My 4X grandfather Tobias Lanyon Gray married Jane Sparnon 1800 in Redruth. My query is who are Tobias' parents? My information, from many years ago, indicates his father was John Gray and mother Sarah Battrall chr 24.10.1779 in Redruth. I believe this info came from IGI, However, recently I have found internet sites which indicate that his parents are Tobias Lanyon and Elizabeth Grey also chr 24.10.1779. Does anyone have any information regarding the baptism Tobias ? Thanks Wilma
What you really need to do is look at online transcripts of PRs yourself.
Tobias Lanyon Gray baptism 24 Oct 1779 Redruth is there on FamilySearch.... (yes transcripts can have errors, particularly as has been found on FamilySearch/IGI, but it's far better than someone else's tree!! - particularly if that tree does not quote the source for supplying him with parents at baptism 1779 that differ from the FamilySearch transcript!)
I'm guessing you have a string of children from the 1800 marriage of Tobias Lanyon Gray & Jane Sparnon...
If they named their 1stborn son John, then a 1st or 2nd girl was named Sarah/Sally, it's a decent indication as to Tobias Lanyon Gray's parents.
Then to reassure yourself further, you could do a search on www.familysearch.org for John Gray marriage 1769 +/- 10 years Redruth - and see what it comes up with! If you widen it to all of Cornwall, it doesn't find many more.....
Then finally, why not try doing a search on a marriage between Thomas Lanyon & Elizabeth Gray (answer it finds is 27 July 1752), and then, search for any children surname Lanyon with parents Tobias & Elizabeth
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 22, 2011 1:37:50 GMT -5
Hi Wilma - some very good suggestions there from Sue and I would suggest that you take her advice and have a look. Some of the answers will probably turn up here but having a look for yourself will help you for future research.
If we can help you to find some things for yourself then it makes it all that much more fun for you.
That all said - I have had a look myself and can confirm that FamilySearch has only one record for a Tobias Lanyon Grey with the baptism taking place at Redruth 24th October 1779. Parents recorded are John and Sarah.
But ............ while there were a number of baptisms for children with two Christian names even earlier it is unusual enough to require some more thinking. Quite often these 'double-barrell' names indicate illegitimacy so we need to look at the possibility.
In this case I am going to search for a Tobias Grey or a Tobias Lanyon whose baptism might only record the mother's name. Nothing found which indicates that your original information might in fact be correct.
It is certainly unfortunate that IGI/FamilySearch is about the only place available to search for Redruth Baptisms right now. I believe the CFHS have a Transcript available for purchase but I don't have access to that one and it is again a transcript.
For the time being it will be a case of 'work with what is available' but keep in mind that a search of original documents should be done should they become available.
I will search a little more and post any findings here for you.
Many thanks to Sue and Cornish Terrier, I have previously searched IGI/family search for various combinations as you have suggested. The only child of Tobais Lanyon and Jane Gray I could find was Jane 23.7.1753 in Redruth, no sign of a Tobias. The children of Tobias Lanyon Gray and Jane Sparnon :1st child was John,2nd Sally 3rd Thomas (John Gray father was thomas) then Tobias, and Jane another Tobias and another Thomas. Which certainly gives an indication and It seems more than likely that Tobias parents were John Gray and Sarah Battrall , but as you say until a search of the original documents can be done nothings is proved.
I have found many inconsistencies and incorrect facts in family trees so do not rely on them without checking things out myself.
Will keep looking and hope the registers become available sometime.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 25, 2011 6:44:54 GMT -5
Hi Wima - don't give up on this or even put it in the too hard basket for a while . Just remember that there have been many ways found to skin a cat and even though the cat don't like it much he plays the game if he thinks it is for a good cause! ;D
We have some information so let's look at what we have and form a plan of attack around it.
We have the name Tobias Lanyon Gray and there is a record in FamilySearch for the baptism of Tobias Lanyon Gray at Redruth 24th October 1779 to parents John and Sarah.
I would consider it fairly unusual for 1779 to see two Christian names. Usually I would associate that with an illegitimate child or perhaps with someone of means but there are other options.
