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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2007 10:37:34 GMT -5
But this IS Fun! Sometimes it can be difficult to actually find the 'fun' part. As for Land's End - that is basically the name given to describe the most South-Westerly point of the UK mainland. Land's End is (from memory) part of Sennen Parish and is certainly not a Parish of its own. I would really like to pursue this more tonight but am not concentrating as well as I might. Also have to do a second trip up town tomorrow to get the supplies for the Pub so another 'day is lost' for me. I need to carefully read your latest and compare notes with what I have already found. Will do my best to reply properly on this tomorrow.
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Post by rowen on Oct 27, 2007 7:51:38 GMT -5
I tried Sennen and do not find Richard born/chr. anywhere there. One source here in US says he was born in Lands End (28 July1848), but the other (30 Aug1847) does not give a place. He is the only child I have been unable to find a birthplace for which goes along with being unable to find William Osborn(e) Rowe and Mary Eddy Rowe in any 1851 census as yet. Have accounted for 1841 (St. Just), 1861, and 1871 (both St. Blazey) census.
Wherever they were in 1851 (or 1847-1851), they had Richard Osborn Rowe, so eventually I will find them.
After so many fruitless searches thru Virginia and eastern Kentucky (maternal side) I REALLY had hoped that this Cornwall bunch would have "stayed put". Not meant to be tho, so I will continue to examine each parish, one by one..........
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 28, 2007 11:56:15 GMT -5
I have just done a search of FreeBMD for the St Catherine's House Index of Births. I can find no trace of a Richard Osborn(e) Row(e) having a birth registered in England between 1846 and 1849. It is possible that the family was out of the UK for a while and then returned for a short time before ending up in the US. In this case Richard may have actually been born overseas. This is becoming interesting but I am sure we will find the answer. I can verify that Mary Ann TRATHEN married Richard ROWE in the St Austell R.D. September Qtr 1871 vol. 5c pg. 147 You will notice that the 'Osborne' part of the name is not present. We have more work to do. Please supply what you know about the other children of William Osborne Rowe and Mary (nee Eddy) and I will see if I can glean anything more from it. At this stage it would appear that Richard 'may' have not been born in the UK. Let's see what we can find.
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Post by rowen on Oct 28, 2007 20:20:45 GMT -5
This is what Margaret Owens, OPC St. Just gave me for the children of William and Mary: William Osborne bp. 19 Feb 1832 St Just in Penwith (m. Salina Jane Uren 1853) James bp. 16 Jun 1834 St Just in Penwith (m. Mary Ann Northey 1858) My direct who I am hanging on to for dear life.... William bp. 25 Jan 1836 St Just in Penwith (these appear to be twins who did not Mary bp. 25 Jan 1836 St Just in Penwith survive. Didn't know about them before she told me) Naboth bp. 15 Jan 1837 St Just in Penwith (d. 1841) Thomas bp. 26 Mar 1842 St Just in Penwith (BTW, I have found a Thomas in the 1880 MI census but the age doesn't match up. Is off by some 13 years. It says he was 25 and his wife Mary Jane was 21-both them and both sets of parent born in England. Isn't my direct because he would only have been 16 in 1880...don't know yet if this is the missing Uncle Thomas or not) I will take her sources over any US trees....although for the most part they are pretty darn close. The ()'s are mine, not hers. Now then the matter of Richard, our little later-in-life surprise for William and Mary...... Richard Osborn Rowe: US tree 1) says b. 28July 1848 Lands End; 2) says b. 20Aug 1847 England (no place listed) (m. Mary Ann Trathen 1871, and had four children in MI after losing their first (William b. 18Sept 1872) in 1874 on the way over. That is all I have for now. So, traipsing from parish to parish wasn't bad enough? Now they may have gone entirely off the reservation? Don't seem the type to vacation in Cannes. I would be more inclined to think Richard might have belonged to someone else in this "family". William Osborne II would have been 15, is possible..... Or maybe one of the 10,000 Eddy's. William could certainly have commiserated with the "base child" problem.... And. I have gotten completely off track here losing sight of the direct problem of Sarah (Mary) and William Osborn (himself). Going to bed to pout, and at my age it isn't a pretty sight.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 29, 2007 9:50:48 GMT -5
Seems we have a little dilemma happening here, do we not. I reckon that I will try and take another look at this in the next few days as it intrigues me. (Apart from that - I am damned tired and could not concentrate on it just now anyway.) Should you find anything new then let me know and I will otherwise try to see what more I can find.
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Post by rowen on Nov 2, 2007 18:12:46 GMT -5
Ok, just what does the flaming folder mean? What have I done now?
