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Post by rachelb on Apr 26, 2011 10:09:21 GMT -5
Your head is reeling? Imagine mine!!!
Thank you for all the information - I am glued to this Forum now.
Yes, please. As I woman, I am really interested in the Stone (g-mother's) side of the family.
All this is incredible and marvellous. Thank you so much!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 26, 2011 11:02:45 GMT -5
And now for the Stone family ............... or perhaps I should say STONEMAN! There was a bit of indecision involved with this lot and that was followed with a little confusion and ended with them forgetting how to count! It all started ......................... Solomon STONEMAN married Grace CURREY 27th December 1834 at Illogan By 1841 they had four children. I don't know if there were any after that but Solomon Stoneman died in either 1844 or 1846 and I have not found his wife after that. The first child was Solomon and he is the only one of the four for whom I have not found a baptism. However ... In 1841 the Stoneman family were living at Illogan Church Town but by 1851 Solomon senior had died and Grace had either died or remarried. In the 1851 Census Solomon was calling himself Solomon STONE . At this time he was at Vestry Place, Camborne and apprenticed to Edward VINE, a master tailor, and his wife Ann, both age 60. In 1861 Solomon STONEMAN was a miner and boarding at Vyvyan Row, Camborne with the family of John and Ann VINE (presumably a son of Edward from the previous Census). John and Jane Vine had seven children at home ranging in age from 20 to 3 months old. The eldest of these children was Mary Ann. Solomon STONEMAN married Mary Ann VINE at Camborne 23rd January 1865 Having married as STONEMAN Solomon seems to have decided very quickly that he had a preference for STONE - maybe it was easier to write! But he either had lapses of memory or simply could never decide whether he should be STONEMAN or STONE. Solomon and Mary Ann had at least nine children and all births were registered as STONE except for the second child, William John, who was registered as STONEMAN. In 1871 the family was at Trelowarren Street, Camborne with children Emma J(ane) age 5, John (William John) age 3 and LUCRETIA age 10 months. In 1881 Solomon and his family were living at 15 Trelowarren Street, Camborne and by now Lucretia was being called Lilie. (John was William J this time.) In 1891 the family was at the same address as in 1881 BUT where again recorded as STONEMAN! In 1901 the family was still at Trelowarren Street and again known as STONE but there was an addition to the household. Thornley Stone, age 7, is recorded as a son but it is extremely unlikely that he was really a son of Solomon and Mary Ann - after all, Mary Ann would have been 53 when he was born! It is more likely that Alfred Thornley Stone (as he was registered) was the illegitimate son of eldest daughter Emma Jane or a child of son William John. BUT it is also a possibility that he might have been an illegitimate son of Lucretia/Lillie! (The baptism record or birth certificate would be required to answer that!) As I showed above Lucretia/Lillie was born in 1870 so her age after the 1881 Census seems to have been always recorded incorrectly and showed her to be younger than she really was. And that is about as good as I can do just for the moment. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 26, 2011 11:12:55 GMT -5
Rachel - always happy to help. It is unfortunate that many of the records we need for your families are not readily available at the moment so a fair bit of 'workaround' has to be done. After 1837 there is very little currently available for Illogan, Redruth or Camborne so the Census and FreeBMD are about all that we can use to try and piece the families together. What I have put together so far is as accurate as I can get it I think so always treat it as 'work in progress'. I have not been able to answer your original questions about addresses or burial details but at least you have a start. CT
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Post by rachelb on Apr 26, 2011 11:26:34 GMT -5
Thanks to you, I have a LOT more than what I started with! I can't thank you enough for all your help - and thanks to all who have helped here. Now I will try to find the burials: any clue where I should start looking?
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Post by sue on Apr 26, 2011 14:02:17 GMT -5
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Post by rachelb on Apr 26, 2011 15:27:00 GMT -5
That is wonderful! I will most definitely go visit the place in September. I can't believe how lucky it is that it wasn't damaged or demolished during the blitz. thank you so much Sue!
