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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 24, 2011 7:26:41 GMT -5
Not being 'dense' at all - merely 'dogged'.  I think there are two items you should keep near the top of your 'wish list' for this problem. You need to see the original entries in the PRs for:- 1. the 1808 marriage at Mylor between John Martin and Alice Williams 2. the 1811 marriage at Gwennap between James Pascoe and Alice Martin If you could somehow manage to get a look at those you would be able to see for yourself any and all other information, scribble, smudges etc. in the records as well as the names of Witnesses. There just might be something there that will help. Of course - there might not be anything to help also!  CT |
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Post by rowena on Jan 27, 2011 5:54:53 GMT -5
Dogged I am, until the wrist, hand and arm give out.
Apologies for the silence. I've had to lay low for a little with an old computer injury.
Still working on this, and have been chasing up various OPC's. A process of elimination happening. I think you're correct CT. I do need to view the original records for the 2 marriages below, and am trying to follow that up.
Also, have been following up James and Alice Pascoe's children.
Daughter Rebeckah Pascoe bpt.1812 Gwennap, married Philip Oats 1 May 1830, Redruth. he has 3 different places of birth given in 1851, 61, 71 Census.
1851 Census; Address North Downs, Treleigh, Redruth; Philip Oats, Head, 42, Copper Miner, born Kenwyn; Rebecca, wife, 39, b. Redruth; Philip 20, Copper miner, b. Redruth; Susan 18, Labourer in Copper Mine, b. Redruth; Louisa 16, Labourer in Copper Mine, b. Redruth; Christiana 14, Labourer in Copper Mine, b. Redruth; Mary 12, scholar, b. Redruth; Jane 10, scholar, b.Redruth; Elizabeth 8, scholar, b. Redruth; William 5, scholar, b. Redruth; & Joel 3 mon, b. Redruth.
1861 Census: address: Wheal Gilbert, Redruth; Phillip Oats, Head, 55, Copper Miner, born Gwennap; Rebecca, wife, 49, b. Gwennap; dau. Elizabeth 19, Mine Girl, b. Redruth; son William 15, Copper Miner, b. Redruth.
The 1871 Census shows them living at Gilbert Coombe, Treleigh, Redruth; Philip Oats, head, 66, Miner out of employment, born St Agnes; Rebecca, 60, born Gwennap; and dau. Elizabeth 27, Mine labourer, b. Redruth.
Rebecca died aged 65, Jul-Sep 1877, Redruth RD. Philip died aged 72, Apr-Jun 1877, Redruth RD.
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Dau. Christiana Pascoe bpt.1816 married Thomas Willoughby Jan-Mar 1840, Redruth RD.
1841 Census lists them living at Tram Road, Illogan; Thomas Willoughby, 20, Copper Miner; Christianna, 20; Thomas 1; and Jane 1 month.
The 1851 Census records their address: Nanceduke, Illogan; Thomas Willoughby, Head, 33, Miner, born Illogan; Christiana, wife, 34, Miners wife, born Illogan; son Thomas 11, Mine boy, b. Illogan; son William 10, mine boy, b. Illogan; son John 9, b. Illogan; son Oliver 7, scholar, b. Illogan; dau. Louisa 4, scholar, b. Illogan; son Charles 2, b. Illogan; and dau. Lydia 1 month, b. Illogan.
Not in the 1861 Census, and the family oral history has them enigrating to the USA.
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James Williams Pascoe bpt. 1819 married Elizabeth Thomas (havn't been able to find this marriage)
The 1851 Census shows their residence: None, Village of Portreath, Illogan; James Pascoe, Head, 32, Coal Porter, born St Austell; Elizabeth, wife, 33, At Home, born Bickley, Devon; dau. Elizabeth 7, scholar, b. Illogan; dau. Mary J. 5, scholar, b. Illogan; son William J. 2, b. Illogan; and son John H. 4 months, b.Illogan.
Emigrated on an unassisted passage, arriving Port Melbourne, Victoria, March 1861, on the ship Dover Castle: James Pascoe 41; Elizabeth 41; Mary Jane 13; William James 11; John Henry 9; and Martin 1.
Settled in Terang, Victoria, where James died in 1917, and Elizabeth in 1906.
