Elizabeth Uren b: abt 1797 Gwinear, Cornwall

[jerseejo2]

I have located only one Uren in my tree - but she doesn't seem to be from St. Ives..so I started a new thread..

Elizabeth Uren - born abt 1797 Gwinear, Cornwall; died June 12, 1885 Gwinear Down, Gwinear RSD and buried June 17, 1885 in Parish of Gwinear, County of Cornwall.
Married: Thomas Williams born abt 1797 of Gwinear Cornwall; died October 25, 1875 Redruth, Cornwall; buried October 27, 1875, Parish of Gwinear, Corwall.

children:
Elizabeth Williams b: abt 1821
Mary Williams b: abt 1822 married William Watters b: 1812 Gwinear
Jane Williams b: abt 1824
Thomas Williams b: abt 1826
Eliza Williams b: abt 1829
Susan Williams b: abt 1832
William Williams b: abt 1834
Colan Williams b: abt 1837
John Williams b: abt 1839

I also have more information on the Watters..Mary Williams Watters is my GG-grandmother..her daughter Elizabeth Jane Watters married Samuel Trevena of Redruth and come to the US (NJ) in 1866-1867

Joan

[Cornish Terrier]

Hello Joan - good thinking and it will minimuse confusion.

I am not sure exactly what you are after just yet but your information suggests you know little about Thomas and Elizabeth.

Based on that assumption I will offer a couple of things that I have managed to find. This will determine where you are at and we can work from there.

The family is easily found in the 1851 Census at Reawla Lane, Gwinear when only the four youngest children were at home.
From this I determined that Elizabeth was a little older than Thomas and it appears both were born at Gwinear as you mentioned.

A search from 1793-1803 for Thomas Williams gives only one possibility in IGI so that is a starting point and the names of his parents suggest he is the right man.

Thomas son of Colan and Mary Williams bp. 24th June 1798 Gwinear

Elizabeth Uren is a different matter and there are four entries for that same period.
Bearing in mind she was a little older than Thomas then we are probably looking at one of the first two entries although it must be considered that her baptism might have been delayed.

Elizabeth daughter of John and Elizabeth Uren bp. 5th March 1797 Gwinear

Elizabeth daughter of George and Elizabeth Uren bp. 2nd July 1797 Gwinear

Of these two I would favour her being the daughter of John Uren but this is based solely on the list of children you have supplied.

In that list there are four sons -
Thomas would have been named for his father
William -
Colan - certainly named for his grandfather
JOHN - 'possibly' named for Elizabeth's father

There was an Elizabeth Uren daughter of William baptised at St Erth in 1798.
St Erth shares a small border with Gwinear so this might also be a possibility although there appears to be no record to suggest this Elizabeth was not born at St Erth.

It is unfortunate that none of the children were given a second Christian name that might have helped positively identify their mother.

In the 1841 Census there are two additional members of the Williams household.

William Williams age 45
Mary Williams age 84

I would suggest that Mary was certainly the mother of Thomas and that William was probably his brother.
This might also be the source of the name of Thomas Williams' son.

At the moment I favour John and Elizabeth being the parents of Elizabeth Uren but that also adds something to think about.

Using IGI only for the time being I tried a search between 1783 and 1803 to see what marriages there were for a John Uren to someone named Elizabeth.

The result was just one!

John Uren married Elizabeth Jane 26th March 1796 at Illogan

There are no children baptised to this couple at Illogan and Elizabeth was the first child at Gwinear.

Keep an open mind until more substantial information can be found - but I think this is most likely the Elizabeth you are looking fore.

CT

[glorydee]

I live in Queensland, Australia and am researching my niece's paternal line. Her great great grandfather was Colin (or Colan) Williams, son of Thomas Williams and Elizabeth Uren. Colin (or Colan) married Eliza Ingram in Gwinear in 1859 and emigrated to Australia with their three older children in 1873. They subsequently had six more children including my niece's great grandfather. Colin died in 1901 and is buried in the old gold mining township of Ravenswood.

I have just viewed a web page that lists Elizabeth Uren as the one born to George and Elizabeth but I'm inclined to agree that her father was John, not George, given that none of her sons were named George. Is there any way of clarifying that?
Regards
Gloria

[Cornish Terrier]

Thomas Williams and Elizabeth Uren were married at Gwinear in 1819 so there will be no mention of the father's name in the marriage record.

The fact that there was no son named George does not necessarily mean that Elizabeth was not a daughter of George but if there were a number of sons a George might be expected.

To find the answer to your question I think is going to involve a bit of work.

First thing would be to check each Census record for Elizabeth to check for consistency in her age and then see how it measures with her age at Death. (Remember that ages in death records can be notoriously inaccurate!)

Once you have an approximate year from this (I see you have 1797) then allow a couple of years either side and then see just how many Elizabeth Urens there are.

Presumably all Census records have her birthplace as Gwinear but if there are a couple of other Elizabeth Urens baptised in the right time-frame then it would be a good idea to check the baptism record to see if any were 'of Gwinear'.

From there you need to trace each of these girls and eliminate them one by one.

Another thing to look for in the Census would be any possible relatives who might have been with the family on Census night.
Sometimes you can be lucky and get a nephew or niece in the household and that can then give clues to the correct parentage.

Another one for me to think on.

CT

[glorydee]

Thank you for your help. Yes, they had four sons, but no George. When Thomas and Elizabeth's son Colin, married, his nine children included three sons with familiar names, John, Thomas and Colin but again no George so that name doesn't seem to have been used through that line at all. Frustrating, isn't it?

I'll check with the census reports but since there were only four months between the baptisms of the two Elizabeth Urens, both of which took place in Gwinear, it may not help a great deal especially, as you say, that exact ages in those days were notoriously hit-and-miss.

With later census reports it becomes a bit easier because of children being named after aunts and uncles as well but it's more 'iffy' with earlier records.

I'll start working backwards and see what I come up with. Thank you once again.

Gloria

[Cornish Terrier]

Gloria - play around with the information a bit and do a bit of hunting to see what can be found.

There are some records for Gwinear that have been transcribed for the OPC site so hopefully this will cover at least some of the children of Thomas and Elizabeth.
What we need to look at is the 'abode' at the time each child was baptised as that might give us some clues that will help identify the correct Elizabeth.

Keep updating your progress here and any thoughts or queries you have just ask and I will see if I can find the answers.

Nothing is impossible ..... it just gets a little difficult sometimes.

CT

[glorydee]

Thank you once again. This makes it so much easier.

Gloria

[kanman58]

Hi Joan
I have been doing some research into the Cornish side of my family and it looks like the Elizabeth Uren that you have been looking at is my ancestor's sister. My GGGGrandfather is James Uren (b 1809 in Gwinear) who is Elizabeth's brother. Their parents are, as far as I can make out John and Elizabeth Uren, who had 11 children all born in Gwinear.
I hope you are still searching and making progress.
Keith