Jane Curnow bptzd 26 April 1778 Towednack

[sue]

I have this lady tentatively married to Thomas Ellis 26 December 1799 at Towednack.

This couple seem to have had the following children:
John Ellis 21 Feb 1800 Towednack
Thomas Ellis 26 Dec 1802 Towednack
Sarah Ellis 28 April 1805 Towednack
James Ellis 30 Nov 1806 Towednack
Jennifer Ellis 20 Jun 1809 Towednack
Robert Ellis 22 Sep 1811 Towednack
Francis Ellis 8 May 1814 Towednack
Jane Ellis? 21 Jun 1817 Towednack
Joseph Ellis? 20 Oct 1820 Towednack
Sarah Ellis 16 May 1824 Towednack

Then widowed Jane is with son John & his family at Halsetown in 1841. Possibly buried St Ives 1 Nov 1848, although age 72 a little out...

However, if the above family is that of Jane Curnow baptized 26 April 1778 to William Curnow & Margery Richards/Eddy, how come there are no children named for William or Margery? And what's with Sarah?

On the other hand, the 1799 December marriage slots in between the writing of Wm Curnow's will 17 Dec 1799 and his burial 13 Jan 1800, marrying off the daughter before he died so to speak....

But the Ellis children just don't look right......

Yet I haven't found an alternative life for Jane Curnow, yet.......

Help needed, please!

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

15th August 1846 Towednack
Richard Jenkin of full age, widower, miner of Towednack, son of Emmanuel Jenkin, miner, married Margery Ellis of full age, spinster of Towednack, daughter of Thomas Ellis, farmer

Richard Jenkin was baptised at Madron 1st June 1806 and was first married at Towednack 3rd November 1828 to Grace Eddy.

I have not been able to find a baptism for Margery Ellis and also have not been able to find Richard and/or Margery in the 1851 Census. But the details above are sufficient to suggest she was the gradnaughter of William and Margery Curnow and that she is one of the 'missing' names you are seeking.

You may be in for another overseas search but I will check around a little more and see if I can find a baptism for Margery.

CT

[sue]

Hmm, well that Margery helps some, yes, thankyou.

Okay; I see Grace Jenkin, of Towednack, buried at Gulval 23 Dec 1845, age 45.

The closest I can see to Richard Jenkin & wife Grace in 1841 is at Foage, Zennor, as Jenking, with a Mary Eddy age 4 present.

And in 1841 for a Margery Ellis, a Margret Ellis servant age 27 @ Trenowin Downs, which seems a fair location.

Indeed, perhaps this pair emigrated; as perhaps did some Ellis siblings.

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Sue - I have not been able to find a baptism for Margery but I did think I had an answer for the use of the name Sarah.
Information that was supplied to me some years ago suggested that Thomas Wallis was baptised at Gulval 29th March 1778 son of Robert and Wilmot Ellis. They had a daughter Sarah and my immediate thoughts were that this might be the source of the name for Thomas and Margery.

BUT - the first child of Thomas and Margery was son JOHN and he was followed by Thomas. Robert appears in the family but not before yet another son was named James.
My conclusion from that is that it is unlikely Thomas was the son of Robert - particularly has there were four daughters (aside from Margery) but none named Wilmot.

I checked the Gulval Parish Register and found another little problem.
The Thomas baptised 29th March 1778 was NOT the son of Robert but rather the son of JOHN Ellis.

Compounding the problem is that the very next baptism in the Gulval PR is for ANOTHER Thomoas Ellis!

Thomas son of John Ellis bp. 29th March 1778
Thomas son of Robert Ellis bp. 12th April 1778

But there is yet one more little item that suggests both of these may be wrong.

Thomas Ellis of Terwednack age 54 buried 26th January 1827 at Gulval

Assuming (just for a moment ) that the age is accurate then this Thomas would have been born in 1772 which is six years earlier than either of the two baptisms above.

I certainly do not now think that the information about Robert and Wilmot being the parents of Thomas is correct - in fact I am almost certain it must be wrong.

Another look at the daughters of Thomas and Jane might tell a little story.
The marriage record tells us that Margery is probably their daughter. Even though no baptism has yet been found the name supports the possibility that her mother was the daughter of William and Margery Curnow.
But it is really the other four daughters that perhaps offer the best clues - Sarah (1805-1805), Jennifer (1809-1810), Jane (1817-) and Sarah (1824-).

With Jennifer and Jane being interchangeable we have two daughters named after mother Jane.
Allowing that Margery belongs then we have a daughter named after her maternal grandmother.
And this leads to the conclusion that, especially as the name is also used twice, Sarah must have been the name of the paternal grandmother.

That is the logical conclusion!

If you look at IGI and FamilySearch the only marriage for a John Ellis to Sarah is at St Levan in 1714 ................ maybe just a little early?
The OPC site has a marriage in 1777 at Stratton but the attached notes state that this John Ellis was a sojourner from North Wales.

None of the other marriages for John Ellis in the right time period seem likely with the spouses being Ann, Elizabeth or Thomasine.

But a search for Ellis children where the parents names were John and Sarah gave me something to think about.