If you search what FamilySearch/IGI has to offer you will find that there were more children baptised to John and Sarah Gray at Redruth:-
Sarah bp. 10th May 1772 Ann bp. 11th April 1774 John bp. 10th August 1777 John bp. 23rd June 1782
The first John was buried at Redruth 17th January 1780 and recorded as 'child of John'. From this we now know that Tobias Lanyon Gray was the fourth of five known children which would seem to rule out the illegitimacy option and as he was the only child with two Christian names I don't think the family was quite 'of means and standing'.
But before getting too carried away perhaps we should think about the parents of these children.
I have enough resources to have been able to find:-
John Gray and Sarah Battral, both of Redruth, were married 4th February 1771 at Redruth Witnesses were Wm. Smith and Richard Gray
Now we have a nice little family and we also have some clues to work with.
Perhaps the best clue here is the fact that one of the witnesses was a Richard Gray and it would be reasonable to expect that Richard might be either the father or a brother to John. John Gray was not an uncommon name in the area so a bit of work might be involved but at least it might be possible to narrow the list down without too much difficulty.
The marriage occurred in 1771 so I would consider setting some parameters to work within. You can always expand the search later if necessary.
I would start with allowing John to be as young as 18 and perhaps as old as 40 when he married so you would need to search between about 1730 and 1753. Make a list of all John Grays you can find baptised within those years and note the names of the parents. If you find a John with Richard as the father make sure you highlight the entry. Then you need to check for a baptism for Richard Gray. If John was son of Richard then there is a good chance he would also have a brother Richard so that would be a good way of cross-checking.
Once you have compiled the list check for possible marriages to see if perhaps the name Lanyon is involved.
But don't forget Sarah and also don't forget that her surname (Battral) is probably a variation of Bottrell. I am more inclined to think that this is where a Lanyon connection might be found but you need to explore all possibilities. At least the number of baptisms for Sarah Bottrell (var.) should not be as large as that for John Gray.
A time-span for a possible baptism for Sarah can be reasonably set so that no expansion is necessary. I always work on the probability that a woman would have been no older than 48 when her last child was born. The last known child was baptised in 1782 so subtract 48 and we end up with 1734 as the earliest reasonable time to expect Sarah to be baptised. Allow for her to be as young as 16 when the first child was born (1772) and we end up with a search span from 1734 to 1756.
Once again check for possible Lanyon connections with the parents marriage.
Now - if no Lanyon connection is found at this point there are two options to consider - 1. the connection may actually be one generation further back or 2. it is not a direct family connection at all. It may be that Tobias Lanyon was a godfather to John or Sarah or he may have been merely a good family friend.
That should give you quite enough to keep you occupied for a little while. But there is always the option of tracing a couple of generations of any Tobias Lanyon around that time. You may find a Lanyon family living in the same area as the Grays or Botttrells over a long period and that might provide the answer for the name.
I think I may have uncovered the Lanyon link, thanks to your suggestions.
Tobias Lanyon Gray' b 1779 mother Sarah Battrall b 1748 , father John Gray b 1743 .
John Gray had a brother Richard b 1738, who is likely to be the witness to John Gray Marriage in 1771. He also had an older sister Elizabeth Gray b 1734 who married a Tobias Lanyon in 27.7. 1752, in Redruth. Which is where the Lanyon connection could come from.
John Gray also had another brother Thomas b 1737 who married a Mary Battrall 1.8.1763 in Redruth. Sarah had a sister called Mary, but as yet I haven't confirmed that this is the same Mary
I have also just found that Richard Gray, the brother, married a Jane Battrel 9.8.1762 in Redruth. I haven't found a Jane in Sarah's family but feel that they could be connected in some way so will have to keep looking.
Post by jesshughes17 on Dec 24, 2011 10:26:30 GMT -5
Hello, new to this site. Been trying to find out information on Tobias Lanyon Gray as he his a distant relative as mine and my grandmother is making a family tree. We had his parents down to be Tobias Lanyon and Elizabeth Gray. Have you found that this information is incorrect? Any information would be great?