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Post by davidkingmartin on Apr 24, 2008 5:51:27 GMT -5
One or two misc. "clues", geographical ones, in relation to "my" line of Martins: Trenowen Downs: my late father in his papers refers to this place as "Trenowin Downs" and I lived there (aged 2, 1946) for a few months before moving to Trezelah (hamlet), where the double farmhouse was owned by a cousin of Joseph Martin (b.1875, son of John and Levinia). This cousin may have been "John". Trenowin is near Finger`s Point (Castle Gate to Nancledra road). Pool Hedgy: my father calls it Poldegy. Castle Gate: Joseph M. (above) was living there in 1940s. David.
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Apr 24, 2008 6:40:10 GMT -5
Hmm - I don't think I have the families reversed but let's investigate. Firstly - Richard and Grace also had son John (bp. 25th May 1766), David (bp. 15th May 1768) and James (bp. 7th October 1770) - all at Towednack. In the family of James and Charity - Charity and James both obviously named for their parents is fine. Christopher would be named after Charity's father and William possibly after her brother. Ann possibly after Charity's mother. Richard, John and Grace I still need to look at. In the 1841 Census I think Charity was a widow so her James is a little difficult at present. However James and Margaret were still living and had with them son Thomas. James and Margaret were both enumerated as being age 75 which would place James' birth closer to 1775 than 1770. Anyway - must close now for a few hours otherwise it will cost me. Will try to investigate and explain more later on tonight. I was at a different house and apparently my database in each house is not matching. I shall have to sort that out for certain. Yes, I see now the additional children to Richard and Grace, plus Richard bap 1762. Will have to delve deeper.
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Apr 24, 2008 7:06:54 GMT -5
One or two misc. "clues", geographical ones, in relation to "my" line of Martins: Trenowen Downs: my late father in his papers refers to this place as "Trenowin Downs" and I lived there (aged 2, 1946) for a few months before moving to Trezelah (hamlet), where the double farmhouse was owned by a cousin of Joseph Martin (b.1875, son of John and Levinia). This cousin may have been "John". Trenowin is near Finger`s Point (Castle Gate to Nancledra road). Pool Hedgy: my father calls it Poldegy. Castle Gate: Joseph M. (above) was living there in 1940s. David. Not sure if this is your "John MARTIN and Levinia" UNY LELANT JOHN MARTIN MARRIED LAVINIA UREN ON 01 Nov 1862 BY BANNS MINISTER URIAH TONKIN WITNESSES P B BERRIMAN SARAH UREN JOHN IS FROM ST. IVES & TIN DRESSER A BACHELOR LAVINIA IS FROM UNY LELANT & SCHOOL MISTRESS A SPINSTER JOHN MARTIN A MINER IS FATHER OF JOHN GEORGE UREN A MINER IS FATHER OF LAVINIA BOTH SIGNED
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Apr 24, 2008 7:25:32 GMT -5
No Ian, I forgot that child, he was their child too, he died at only 5 months of age.
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Post by davidkingmartin on Apr 24, 2008 7:39:02 GMT -5
Kernow: Thanks for super-fast response! No, "my" John and Levinia are, as far as can be established, : Levinia (Lavinia) Rowe b.Sept.1852 5c307 Penzance, mother Hannah (Anna) Giles Williams. Levinia m. John 1872 5c475 July-Sept.,Penzance. Levinia`s father, William (b.1820, Madron) was living at Castle Gate with the Martin family in 1901 (Census). Levinia listed as a widow; husband may have died in S Africa post-1891. William listed as her father. Address:no 46 Castle Gate. One of John Martin`s sons was my g-father Joseph, b.1875, Poledgy (Ludgvan). A grandson is listed at the same location: James P. Martin, aged 2 months. P=Penberthy, possibly.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 24, 2008 9:38:37 GMT -5
An APOLOGY and a CORRECTION In my last note I made comment about James and Margaret Martins in the 1841 being both enumerated as age 75. They were, in fact, enumerated as being both age 65. I believe Margaret (nee BERRYMAN) to have been baptised at ST IVES 11th January 1775 daughter of Andrew BERRYMAN and Sarah (nee QUICK) who were recorded as 'of TOWEDNACK'. Although James and Margaret did not name a son Andrew we now have a reason for them naming a daughter Sarah - she would have been named after Margaret's mother. And the age in the 1841 Census (although rounded) is consistent with James having been born about 1774. Will get to the latest notes very shortly as I have been busy trying to find and run a program to clean up my Registry and help speed up this Computer. Ian
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Apr 24, 2008 12:43:01 GMT -5
Kernow: Thanks for super-fast response! No, "my" John and Levinia are, as far as can be established, : Levinia (Lavinia) Rowe b.Sept.1852 5c307 Penzance, mother Hannah (Anna) Giles Williams. Levinia m. John 1872 5c475 July-Sept.,Penzance. Levinia`s father, William (b.1820, Madron) was living at Castle Gate with the Martin family in 1901 (Census). Levinia listed as a widow; husband may have died in S Africa post-1891. William listed as her father. Address:no 46 Castle Gate. One of John Martin`s sons was my g-father Joseph, b.1875, Poledgy (Ludgvan). A grandson is listed at the same location: James P. Martin, aged 2 months. P=Penberthy, possibly. OK, I can rule them out then, thanks.