And that led me to the Isles of Scilly where we find the marriage of John Ellis and Sarah Gibson in October 1756.

There are records in IGI for four children baptised to John and Sarah in Scilly - James (1757), Samuel (1761), John (1769) and John (1773).
Several gaps are evident between these children so I would expect there may have been others.

Nothing conclusive but I think this is the best option so far. It is definitely worth pursuing to see what more can be found about this family.

CT

[sue]

Interesting!

I'd had a wee look around the locality - Ludgvan, Gulval, Lelant but not found any Ellis families that really fitted the bill.

The possibility of a groom from Scilly in 1799 had not crossed my mind....

The family you've found certainly have room for a Thomas....

If indeed it is a man from Scilly who married Jane Curnow who we think is she baptized 26 Apr 1778 Towednack, perhaps William Curnow who married Margery Richards/Eddy had been off there for a while & thus it was a family contact; I have wondered whether William wandered before he married lateish at 43....


Sue

PS I was intrigued by the Ludgvan Thomas Ellis burial transcription 1830 aged 66 - annotated "trouble"?!!!

[Cornish Terrier]

There was probably a little more interaction between the Scillies and the Mainland than people might think and it is even possible that the Thomas baptised at Gulval in 1778 might be a late baptism for a child of John and Sarah from the Scillies.

But I did notice a baptism also on Scilly for a child of John and Thomasine Ellis. I think it was 1792 so could conceivably be a child of John Ellis and Thomasine Wallish who married at St Buryan in 1777.

Boats back then would not have made the journey as quick as the Scillonian does now but the distance hasn't changed so it would still have been achievable in about half a day.

PS I was intrigued by the Ludgvan Thomas Ellis burial transcription 1830 aged 66 - annotated "trouble"?!!!

Not really an annotation but written more like it was part of the name!

Thomas Ellis)
......Trouble)

(Ignore the line of dots but it was the only way I could find to try and show how it looks :

That is basically how it appears but perhaps 'Trouble' means the cause of death.

Lack of oxygen to the brain ...................... Trouble! ;D

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Sue - I can find no trace of Richard and/or Margery Jenkin after the marriage in 1846.

There are two children baptised in 1847 and 1848 to Richard and Margery Jenkin at Chasewater but it looks like there may have been another marriage in the Truro R.D. in 1843 to cater for them.
In fact that family can be found at Beerferris in the 1851 Census.

The 1850 and 1860 US Census gave up no secrets and I can find nothing in Victoria, South Australia or NSW to indicate any children were born out here.

Also no sign in Wales in 1851.

CT

[sue]

Oh well; best leave them out in the ether for now then!

Point taken re the Scilly journey, yes.... I might try and look at this John~Sarah Ellis lot further; I had noticed that a Sarah Ellis age 6 1829 of Trewednack was also buried at Gulval, as well as the apparent father Thomas.

Thanks.

Sue

[londoner]

Jul 28, 2011 16:38:51 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

But I did notice a baptism also on Scilly for a child of John and Thomasine Ellis. I think it was 1792 so could conceivably be a child of John Ellis and Thomasine Wallish who married at St Buryan in 1777.


That would have been John Ellis & Thomasin Nickolls who married Nov 1795 IOS

[sue]

Hi Londoner

Mmmm.... I recall previous references to Ellis families being a bit tricky to sort, and so the one I'm connected to may prove!

Will need to take a deep breath before launching in to this one, methinks!

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks Londoner - that explains the rather long gap between the 1777 marriage and the first child I could find for John and Thomasine.

Don't know why I didn't check for an IOS marriage at the time.

CT

[helston81]

This is a bit late but I have discovered a Jane Curnow born in 1777 and married to my mother's ancestor Christopher Rows on 19 June 1797... I wonder if your Jane Curnow is the same as mine. Unfortunately I have no records to back this up - yet.

[sue]

Hi Helston81.

To answer your question, NO, 2 quite different Jane Curnows.

Something tells me you got this information about Jane Curnow~Christopher Rows off AN Other's/AN Others' tree!

Do not go there! (Other people's trees!!)

If you look at the Cornwall Online Parish Clerk website,
www.cornwall-opc-database.org/home/
you will see that Christopher Rows yeoman of Ludgvan married Jane Curnow of Towednack by licence 19 June 1797. Marrying by licence rather than banns sometimes meant you had some money.

The Jane Curnow who married Christopher Rows was not born in 1777. That information is quite incorrect.

I don't know how solid/personally researched your information is that has got you as far as Christopher Rows~Jane Curnow being antecedents of your mother. Assuming for now that you have the correct line that takes you back to this pair, may I suggest you search for all Christopher Rows in Cornwall during the 1841 & 1851 censuses, and similarly for all Jane Rows. You should find Jane via whichever census information website you use. Here's a link to a free website
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/search.html

This should give you an approximation for her birth year, then you will be able to search for her baptism as Jane Curnow on the OPC website around the time of that calculated birth year. I believe should also find her burial as Jane Rows there.

I expect you will enjoy doing these lookups for yourself to find Jane's identity.

Sue