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Post by raywalton on May 7, 2011 2:57:50 GMT -5
I've traced my line in South Australia back to James Ninnes born c1794 who married Mary Green born c1794. He was born in St. Ives and she was born in Bristol, Somerset and they were married in Walcot, Somerset but I haven't discovered parents and siblings if any. Their children that I am aware about were James Walker Ninnes and William Ninnes. I am a descendant of William who migrated to South Australia in 1854. I would greatly appreciate any help.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 7, 2011 7:09:37 GMT -5
Welcome 'raywalton' as our very first member from the Northern Territory! Based on what information you have provided for James Ninnes I can find three possible baptisms at St Ives. James son of Nicholas and Ann Ninnis bp. 7th April 1793 James son of William and Mary Ninnis bp. 3rd October 1794 James son of James and Jane Ninnis bp. 5th January 1794 The three marriages relating to the above would probably be:- Nicholas Ninnis m. Ann Saunder (Launder?) 1st August 1779 St Ives William Ninnis m. Mary Ciceley 15th August 1784 St Ives James Ninnis m. Jane Cogar 2nd August 1791 St Ives None of these seem to be of any help so I think we may need a little more information if you can find or provide it. If you can locate them in the 1841 and 1851 Census please let me know where they were and it may help find something more. It would be worth checking around that same area to see if any other family members might also be close by. CT
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Post by londoner on May 7, 2011 8:24:24 GMT -5
1851: HO107; Piece: 1646; Folio: 126; Page: 9; Brighton, Sussex
James Ninnis (transcribed Nimms at A*)1794 Cornwall St Ives Jeweller Mary wife, 1794 Bristol William son, 1820 Liverpool jeweller employing 1 man & apprentice(s) James - grandson 1839 Devizes
Births Jun 1838 Ninnes James Walker Devizes 8 316
1841 Bath, St James Class: HO107; Piece 969; Book: 2; Civil Parish: St James; County: Somerset; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 32; Page: 61; Line: 22;
James Ninnis (transcribed Ninns) 1796 Jeweller Mary 1796 James age 3
James Ninnis m Mary Green 10 Fen 1817 Sr Swithins, Walcot, Bath
Also: James Henry Ninnis son of James Walker Ninnis and Fanny b 6 Jul 1842 bap 7 Sep 1842 at St Botolph without Aldgate
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Post by londoner on May 7, 2011 8:38:21 GMT -5
1841 London
HO107; Piece 721; Book: 3; Civil Parish: St Gregory By St Paul; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 17; Page: 27; Line: 24;
James, Frances and Mary age 1. Also John Simpson Watchmaker, age 40 (not b in county)possibly his employer?
from Bath BMD: NINNES Mary Jane Bathwick Bath (mother's mn)COLBORNE BWK/1/388
Class: RG9; Piece: 492; Folio: 76; Page: 19; 1861 at Tonbridge Wells James W Ninnes 43 Jeweller Engraver watch and clock maker employing 2 men & 2 boys. b Liverpool Frances Ninnes 44 b Bath James H Ninnes 18 b London Frances C Ninnes 14 b T.Wells Fredrick Ninnes 8 " Alfred G Ninnes 4 "
~James Walker Ninnes m Fanny Colbourne Dec 1838 Bath Reg Dist 11,22
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Post by londoner on May 7, 2011 8:52:32 GMT -5
just found a 10 yr old Edward Ninnes nb Bath, nephew to George and MAry Ann Green - could he be connected? in 1861 he is still with them (transcribed Venner)
George Green was bap at St Swithins 12 May 1806 son of William & Susanna - need to see if we can find Mary with the same parents. So far the only Mary I can find is d/o William & Phebe at Keynsham - possible that William m twice.
Edward Ninnes moved to London, following in George Greens trade (Tailor) and by 1871 was married with children one of whom is:
NINNES James Herbert Edward Walcot - First Series Bath HALES WL1/18/453.
None of this helps to identify which were the original parents of James although William & Mary could be favourites on a purely name basis. It would be useful to find where the Walker name came from.
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Post by sue on May 7, 2011 11:44:43 GMT -5
Linking in to the James Walker Ninnes~Fanny/Frances Colbourne marriage is the 1851 census household of
COLBOURN, Frances widower age 57; in House Property; born Bath; COLBOURN, Eliza her unmarried daughter age 25; & NINNES, Mary Grand Daughter age 10 born Bath. At address 30, Sydney Builds, Bathwick, Bath.
And 1851 James W Ninnis (born Liverpool like brother William, and for James W Ninnis a baptism can be found - "Baptisms: 29 Dec 1817 Mount Pleasant Chapel, Liverpool, Lancashire, England James Walker Ninnis - Child of James Ninnis & Mary (formerly Green) Born: 1 Dec 1817 Baptised by: Owen Davies Register: Baptisms 1814 - 1905, Page 3, Entry 44 Source: LDS Film 1595373" per Lancashire OPC) - watchmaker born c 1818 & wife Frances & 2 children are in Sussex, like his parents & brother - at 5, Nevill Bank, "Frant".
The 1851 James Ninnis b St Ives, Mary his wife from Somerset & married 30 year old son William Ninnis over in Brighton are transcribed as "Nimms" on another site too....
Raywalton: are you able to confirm that your ancestor William Ninnis who emigrated to Aus 1854 was a jeweller, born c 1820?