I have found the following and am going to try to follow up with them all, even tho Richard is not my direct.... Is there anyplace to get more info without having to send for all these certificates? I can't find much on the OPC sites. Will check all these parishes for the 1851 census for William O. and Mary (assuming they may have stayed put for 4-5 years).
Richard Rowe, Sept 1847 Penzance IX(?) p. 173 Richard Rowe March 1848 Redruth Vol 9, p 295 and Vol 9 p 251 Richard Rowe Dec 1848 St. Austell Vol 9 p 19 and Vol 9 p 15 and Richard Rowe Dec 1848 Tavistock Vol 9, page 469
I do know he and Mary Ann Trathen were married in St. Austell 3Aug1871 just three years prior to immigration. Not that it pins down St. Austell unless he went back to his birthplace for some reason and met and married her....whatever. Still trying...
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 3, 2007 12:24:29 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean. However - It apppears (at least so far) that William and Mary Osborne were not included in the 1851 Census. This suggests the possibility they were out of the Country at the time - but it is only a suggestion. If Richard was born in the UK (and if previous information on his birthdate is anywhere near accurate) then I would suggest he would be:- Of those you have listed this would be the only one possible and would mean that his birth was registered some months after the event. Will keep thinking about this and also look forward to any further clues that you might find. Ian
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Post by rowen on Nov 11, 2007 7:44:22 GMT -5
The flaming folder is on the far left under "Author". Perhaps means unread or unanswered?
At any rate, I am leaving Richard alone for now. I know he married Mary Ann Trathen and immigrated in 1874. After losing their first child on the crossing, they went on to have many more children and descendants in Michigan.
High on my Northey progress I am now going back to work on William Osborn(e) Row(e) and Mary Eddy Rowe as they are my directs and still MIA in England. Maybe I can find an Eddy (from the thousands) who can help me with William and Mary.
Not to mention the elusive naughty Mary (or Sarah) Rowe.
It is so hard to stay on the directs......what with the bruises from the brick walls and all.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 11, 2007 11:38:40 GMT -5
I have been bruised and battered many times over the last 28 years or so. Just checked and worked out your 'flaming folder' problem. If you look to the right of that little icon you may notice something of interest - and it took me a while to work it out also. That little 'flaming folder' indicates that a thread has gone to 'multiple pages'. You will notice just to the right that you will see what I mean. Place your cursuer over 2 or 3 or whatever until it is highlighted and click to bring up the details of that particular page. Will hopefully catch up more on this soon but will be monitoring progress as much as I can.
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Post by craig on Sept 30, 2008 12:19:33 GMT -5
Hi,
I have your Mary Ann Trathen in my family line. Interestingly (or bizarrely) both her grandmothers are called Rowe! (Mary Rowe and Elizabeth Berryman Rowe).
If this is of interest - let me know and I'll send more details.
Craig
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 30, 2008 17:17:14 GMT -5
Craig - I tried without success to help with this problem some time ago.
You say that Mary Ann Trathen's grandmothers were both of the ROWE clan?
You might be able to correct me if this is incorrect and add a little more detail for me at the same time so that I might get things a little more in perspective.
From information I received quite some time ago Mary Ann Trathen was born 6th September 1848 at St Blazey daughter of Jacob TRATHEN and Jane (nee NICHOLLS).
From IGI:- Jacob TRATHAN m. Jane NICHOLS 7th March 1835 at St Blazey
Apart from what has been discussed in this forum I know nothing else about the family.
Would appreciate some enlightenment and might be able to help further from there.
CT
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Post by craig on Oct 1, 2008 18:04:07 GMT -5
I realise that this is quite a long thread (which I haven’t read from start to finish), so I hope I’m not causing confusion here. I’m not sure if you have a definite connection with “your” Mary – and if you have maybe my following comments are irrelevant.
“My” Mary is recorded as “Mary A Trathen” in census data. I do not have baptism information for here, but the census records show her as born in Morvah in about 1853. Parents are Thomas Trathen and Ann Rickard. She appears in 1861 and 1871 census data, but is not with the family from 1881 census onwards.
As she is only the sister of my direct ancestor, I’ve never had the time to track what happened to her in terms of marriage, children etc.
If she might be an option for the Mary who marries Richard Rowe, let me know and I’ll go through my research notes and look at other data for this family. I’ll also let you have details of her “Rowe” grandmothers – Mary Rowe is baptised in Morvah 7th April 1793 and Eleanor Rowe is baptised in St Just 17th April 1806.
