Catherine Trewhella

[Jo]

I have today, I believe, found my first Trewhella, and the source of the middle names in my grandfathers line, 4 x g grandmother Catherine Trewhella who married John Hicks 26 March 1810 at Ludgvan

[Cornish Terrier]

Welcome to the Trewhella clan Jo!

I take it then that you are descended from Thomas Trewhella Hicks?

CT

[Jo]

Hi CT

Yes, Thomas Trewhella Hicks, then his son William, son Thomas, son Thomas (Percy), my mum and then me. It was my great uncle born in 1923 that also had the middle name Trewhella, my first little taster of the name, I didn't realise I would have to go so far back. Very satisfying to find the source and to be part of the gang! ;D

Jo

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Jo - I have updated my database as much as possible from your information but there is one small query.

We can deal with other in-depth information offline but the marriage of the parents of Thomas Percy Hicks poses a small problem.

If I have worked things through correctly then Thomas Percy was born in 1919 and his mother's maiden name was Roberts?

That being the case then Thomas Trewhella Hicks appears in the Index as Thomas P Hicks when he married.

The other problem is that his bride has not been Indexed in FreeBMD and I don't have the patience right now to search through every darned Roberts name to find a match!

If you could add and confirm those details it would be very much appreciated.

CT

[Jo]

Hi CT

Yes, Thomas Percival Hicks was born 14 April 1919, St Erth s/o Thomas Hicks (b 1885) and Mary Roberts. Thomas Percival was always known as Percy.

Thomas Hicks and Mary Roberts married 18 October 1916 in St Erth.

Sorry, I may be a bit slow on the uptake here, you also mention Thomas Trewhella Hicks. The only one of those I have at present is Catherine's son, born 1815. Percy's father I have as just Thomas, per the family bible, I do not have a birth cert for him. Percy's brother was William Trewhella Hicks, b 1923.

Please let me know what other info you would like.

Cheers for now

Jo

[Cornish Terrier]

Well Jo - you do have a little catching up to do!

There were actually THREE with the name of Thomas Trewhella Hicks

1815 - son of John Hicks and Catherine Trewhella
1881 - son of John Hicks and Alma Banfield
1885 - son of William Hicks and Elizabeth Roach

Both these last were grandsons of Catherine and the last, of course, is yours.

He was baptised as Thomas Trewhella Hicks but seems to have gone simply by Thomas Hicks after that.

I will try and get a few things together for you this afternoon.

CT

[Jo]

Ahhh, CT, thank you for that information, I have not seen my g grandfather's Thomas Hicks' baptism record.

I will proudly insert the middle name of Trewhella onto my g grandfather's name in my tree ;D I wonder why he never used it going forward?

I also have 1881 Thomas (uncle of the above) as just Thomas too, I will correct this also.

Better go now, the children are getting up, so had better devote some time to the living members of my family - speak later!
;D

[Jo]

Was looking at this all a bit too late last night and got myself in a bit of a pickle. The Thomas b 1881 I had was just Thomas married to Agnes Reed. Thought I had gone massively wrong so deleted her and all their children. This morning though, with a fresher pair of eyes, I have found the Thomas Trewhella b 1881, and Alma and their children, and added them. Just need to reinstate Agnes and her brood, probably later after a lie down! ;D

Jo

[Cornish Terrier]

Jo - I have done a little more work on this family tonight and I reckon I am about as worn out as a fellow who appears to be one of your ancestors!

Mary Roberts, wife of Thomas Trewhella Hicks, was born about 1888 or 1889 at Sithney daughter of William Roberts and Catherine Ann Dale who were married in 1888 possibly at Wendron.

I have not done anything about William Roberts yet except to find that he was buried at St Erth 14th July 1911 age 62 and that he had been born at Sithney.

Catherine Ann Dale was buried at St Erth 2nd September 1944 age 82.

Catherine Ann Dale was the THIRD of NINETEEN children born to Charles Dale by two different wives.

This is a difficult family to work with for more reasons than just nineteen children!

Lannanta and I worked on part of this a couple of years ago when trying to sort out the Quick families.

Charles Dale Eustice married Mary Quick Rosewall 20th December 1857 at St Ives

Charles Dale Eustice married Hannah Richards 29th May 1873 at St Ives

Charles sometimes went by Charles Dale, sometimes by Charles Eustice (var.) and sometimes by Charles Dale Eustice.

Of the children for whom I have found baptisms I think all were baptised as DALE but most were registered as EUSTICE.

So if you are looking for me you will find me in a nice little padded room!

CT

[Jo]

Hi CT

Just thought I'd stop by whilst my husband's birthday cake is cooling, before decorating!

Thank you for you vast efforts, and I think I may have found another Thomas Trewhella Hicks for you, but I'll get some more info together first, and let you have that after you have had a longer lie down!

