Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2011 15:32:40 GMT -5
Another one of those curious anomalies with relationship descriptions!
Firstly Londoner - I think you have your Janes mixed up. This Jane was age 59 in the 1851 Census so would have been only about 11 in 1803 for the marriage to John Stephens!
The story as I see it:-
James NINNES, roper, married Jane COGAR 2nd August 1791 St Ives
Jane bp. 22nd January 1792 St Ives James bp. 5th January 1794 St Ives Ann bp. 21st February 1796 St Ives Catherine bp. 25th March 1798 St Ives (Kitty d/o James and Jane Ninnis buried 16th July 1802 St Ives) John James bp. 1st February 1801 (born 15th January) St Ives Independent Chapel )John James son of James and Jane Ninnes buried 7th July 1805 age 5)
A couple of things concern me at this point although there appears to be no other possible scenario:- 1. no burial can be found for James. He was a 'roper' so may have been at sea I suppose. 2. with a son named James they then name a son 'John James'. 3. no burial for daughter Ann (see following)
John STEPHENS, mariner, married Jane NINNES, widow 24th April 1803 St Ives (her signiature (first name) is close enough to match that in the first marriage)
Ann bp. 7th May 1804 (born 9th April) St Ives Independent Catherine bp. 23rd May 1805 (born 7th May) St Ives Independent John bp. 22nd February 1807 (born 21st December 1806) St Ives Independent
So Jane NINNES and Ann STEPHENS were actually half-sisters.
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 9, 2011 4:33:56 GMT -5
No problem. As soon as I saw your note I checked the Census original and as soon as I saw 'sister-in-law' with both ladies 'unmarried' I immediately considered a second marriage for their mother.
I am not happy though that a burial is not apparent for James Ninnes.
More work will need to be done on the Ninnes lines to be absolutely certain of this and I think that is going to lead us back to a conundrum with the names Ninnes and Nance being interchanged at some point.
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 23, 2011 11:04:17 GMT -5
The James Ninnis that stayed in St Ives, mariner/fisherman, married Jane Care 8 May 1819, and had children Martha Care Ninnis baptized 18 Jan 1822, William Care Ninnis buried 29 December 1823 4 days old; then James baptized privately 6 January 1824, buried 18 January 1824 3 weeks old - so William & James were twins. Mother Jane was buried 7 January 1824.
A slight correction is required here!
William Care Ninnis was baptised 26th December 1823 at St Ives son of John Launder and Margaret Ninnis.
He was therefore not a twin to James.
The wife of John Launder Ninnis was Margaret Care and it is this union that is partly to blame for some consternation I now have regarding the origins of the original James Ninnis of this thread.
John Launder Ninnis was the son of Nicholas and Ann whose son James of 1793 was one of those in the mix.
Margaret Care was a daughter of Henry and Martha Care and was a sister to Jane who married James Ninnes in 1819.
Another sister, Elizabeth (a minor) married Nicholas Ninnes (also a minor) at St Ives in 1798.
Nicholas and John Launder Ninnes were brothers so with the three Care girls being sisters it seems logical that James Ninnes, husband of Jane, might therefore be a brother to Nicholas and John Launder Ninnes.
My apologies to all who have subscribed to this enquiry. I have difficulty navigating this website and felt guilty at the rebuke from Sue for not reading all the work put in by all. I have now found the thread and will work my way through it and promise to return with any comments and thoughts.
My thanks to Sue, Cornish Terrier and Londoner for posting a lot of information that I am trying to work through and I will try to answer some questions. I'll start with what I know about my Great, Great Grandfather William Ninnes b. about 1819 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England. Some research has discovered that he married an Emma Cook b. unknown and marriage date unknown. It is believed that William and Emma had a child James Walker Ninnes cited as living with James (Jeweller) and Mary Ninnes and William (also a Jeweller) in the 1851 Census. Emma is cited on James Walker Ninnes's birth certificate as "not living" with William. William then also has a child, William b. 1847 to Mary Ann Topp and it is this family that migrates to South Australia on the Fop Smit in 1854. Add into that mix that William's brother is also a James Walker b. 1818 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England. He is also a Jeweller but later has a career change to Pub Owner we discover thanks to the aforementioned researchers. One of the reasons for my query about the Ninnes's is to not only discover my own heritage but to see if we are linked to another Ninnes family from Towednack, Cornwall, England. Towednack is pretty close to St. Ives. ElizBarnes posted my data and her ancestry includes 2 Ninnes brothers who migrated to South Australia. Joseph and Thomas Ninnes migrated in 1848 and were farmers out here. I hope this info helps and that I haven't muddied the waters?
Martha Care Ninnis daughter of James Ninnes and Jane Care
I have a Martha Care Ninnes Marrying Henry Lugg in 1841 Jan. Is this the correct Martha as I note that there are 2 Martha Care Ninnes in the OPC registers. One d/o John and Margaret the other d/o James and Jane.
In 1841 I find Margaret Ninnes and Martha Ninnes living together in Factory Lane, St Ives. I found Margaret Jane Ninnes d/o James and Jane bpt 13 Oct 1820, St Ives. Assumption that this is Martha Care Ninnes sister. So i am making assumption that James and Jane's Martha did not marry Henry Luggs
I have found a later marriage for Martha Care Ninnes in 1848 to William Pearce. is this the right marriage? Martha names one of her sons Christopher Harvey Ninnes. Her father's second family use this a lot.
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 25, 2011 5:11:55 GMT -5
Don't know about that but I will give the Ninnes tree a good shake and see what falls to ground.
I spent much of last night retracing my early efforts on the Ninnes (var.) of Towednack just to make sure I have the information in my database accurate.
Anything to do with Towednack is difficult for a number of reasons but the main problem I have is that I do not have access to the original registers. (Or digitial copies of them anyway)
What I do have is Transcripts of BTs and the Hoblyn Transcript which I am finding more and more inaccurate for the early period that it covers.
I understand that the actual register is a bit of a mess and that great care is required to interpret the information therein.
But the Hoblyn Transcript, or at least the early part of it, is transcribed from a transcript of a 'private register' so we are dealing with a Transcript of a Transcript of a Private Register which is a Copy of the Original!
Hoblyn's Transcript begins:-
"The following List was copied from a private Register in the possession of Christopher Michell, clerk of the Parish of Towednack, in the year 1806, by me Cornelius Cardew, D.D., Vicar"
So we know that the then Vicar, Cornelius Cardew, made the first copy from Christopher Michell's private register.
For baptisms there are two entries for 1706 followed by the note:-
"The Register missing from this time to the year 1720"
(end of transcript from C. Michell's private register)
And then for 1720 onwards - "Original (parchment) Church Register"
Certainly any information prior to 1720 must be considered to be not totally reliable and I have had the same problem with the burial of the elder Francis Quick whose burial is recorded prior to the date his Will was written!
As an example of the problems with this part of the Ninnes family:-
Thomas son of Richard Ninnes buried 26th April 1687 Thomas son of Richard Ninnes baptised 1sth May 1687
There are only five baptisms recorded for 1687 with May 1st followed by August 14th being the first two so there is certainly potential for an error in transcription.
A Richard Ninnes (bride not named) was married at Towednack 18th January 1680 and from 1682 to 1693 there are five baptisms recorded to 'a' Richard Ninnes whom I would presume to be the same person.
But then we have a burial for 'Jane wife of Richard Ninnes 5th November 1687'
So the family prior to 1720 is going to take a lot of work.
But now that I have that part of the database in 'reasonable' order I plan tonight to look at Ludgvan, Lelant and St Ives in particular to see if I can build the picture leading forward to our problem with James Ninnes of c.1794.