If she isn’t “your” Mary – apologies for the confusion!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 2, 2008 12:11:55 GMT -5
Don't worry about confusion Craig - part of the idea of this place is to unconfuse things that are confused. And it would appear now that we are discussing to completely different Mary Ann TRATHENs. My main interest in Mary Ann was through the 1857 marriage of Robert HARRY and Margaret Jane TREWHELLA at Penzance Registry Office. Their grandaughter Clara Elizabeth HOCKING married a Richard ROWE who was the son of Richard Osborne ROWE and Mary Ann TRATHEN. Most of the information on that side came from a distant relative in the States. Richard ROWE s/o Richard O and Mary Ann was born in the USA in 1881. I have three unfortunate problems here:- 1. Richard Osborne ROWE and Mary Ann TRATHEN were married AFTER the 1871 Census so I cannot check details of age and place of birth. 2. Their son Richard was born in the USA in March 1881 which was before the UK 1881 Census so the family was gone and I cannot check the details. 3. My transcripts of St Austell marriages goes as far as 1865 - six years prior to when the marriage occurred. Perhaps if someone is able to try and find them in the 1880 US Census it might shed some clues - they should be in Michigan and probably Houghton County. What does strike me as odd is that they waited ten years to name a son Richard and it is also difficult that I do not know details of any other children there may have been. In wonder just how much confusion is involved here. In 1881 there are three Mary A Trathens, one Mary Ann and one Mary Jane and there are only three Mary Strathens. Of the Trathen girls two are wives and the other three are born about 1858, 1858 and 1862. In FreeBMD Marriages there are four Mary Anns married in 1851 Redruth, 1852 Pancras, 1871 St Austell and 1899 Lambeth and the one at St Austell married Richard ROWE. None of the death records in FreeBMD match either of the two Mary Ann Trathens under discussion here. Craig - could you confirm the parents of Mary Ann TRATHEN please. I have found her in the 1861 Census - born Morvah about 1853 as you say. Also found the marriage in 1848 from FreeBMD. Would like some more details if would care to supply them, more particularly on the TRATHEN side for now so that I can add to my database of information for Morvah and it's families. I have also tracked down a little more on the initial subject of this thread and all so far appears to be as originally outlined so we are certainly looking at two different Mary Ann TRATHENs. I will be happy to work on both families as and when I find information. CT
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Post by craig on Oct 2, 2008 15:41:59 GMT -5
Hi CT,
A bit of background first - I started this research about 3 years ago and in the last 6 months I have been going over my initial findings to "verify" my initial work as, hopefully, I am now more proficient! The Trathen (sometimes Trathan, Strathan etc) is part of my early work which I have yet to double check!
So with that caveat, the family of Mary A Trathen is as follows:
Thomas Trathen Father Bn Morvah about 1828 Ann Rickard Mother Bn Cradock or St Just About 1831 (the daughter of Pascoe Rickard - as per our other thread discussions) Thomas Trathen Son Bptd. Morvah 20/5/1849 Mary A Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah about 1853 Elizabeth Trathen Daughter Bptd. Morvah 4/4/1856 William Trathen Son Bptd. Morvah 24/8/1858 Stephen Trathen Son Bn Morvah About1860 (my direct line) Margaret J Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1862 Alice Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1865 Anne Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1868 Ellen Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1869 Edith Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1871 Edith Trathen Daughter Bptd Morvah 2/6/1872 Elizabeth J Trathen Daughter Bn Morvah About 1874
I can take this Trathen family back to a number of previous generations and will happily send you what I have got. I can also send you my notes for this family (a chronology of sorts) for this family and previous generations. I can also provide details of subsequent generations - Mary's brother Stephen, was the Father of my Grandmpther, Vasilisa Trathen. They're quite an interesting family with lots of scandal - including a biganous gold miner!
One question - can I email this to you via this sight as transcribing it here will take ages (you cn tell I'm new to this site!)
regards,
Craig
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 3, 2008 6:27:28 GMT -5
Craig - the email bit can be done here without a problem and there are two ways to do it. In the taskbar just below the Flat of St Piran you will find an icon (4th from left) that says 'members'. Click on that and it will take you to what is now several pages listing all our members. Alongside 'Cornish Terrier' you will find my email address ready to 'click and go' so to speak. The quicker way can be done from this thread. Under my avatar on the left you should see a couple of small icons. Hover your mouse pointer over each and you will see, in my case, that one is for PM (private message) and another for email. Simply click on that and you will be able to email me. And I had noticed the variations to TRATHAN and STRATHEN. In fact when I was checking on the marriage of Thomas and Ann in FreeBMD I could only find the marriage of a Thomas Trathen to Ann EDDY. Didn't seem right so I tried searching the other way round and used Ann RICKARD. Of course Thomas was there as TRATHAN wasn't he! Best I continue my scan of messages now - but feel free to email or PM me any time. And if you like the 'scandal' part of things (and if you have not already done so) take a look in the QUICK thread and you will find a long but interesting note there. You will also find one that I posted yesterday in the TREWHELLA section. Keep those ideas flowing.
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