Sue
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Post by londoner on May 7, 2011 12:01:16 GMT -5
Good one Sue. Alittle more: Frances Colborne bap. 18 May 1817 St Michael's Bath, d/o Benjamin & Frances. Benjamin's occupation Carver & Gilder.
from FreeReg the marriage of Frances & James Walker Ninnes was at St Mary, Bathwick - 2 Dec 1838. groom of St Michael's parish, his occupation watchmaker, his father's occupation "Lodging House Keeper" Witnesses Henry & Jane Colborne
the bride's address - 30 Sydney Bldgs is the same as that of her mother in the 1851 census Sue found.
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Post by sue on May 7, 2011 12:58:19 GMT -5
And something else...
James Ninnes born St Ives c 1794, off in Brighton, Sussex as jeweller in 1851 with wife Mary born Bath/Bristol, 30 year old son William Ninnis born Liverpool 1820 et al.......
He James born c 1795 re-marries it seems, and appears in 1861 as a 65 year old beer house keeper at the Queen's Head Public House, Hamlet Roehampton High Street, Putney (London/Surrey borders) - with new 45 year old wife Eleanor born Tooting, Surrey (now South London) c 1816, 8 yr old William H Ninnis, 7 year old Elizabeth J Ninnis & 5 yr old George J Ninnis. All children born Brighton, Sussex.
The marriage looks like Sep Q 1852: James Ninnes~Eleanor Nash at Steyning, Sussex - just outside Brighton.
A Mary Ninnes dies in Brighton March Q 1852.
So, if this sometime jeweller James Ninnes + wife Mary, who had 2 sons James & William, William Ninnes being your ancestor Raywalton... then I don't know about other siblings, but seems William had 3 half-siblings a darn sight younger than himself......
Those 3 children are still at home with widowed mum Eleanor, the 2nd wife of James, in 1871 in Lambeth (London/Surrey) - where a James Ninnis died June Q 1863 per FreeBMD. Eleanor followed in Mar Q 1876.
In 1881 young George is married to Mary, living in Battersea, London as a certificated elementary school teacher; William is living down the road in Croydon as a gardener, with wife Emma & children Sidney & Florence; Elizabeth married in Jun Q 1880.
George goes on to become a headmaster; son Herbert becomes a bank clerk.
Sue
I would dearly like that confirmation Raywalton, when you wake up, that the family we've found sounds like - or indeed you already know is ;D - yours.........
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Post by londoner on May 7, 2011 13:25:13 GMT -5
There are lots of Marriages in the Ancestry London Marriages & Banns for the offspring of James Walker Ninnes but the most interesting is: 22 Oct 1867 at St Peter's Paddington: James Walker Ninnes full age, jeweller father William Ninnes, Jeweller to Rhoda Davis full age, father James.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2011 3:38:54 GMT -5
Londoner and Sue - GREAT EFFORT! You have both put a lot of work into this and the results look good so a little feedback from our enquirer and then the hunt is on for confirmation of the parents of James Ninnes. I agree that the source of the Walker name will be most interesting and, hopefully, enlightening. CT
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Post by sue on May 8, 2011 5:14:47 GMT -5
Of the three possible baptisms at St Ives either the child of Nicholas & Ann or the child of James & Jane was buried 26 January 1794. In due course, perhaps there are clues in the marriage & descendants of the one of the two surviving James Ninnis - the one who stayed in St Ives, as opposed to the one who went off and married Mary Green? The James Ninnis that stayed in St Ives, mariner/fisherman, married Jane Care 8 May 1819, and had children Martha Care Ninnis baptized 18 Jan 1822, William Care Ninnis buried 29 December 1823 4 days old; then James baptized privately 6 January 1824, buried 18 January 1824 3 weeks old - so William & James were twins. Mother Jane was buried 7 January 1824. James Ninnis fisherman remarried 27 July 1824 to Martha Harvey; children Christopher Harvey 31 August 1827; James 4 December 1829; Grace 1 April 1832; Elizabeth 15 May 1835; Mary 28 July 1837; William c 1840 (baptized 3 November 1852); Christopher Harvey 1 July 1842 (buried 19 Sep 1844); Christopher 29 Nov 1844; Richard Harvey 11 June 1847. And my final thought: in 1851 there is an unmarried Jane Ninnis in Brighton, born St Ives c 1792. At 64 Trafalgar Street - half a mile from James Ninnis born St Ives, jeweller at 26 West Street in Brighton @ that time - the one who is Raywalton's ancestor. I'm thinking she may perhaps be his sister...... This might be the biggest clue to the parentage of Raywalton's James Ninnis born c 1794. Cos I can see only one suitable Jane Ninnis baptism: Jane Ninnis was baptized St Ives 22 Jan 1792, born 21 December 1791, to James & Jane Ninnis. Sue
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Post by sue on May 8, 2011 11:27:56 GMT -5
When I was a girl, James Walker was one of the biggest names in jewellery on the High Street in the UK (long since bought out by other chains.).................. I can see reference on the net of the firm having roots c 1823 in Streatham, South London.............. Just thought I'd mention it! Sue
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Post by londoner on May 8, 2011 12:19:46 GMT -5
I knew it rang a bell - well ferreted out ! I wonder if raywalton knows any more? I noticed that James Walker Ninnes will (1877) is available - the probate Index says that his widow Frances was granted probate and the effects were <£200.
However his son Frederik Benjamin ( or Benjamin Frederick - seen it both ways round) left £12,689 in 1927.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2011 12:35:32 GMT -5
Sue - I am inclined to agree in the possibility that Jane and James are siblings and, therefore, children of James Ninnis and Jane Cogar. I also agree that you may have identified the origins of the name 'Walker'. Nothing is 'absolute' yet but it all begins to look very promising. CT
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Post by londoner on May 8, 2011 12:46:31 GMT -5
I expect you have seen the London Gazette reference to JW's brush with bankruptcy - dismissed October 1856.
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