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Post by rachelb on Apr 27, 2011 17:42:14 GMT -5
William Henry was baptised at Crowan 20th February 1867 Frederick was baptised at Crowan 5th April 1869 Their parents were Charles and Mary Berryman of Cargenwen, Crowan but I am yet to identify them any further. CT Hi CT & All, A question regarding Charles & Mary Berryman. In the 1881 Census, they show as being in <Part Cargenwen> Crowan. With the mention that Charles was a tin miner & farmer of 14 acres. Could this be Cargenwyn today? Is it possible that they owed a farm there? I want to visit any places where my father used to go. He mentioned to my mother that he loved to go to his gmother's farm. She thinks it was near the sea though so maybe her recollection is wrong. I seem to remember him talking about seaside as well. Is there anyway to find out if any of my ggparents had a farm and where it would be today? Oh, my mother also mentioned that my gmother Lillie (Lucretia) Stone (Stoneman) Berriman remarried after my gfather's death and that she actually moved to Canada (British Columbia) to meet her fiance, a fellow originally from Camborne according to my Mom. Please let me know if my questions have no place here. I so appreciate all the help that I have received and don't want to bother anybody with my personal quest for the past
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 0:19:56 GMT -5
Rachel - just keep posting away with your questions and further information and we will try to keep everything to do with this family right here. I have seen the family at Cargenwen and Cargenwen Common in the Census mostly and the 'part Cargenwen' will no doubt be connected to one or other. (Spelling of the name will vary) Crowan is a land-locked Parish but you are never really far from the sea in that part of Cornwall. If he used to visit his grandmother's farm then he was very likely talking about Cargenwen. But the mention of being near the sea 'might' refer to where he actually lived. As for location - the Census gives a good idea of where they were and I you can find Cargenwen on the Ordnance Survey Maps. Northeast of Crowan Churchtown are the Cargenwen Reservoirs and in the area just north of them you will find Cargenwen Farm, Lower Cargenwen and Higher Cargenwen. In the area North of there you can find references to Poleo where I think Charles and Mary Berryman were at one time. And now for the part of your post that I really like! From 'British Columbia Marriage Registrations, 1859-1932' (FamilySearch) 11th May 1922 by Licence Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Alfred John Bosence, bachelor age 47, born England son of Alfred Bosence and Sarah Bosence Lillie Berryman, widow age 46, born England daughter of Soloman Stoneman and Mary Stoneman That means that William Henry Berryman died sometime between about the end of 1911 and 1922. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 0:35:45 GMT -5
A couple of days ago there was discussion on the possible death records for William Henry Berryman. At that time I located what appeared to be the death of Lillie Berryman in the Redruth R.D> It is obvious now that this was a different Lillie Berryman CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 4:57:26 GMT -5
Well - I now know a lot more about the Bosence family than I did before! Alfred John Bosence was the eldest of 10 children to Alfred and Sarah (nee Harris) Bosence of Camborne with Alfred senior having been born at Paul in 1849. And it seems that most of this family ended up in Victoria, British Columbia. I have found Marriage records (via FamilySearch) for six of the 10 children in Canada and I have also found Death records for Sarah and four of the children in Canada. There is a possibility that Alfred John Bosence died in BC in 1925 but his age then suggests a birth about 1880 whereas he was actually born in 1873. For that reason I am sceptical about that particular record. I am still trying to find Lillie. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 6:06:32 GMT -5
Okay Rachel - I think you might be looking a bit closer to home for some of the things you were originally looking for. But first of all I can tell you that Alfred John Bosence was born at Camborne in 1873 and he was the eldest child of Alfred Bosence and Sarah Harris who were married at Camborne 27th November 1872. I am not yet sure when Alfred and his family emigrated to Canada but I suspect that Alfred and at least two brothers were there before the 1901 UK Census. Alfred and brothers Richard James and William are missing from the 1901 Census in England so it is reasonable to assume that they had already left for Canada. The other child missing in 1901 was Annie who had been born in 1876 but it is possible she had married. The eldest of the daughters of Alfred and Sarah Bosence was Minnie who was at home in Camborne in 1901 but married in British Columbia in 1903. I did find an Alfred Bosence age 25 arriving at Liverpool from New York on August 3rd 1901. The age is not quite right but this might well have been Alfred John. Frederick and Thomas Bosence made at least two trips back to England but I have not yet found the family actually going to Canada. AHA - Minnie entered the US at Boston with her youngest siblings Mary, Thomas and Lillian. Mary was registered as Elizabeth Mary at birth but then married as Mary Elizabeth! She appeared in the Census just as Mary! They arrived in Boston aboard the 'Saxonia' 11th August 1903 just a month before Minnie was married at Victoria, British Columbia. (I hope this is not confusing everybody but I am trying to find any information I can that will help identify when Lillie Berryman arrived in Canada and to find a little more about her. ) I think I have exhausted the Immigration records for now so will check some other information before going on. In my next I will have some more interesting information for you and an explanation of what I said at the start of this note about searching a 'little closer to home'. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 6:29:26 GMT -5
