak/Braddock. The curious thing is that of those listed in the Census the following do not appear in FreeBMD:- William Trewhella Ivey George Arthur Ivey Pearce Ivey John Michal Ivey And then there is a James Rogers Ivey born in 1853 who I would have thought would belong yet does not appear in the Census. There is also no death indexed for him. In fact there is no trace of James Rogers Ivey in FreeBMD after the birth registration. At least what I have found so far indicates that William Trewhella Ivey and brother George Arthur Ivey would have been in their early 20s when they emigrated in 1875. CT
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