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Post by davidkingmartin on May 3, 2008 11:14:36 GMT -5
Ian: You are probably aware of the following info. re Trewhella: William T., miner, living at No.48 Trevalgan (? cannot decypher Census entry), Halsetown, St.Ives, 1871, wife Catherine Nicholls Martin, with children incl. Mary Ann and Joanna. Next door at no. 49 is James Martins, b.1824 abt., tin miner, wife Ann probably deceased, children incl. Andrew Nicholls Martin b.1866abt.,and James Penberthy M.,b.1858. Andrew m. C Berryman 1886. Andrew`s father is James P.M., b.1824, m.Ann Nicholls 1849 Towednack. James P.Martin is one of the sons of John Martins 1792 Towednack and Catherine Penberthy 1794 Uny Lelant. Proceeding back in time; John`s father: David Martins. His father, also David. His father : Richard, who m. C Leggoe. Another son of Richard is Richard 1734-1800, who m. Grace Uren. A son of theirs is, I think, "my" James b.1774, m.Charity Carbus (Carbess). Back to A N Martin/Catherine Berriman (m.1886). Their son is James P.Martin, b1888(?), m.Florence M. Hoskings. See 1891 Census, Towednack Green Bank. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 3, 2008 11:50:08 GMT -5
David - thanks for that information. Will try to look at it properly a little later but right now I am in the middle of a QUICKmire with the QUAGS .............. or is that a QUAGmire with the QUICKS. Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on May 5, 2008 10:41:23 GMT -5
Continuing my "spiel" of 3 May (and hoping that Ian has not disappeared into a quicksand): The aforementioned James P Martin has been identified, by Kernow62, as a resident of Ferndale Cottage/Cledry Hill. Kernow knew a neighbour, Arthur Caddick ,an old friend of my late father. James is a brother of Emma d.3 Nov.1992 (info: Kernow, to whom Emma Catherine is related). Small world! The father of Catherine Penberthy (Martins),1794, may be W Penberthy who m.C. Nicholls Uny Lelant 1793...hence the Nicholls that subsequently appears in some names. What still has me puzzled is the "Arthur" mystery, mentioned in earlier postings. Arthur Martins 1841 Census aged 23 living with Joseph Martins and Mary (Ninnes), their child Mary aged 2 and Charity Martins (Carbus), mother of Joseph M.....which links 3 generations. But what became of Arthur?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 5, 2008 15:42:44 GMT -5
No, not quicksand - merely a bit of a mire at the moment. I am just glancing through the latest at the moment before I head off to bed but have noticed a couple of things with interest. One of those is the possible origin of the Nicholls name in the family. My interest here is Catherine who married William Trewhella in 1858 at Towednack. But I have some confusion. I originally had the 1824 son of John and Catherine as James Penberthy Martins as per the Towednack Transcript of baptisms. However there is mention in this thread somewhere that this was actually JOHN Penberthy Martins. If it is actually James then I must ask just where John Penberthy Martins comes into the picture. Aside from that I need to complete a check of the Board before bed so will try and catch up on things in the next couple of days.
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Post by davidkingmartin on May 5, 2008 17:16:21 GMT -5
Ian: I do not know at the moment where John P. Martins fits into the picture. Another "mystery": Catherine Penberthy (1794 Uny Lelant), wife of John Martins (1792) and mother of Catherine N Martins/Trewhella. John M. was dead by 1871, but Catherine appears alive and kicking in the 1871 household with daughter Jane b1834 (a sister of Catherine Nicholls M.), and listed on the Census as such ie daughter, and two children William G. DUNSTON aged 3 and Mary Jane Dunston 3 months listed as SON and DAUGHTER !!! (the "mother" is 77)...so maybe Jane is the mother. And there is a lodger: Elizabeth Jane Ninnes, 23. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 6, 2008 8:59:53 GMT -5
David - PROBLEM SOLVED. The two young children were children of the unmarried Elizabeth Jane Ninnes. William Geach Dunstan Ninnes was born in 1868 Mary Jane Ninnes was born in 1870 (From FreeBMD) William Geach DUNSTAN married Elizabeth Jane NINNES in 1872. Up until 1881 they had a total of seven children all born at Towednack. My problem now is that two of those children had QUICK as a second name. I am assuming that this probably came from Elizabeth's side of the family although I am yet to find out who her parents were. William was son of John DUNSTAN, inn keeper, and his wife Jane. (Another marriage I need to find and it probably occurred at Towednack.) John Dunstan was baptised at Towednack 2nd April 1797 s/o Hugh DUNSTONE and Mary (nee GEACH) who were married at Budock 30th June 1782. So you need not concern yourself about poor old Catherine having kids in her 70's. Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on May 8, 2008 13:55:27 GMT -5
Thanks, Ian. I think I have strayed a long way from my "core" Martin tree, but nonetheless: if the second name "Quick" came from Elizabeth`s side of the family, then I wonder whether she is a relative of Mary Ninnes (Martins), St.Ives area, b.Towednack 18.03.1817, m.Joseph 1838. Mary had a brother John 1816-`71 (who m. Mary Trembath, 1824-1902). I am still looking out for the "Quick Martin" that I saw listed in a Census, by chance (the handwritten listing)...probably Towednack/Ludgvan, 1841 /`51. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2008 15:53:47 GMT -5
David - unfortunately I am having a lot of difficulty finding Elizabeth Jane Ninnes in any Census prior to 1871. My other problem is that I do not have Towednack baptisms beyond 1840 so I cannot try and chase her down that way either. And, of course, I do not have Towednack Marriages beyond 1812. I will keep my eyes open for anything that might turn up to help on this one and will try and get back to the general scenario as soon as I can. Ian
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