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Martin Prist Pascoe bpt. 1821, married Sarah Kinsman 1841, Redruth.
The 1851 Census residence was Wheal Rose, St Agnes in the Parish of Mt Hawke: Martin Pascoe, Head, 30, Copper Miner, born St Agnes; Sarah, wife, 30, Copper Miner's wife, b. St Agnes; dau. Elizabeth 9, b. Redruth; son Joseph 6, b. Redruth; son martin 5, b. Redruth; dau. Mary Ann 2, b.St Agnes; and dau. Louisa 10 months, b. St Agnes.
Martin Pascoe sailed on the ship "Kent" 27 Oct 1866 from Plymouth, arriving Port Melbourne 13 Jan 1867. The rest of the family arrived the following year.
I havn't yet found any deaths or marriages for their siblings:
Mary bpt. St Austell (not in 1841 census with family)
Jane bpt. 1824 Redruth (last sighting in 1841 Census with parents)
Louisa bpt 1826 St Agnes (not in 1841 Census with family)
William Nicholas bpt. 1829 Illogan (died bef. 1832, no burial found, Illogan checked)
William Nichols/Nicholas bpt. 1832 Redruth (last sighting in 1841 Census with parents)
Bennett born c.1833/4 (last sighting in 1841 Census with parents)
Anf that's all my typing arm will let me do tonight.
Cheers, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 27, 2011 7:20:27 GMT -5
Rowena - I may have to read your information again but for the moment I may have located (Index) the marriage of James Williams Pascoe and Elizabeth Thomas. I suspect possibly that FreeBMD does not have this particular Year and Qtr 100% complete.  But if records show that they do have it complete then perhaps a head should roll somewhere!  March Qtr 1843 Redruth R.D. Vol 9 Page 264 - the following names appear Bishop Elizabeth Cartneel Thomas CARTNELL Thomas COLLINS Jane JOHNS Zacharias Pascoe James Richards Emma Richards John A couple of things to look at with this list which is a Complete list of the names appearing in FreeBMD. 1. There are 8 names (as there should be) 2. One name is duplicated (Thomas CARTNELL and Thomas Cartneel) 3. Including Thomas Cartnell/Cartneel there are FIVE MALES named 4. There are only THREE FEMALES named Obviously something wrong here. (Fairly sure they did not have same sex marriages back then! ;D) Once I found this I decided to have a look at Indexed records for the same Year and Qtr using Ancestry because I am then able to view the images and then look at them Page by Page. MARRIAGES REGISTERED IN JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH 1843 THE-THO (physical) page 278 THOMAS Elizabeth Redruth 9 264The image is extremely clear and there is absolutely no doubt about this entry. The missing name from FreeBMD therefore is Elizabeth Thomas and that now gives a match with 'James Pascoe'.  That's gotta be a problem! Is it similar to trying to type with the point of the elbow? I actually use the fingers on the end of my arms when I am typing and then so that there are no arguments I try to allow the fingers on the end of the other arm to participate. That way the load is shared more-or-less equally. SORRY ROWENA - I could not resist! ;D Hope the injury heals soon 'cos I know what it is like. I will try and read your notes again and see if I can find anything more that is constructive.  CT |
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Post by rowena on Jan 31, 2011 20:27:18 GMT -5
That's fantastic CT,
Thank you for cross-checking and sorting that out. I'm now about to email FreeBMD, to review and sort it out.
I've been having an email conversation with the new Redruth OPC about searching for records of James and Alice Pascoes' children in Redruth. Not good. Quite a large chunk of records were never filmed...
Quote, "Unfortunately I don't have any records from 1837-1900. I am trying to find out why they haven't been filmed because they are vital to me as OPC. There seems to also be a gap from 1717-1800"
So, that's a bit ho-humm, and brings some research to a screeching halt.
Ok, I am now looking for a woman who married a grandson of James and Alice.