Right - my further investigation shows that the records I need stop at 1932 so I cannot actually find what I need at the moment. However! Whilst idly hunting for further information on Lillie Berryman, preferably a death or burial record, I had to resort to some of my unorthodox methods. Having unsuccessfully tried to find her as Bosence or Berryman I decided to find out what would happen if I tried a search of British Columbia Death Records looking for someone with Solomon Stone or Stoneman recorded as their father. BINGO! ;D British Columbia Death Registrations, 1872-1986 (FamilySearch) Death Date - 28th April 1959 Death Place - Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Name - LUCRETIA HUDSONGender - female Age - 89 years Birth Date - 21st June 1869 (**) Birthplace - Cornwall, England Marital Status - Widow Spouse - Harry Hudson Father - Solomon StoneMother - VineSo - Lillie Bosence (formerly Berryman nee Stone) married again to Henry Hudson! There is no doubt this is her and you will note that her maiden name has again reverted to STONE! (remember that it was STONEMAN) when she married Alfred Bosence.) We know from previous work that her father was Solomon Stoneman (Stone) and her mother was Mary Ann VINE. (**) This birth date is not quite correct. I suspect the date itself is probably right but the YEAR is certainly not. Her birth was registered in the September Qtr of 1870 so 21st June 1870 is more likely the correct date. The other very noticeable thing here is that after counltess years she is once again known by her birthname LUCRETIA! So I think you will need to plan a trip to Victoria at some stage to look for the grave of Lucretia Hudson - your grandmother! (Still working on William Henry Berryman) CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 6:49:02 GMT -5
Rachel - a very simple question just arrived in my poor addled brain! When did your father leave England and arrive in Canada? We know that he was born in Camborne in 1907 and we now know that his mother married Alfred Bosence in BC in 1922. So if you can tell us when your Dad arrived in Canada then that will probably also tell us when Lillie/Lucretia arrived. And that then should tell us roughly when your grandfather William Henry Berryman died! CT
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Post by rachelb on Apr 28, 2011 7:48:33 GMT -5
Wow another flood of information! You are pretty terrific. I had been looking for gmother in BC without any luck. You found her! I didn't have Bosence, I certainly didn't know about Hudson!
Unfortunately, she is no closer to me now. It is about the same distance from Montreal (where I live) to British Columbia as it is to Camborne!
I don't know when my father came to Canada. All I know is that his eldest brother Charles Owen migrated to Chile, SA before my father left England. My father also lived in Chile for a while but he didn't like it there (he mentioned the weather, and his blond hair - apparently it made him stand out in South America and he didn't like that too much).
If gmother married Mr. Bosence in Canada in 1922, my father would have only been 15. I don't know about in those days, but today, he would have been with his mother. Dad had mentioned his father's death. My mom says that he died of the Spanish Flu and that after his passing, my gmother and the children went to live with my Berryman ggmother. I don't know if that makes any sense or how correct the information is. Mom doesn't know when Dad arrived in Canada but she also thinks he came over with his mother only to leave again to join his brother in South America.
I looked at the records online for SA and I found only a marriage for Charles Owen Berriman to Helene Sahr March 6, 1923 at St. James, Punta Arenas, on the website called patbrit.org, The British Presence in Southern Patagonia.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 9:14:09 GMT -5
Oh well, it was worth asking. I have now located the marriage of Charles Owen Berriman and Helene Sahr. That is another site I did not know about and although I cannot find any of my lot on there it is a very useful link to have. I have duly saved it to my Favourites. Still no sign of the family in the Passenger Lists but we must be closing the gap by now. The death record that Lamorna found looks like being the most likely for your grandfather. June Qtr 1917 Redruth R.D. Vol 5c Page 266 William H Berryman age 47 He would have been age 50 but I can see no other close match in FreeBMD Births. Finding where he is buried is the main problem at the moment. The information from your mother might well be correct. Charles Berryman had died prior to the 1901 Census and I would think it is his death recorded in the December Qtr of 1900 at the age of 55. In the 1901 Census your grandfather was living with his widowed mother at Albert Street, Camborne. Checking FreeBMD and it appears that Mary Berryman died in the December Qtr of 1928 at the age of 82. It is reasonable to think that Mary might still have been at Albert Street when your grandfather died so that would be where Lillie and the kids would have gone. Albert Street is only a short street and I expect it is still there and the Berryman house might even still stand. CT
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