I have got back to William Roberts, and White has been very kind enough to give me even more details on them ;D

One small correction though with regards to Catherine Ann Dale, she was the third child of TWENTY , of which two died in infancy.

I must admit, when I first found that out I did leave it for a while, before tackling. Through another cousin of mine discovered that there is a website for the Dale family. I've had a little bit of input in that site.

dalefamily.moonfruit.com/

Better get some icing done

Jo

;D

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Jo - I was not aware of the other child (Thomas) until today. He was born and died between Census years and his baptism does not seem to appear in any records for which I have access so it is probably little wonder I don't know about him.

And I have been looking at that site also. In fact I have spent the last MANY HOURS working on this.

And one of the things I am working in is corrections to the information contained on that site.

First of all these people have the wrong Richard and Jane Dale involved.

If the link to Carnstabba is correct then Richard and Jane had NO CHILDREN.
But if the link to the children is correct then Carnstabba is wrong.

I have a lot more work to do on this yet but you can be sure that the story has a number of errors including the detail about the Birth Certificate and that column being reserved for the father to sign so that he acknowledges he is the father.

In my opinion that is a pile of hogwash!

I have certificates from that era where the informant was the mother. In fact that was one of the children of my 2xgt-grandparents.
Another certificate has the informant of an illegitimate child as the 'occupier of the house' - in other words the Landlady.

In another example I have a Trewhella with two birth certificates.
On one the informant is the father of the child and it was issued at Ludgvan.
The other certificate was issued at Saltash and was signed by the child's grandfather who, for easons unknown to me, apparently had quite some dislike for his son-in-law.

It may have been 'usual' for a family member to be the Informant but it was certainly not necessary and I do not believe any column was 'reserved' for anyone special.

If that were the case then that column would have something to indicate that Only the Father were to sign and acknowledge!

Details of the father come under the Column labelled "Name and Surname of Father".

And if, as is being claimed, the father of Charles Dale was Edward Hain then why did Charles name his son JAMES Hain Dale?

In my opinion, if a Hain was involved with the paternity of Charles Dale then that man was more likely to have been Edward Hain's brother JAMES Hain who was born in 1817 at St Ives.

It must be remembered that Edward Hain was married with a number of children by 1838 and it should be noted that brother James did not marry until 1840.

With all of this story the person I am actually more interested in learning about at the moment is JANE EUSTIS!

Time for a rest I think!

CT

[Jo]

Oh gosh CT, please don't spend any time on this on my account; I'm sure that this is the Trewhella board too.

I did not read too much into the padding, in fact Charles Dale's life on my tree only begins with is marriage to my 3 x g grandmother Mary. I've just looked at the site to remind myself, and still don't get the bit how he acknowledges the birth without marking or signing the certificate. and how Elizabeth took it 10 days after to be registered? I suppose there is only one way to find out, and that's to order one. I'll let you have a copy too

There are 3 Charles Dales registered in Penzance around his supposed year of birth, and I have not had the inclination (as yet) to persue him further. I've not even looked at census records yet for him pre-marriage.

If I recall correctly I believe that there also appeared to be a couple of Mary Quick Rosewalls in St Ives at the time too, hence not gone any further back with her yet either. I had put them both to bed for a while

Jo

[Cornish Terrier]

Jo - too late for me to 'ease off' on this one!
It will probably warrent a thread of its own but I will wait until I have done some more work and probably also until after I have contacted the authors to inform them of the corrections that need to be made.

I believe you will find this Charles was registered in the September Qtr of 1838.

I need to see that certificate for a couple of reasons and had planned to ask if the authors of the Dale History had a copy that could duplicate and send me. But I don't know for certain that they have a copy - only that they make reference to it.

But I need to see the signiature of Elizabeth Dale to compare it with her signiature on a marriage record which will then hopefully confirm the identity of which Richard Dale was involved.

And I also need to see the date of birth and the date the birth was registered as that I think has an important part to play in getting this story corrected.

still don't get the bit how he acknowledges the birth without marking or signing the certificate.

That is one of the first parts of the story that I believe is a fallacy.

That particular column is headed 'Signiature, Residence and Description of Informant'.
It says nothing about 'the Father must sign here' and there is nothing to say who can or cannot register a birth.

In fact many births were registered by doctors or midwives, mother's, grandparents and even, as I can prove, by the Landlord!

If Richard Dale was not the father then there was no need for his name to be entered on the certificate at all so the fact that the name Richard Dale appears indicates that in all probability he was most certainly the father.

But all that will hopefully be described properly once I have finished my investigation and have spoken with the Dale researchers.

CT

[Jo]

Hi Roadrunner
Yes, I am aware of Ada and Eddy. Are you a Jenkin descendent?
Thank you

Joanne

[Cornish Terrier]

He was actually Thomas EDDY Jenkin.

Joanne - if you have any further details about Thomas could you let me know please.

The marriage record states he was the son of Richard Jenkin but ....

My initial interest in him is with the EDDY middle name.

CT