Joseph James Pascoe b. 27 Mar 1845 Redruth, married Mary Hocking in Ballarat in 1872. Her parents may be a Thomas Hocking and Elizabeth Jeffrey/Jeffery. Mary Hocking is supposed to have been born c.1843 in St Agnes. I havn't sighted the marriage record, so this is 2nd hand. (no bapt's on IGI or OPC, or marriages for Thomas Hocking and Elizabeth)
I did find a possible 1851 Census (FreeCEN). Address: Vogue Beloth, Illogan; Thomas Hocking, Head, 32, Copper Miner, b.Gwinear; Elizabeth, wife, 30, b. Gwinear; dau. Mary 9, Copper Ore Dresser, b. Gwinear. same family still seem to be there in 1861.
The Mary Hocking's born St Agnes in the 1851 & 61 Census, with a father Thomas, show his wife as a Johanna, resident in St Agnes.
Could anyone help this one? I couldn't find a shipping record into South Australia or Victoria for Thomas or Mary Hocking. But she is in Victoria by July 1872, when she married Joseph James Pascoe. She died in 1921, and her death record notes her father as Thomas Hocking, mother unknown.
Hopefully someone has already looked at the Hocking families.
Kind regards,
Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 1, 2011 7:10:25 GMT -5
Rowena - you do tend to pick the hard ones! Redruth is definitely a problem and the OPC is correct from what I have been able to find. However, the Redruth records to 1812 are certainly available in Published Transcripts. I have a copy (in PDF) of the records covering 1560-1716 which are available as Free Download. From memory there are two further volumes covering the period to 1812 that are, as far as I know, still available for purchase. I know that Pre-Civil Registration Marriages are available from the CFHS as I have a copy. Other information for Baptisms and Burials is also available from CFHS as far as I recall but may be in 'booklet' form rather than PDF. Unfortunately I can't check that at the moment as I am having difficulty connecting to the site. All is not lost! CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 1, 2011 7:24:21 GMT -5
Rowena - not sure if it is heat affecting my PC or other factors being involved but I cannot get to the relevant page of the CFHS Catalogue to check on availability of their Transcripts for Redruth at the moment.  But I think you will find St Agnes even worse!  When the FamilySearch site had Cornwall PRs available online I had a look at St Agnes and was Totally Gobsmacked!! (I think that is the term used ) The amount of Images per Register was astounding and probably averaged around 250 for a lot of them. But more importantly was the fact that the registers were divided into very much smaller year-spans than what I had been accustomed to. For CFHS use this link - www.cornwallfhs.com/ and then click 'Online Shop' and follow your way through to find what is available for Redruth and for St Agnes. Whatever is available will be only Indexed Transcripts but at least it is something. CT |
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Post by rowena on Feb 18, 2011 21:19:18 GMT -5
Hi Folks
Now lookig for a death for a grandchild of James and Alice Pascoe.
Mary Ann Pascoe was born 17 Mar 1843, Redruth to parents Martin Prisk Pascoe and Sarah or Sally (nee Kinsman). She is supposed to have died at 14 months abt. May 1844, in Redruth. I can't find anything matching on FreeBMD.
Would anyone be able to somehow check this death for me.
Thank you, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2011 23:11:20 GMT -5
Rowena - I seem to have run out of resources without being to find any record of this death/burial. I see that IGI shows it as May 1844 but if that is the case then it would seem the event was not registered. I have only just finished checking the images for the May Qtr 1844 Death records and there are only three Pascoes recorded - Christian at Redruth and Jane and Mary at Falmouth who appear to have been either siblings or mother and daughter based on the page numbers. The 1851 Census shows a Mary Ann age 3 in the family of Martin and Sarah and she is still there in 1861 age 13. Without the Redruth (and possibly St Agnes) records I think we are stuck for the time being. I could also find no record in the West Briton. CT |
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Post by rowena on Feb 19, 2011 7:37:42 GMT -5
Thanks CT. At least you've confirmed I can't go any further on this one.
Cheers, Rowena
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Post by rbevans75 on Aug 24, 2011 7:01:41 GMT -5
Hi CT & Rowena,
Strangely enough I came across this family while I was looking at WorldConnect and have been looking at them myself. I too am trying to sort out the PASCOE families of Sithney and am trying to put them into family groups. Naturally I have been reading the exchange between you with great interest. This particular tree had the parents of Richard PASCOE who married Hannah RUTTER as William PASCOE and Ann JAMES, however on trying to discover where the WILLOUGHBY family went after the 1851 Census I found yet another tree with the same family on it and the parents of Richard PASCOE were named as William PASCOE and Ann WATTERS. I think what initially drew me to the William PASCOE/Ann JAMES tree was there was an Ann PASCOE bn c 1759 - someone I had just looked at and have followed to a certain extent and I wondered if it may have been her. As far as I can tell her parents appear to be a William and Ann and given there were about three families with William and Ann as parents they are a bit hard to sort out. To be honest I am finding the female PASCOE's slightly easier - at least the ones who married. I don't want to put this on the backburner either (and yes I am also a little dogged) now that I have begun looking at it, so will plod along with it. One thing I have noticed is the Richard PASCOE who is listed as being married to Hannah RUTTER on the World Connect tree was baptised in Sithney. There is a Richard PASCO baptised 25 Sep 1763 son of William and Ann. All I can say is this family (Richard & Hannah's) moved around a lot!
Regards,
Raewyn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 24, 2011 13:02:22 GMT -5
Hi Raewyn - I hope you are being careful and treating any of those Online Family Trees as 'sources for clues' rather than for legitimate information! I have also been looking at that resource for another query and, as usual, I am finding much of the information very suspect.  It is claimed that the person I am looking for was born at Bridgewater near Bendigo in Victoria yet I can find no record of this person, his birth or anything to do with his parents anywhere in Victoria, South Australia or New South Wales. Oh yes, this source also says the subject was born in 1856 yet other information just posted suggests he was born around 1867 or 1868. The one consistency seems to be that he was supposed to have been born in Victoria. So tread carefully and you will get to the bottom of your Pascoe problem. CT |
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Post by rbevans75 on Aug 24, 2011 23:09:36 GMT -5
Hi CT I am definitely treating any online tree as a source of clues more than anything. I have learnt to look for other sources to verify information, when I have found it on online trees. As I mentioned the only reason I looked on WorldConnect was to look for Ann PASCOE bn c 1859. I agree with Rowena the information prior to Richard PASCOE who married Hannah RUTTER is suspect. I am only prepared at this point to do as I did with Ann and that is to make a note of possible parents. It is an interesting exercise trying to sort the families out however and it has been a pleasant diversion from my usual research. And I do know that am going to have to look further afield - and tread carefully Raewyn |
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Post by shaziz on Apr 6, 2021 16:17:17 GMT -5
Dear Folks,
I've been searching for a James Pascoe who was the twin of William Pascoe, bapt. 1786 Helston, to parents Richard Pascoe and Hannah Rutter. I think I've found him in the 1851 Census, address Serins Croft, Treleigh, Redruth:
James Pascoe, Head, 62, copper miner, born Wendron, with
Alice Pascoe, wife, 63, born Gwinear.
I have also been looking into this family group today based on DNA Matches.
On paper research I am a MARTIN and have DNA links to Josiah Martin (1820) and his wife Elizabeth Barrett (also linked to Williams) of St. Feock. The Barrett side has further DNA matches however I am struggling to find connection to David and Ann Martin of Perranarworthal, supposed parents of Josiah MARTIN. I do have DNA links to his sister Sophia's descendants so I know I am on the right track to that point.
After doing a DNA Clustering Chart, I have found is I do have is many matches to Thomas H WILLOUGHBY and Christiana PASCOE via 4 of their children, but also Oliver a sibling of Thomas WILLOUGHBY, the children of Oliver WILLOUGHBY and Phillipa GROSE.
The Willoughby/Grose line also appears by various trees to go back to PASCOE. This group has not come up in any of my paper research lines in the last 30 years.
I agree with others there seems to be some discrepancy in the WILLIAMS/MARTIN theories, and I found 6 Children of James and Alice Pascoe starting with Rebeckah in 1812 and ending with Jane 1824 at Redruth. I too suspected the 1851 census entry of birthplace for Alice Pascoe could easily have either been transcribed or misheard when taken and could be Gwennap rather than Gwinear.
One witness at the Wedding of James and Alice was William James WILLIAMS, so again this may be relevant given some records state Alice is daughter of Rebeckah KNEEBONE (Williams).
Much work is to be done and I am hopeful DNA will help resolve it.
Cheers Sharron
sharron.l.fry@gmail.com (NZ) |
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